Let's See Who's Been Banned and WHY

I've noticed there's been a lot of member banning recently. All very well but what I want to know is: what got someone banned, and why (maybe it would help me tred the line sometimes).

Trouble is when I look at a band members recent threads I can't really see much wrong with them. Now maybe this is because...
1. People have a habit of being banned for replying to someone else’s thread as opposed to their own.
2. ATS censors the offensive content
3. I'm being thick and have no understanding of what constitutes a banning.

Anyway I would really like a banned members section containing...
1. List of most recent banned members
2. There final offending post-thread (even if it has to censored at times, say an obscene web link). Oh a total history of offences might be really cool.
3. Room for Moderators comments-explanation about why this member was banned.

This would be really interesting and would probably also help reduce the number of banning’s.

Also its a shame that so many banned members had so many ATS points. I can't help but think that so and so's comments would have fitted into a given thread nicely.
Therefore is there any way (in some circumstances) ATS points could contribute to lesser penalties say only 6 months worth of banning as opposed to forever?

Furthermore though an "ATS court" would be a stupid waist of time that's far too open to abuse, I wonder if a members banning could be rated by the ATS audience (or would this be going a bit too far?).

So what do you reckon about these ideas?


[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

Originally posted by Liberal1984

I've noticed there's been a lot of member banning recently. All very well but what I want to know is: what got someone banned, and why (maybe it would help me tred the line sometimes).

Well all sorts of things can get you banned you could read the Terms and Conditions if you're interested.

Trouble is when I look at a band members recent threads I can't really see much wrong with them. Now maybe this is because...
1. People have a habit of being banned for replying to someone else’s thread as opposed to their own.
2. ATS censors the offensive content
3. I'm being thick and have no understanding of what constitutes a banning.

Anyway I would really like a banned members section containing...
1. List of most recent banned members
2. There final offending post-thread (even if it has to censored at times, say an obscene web link). Oh a total history of offences might be really cool.
3. Room for Moderators comments-explanation about why this member was banned.

Seems like it'd create drama, I mean why give attention to the trolls? Not saying all that were banned were trollers but I'm sure there was a semi-decent reasoning. ATS is about conspiracy subjects not legacy of banned members.

This would be really interesting and would probably also help reduce the number of banning’s.

Interesting or Good for Gossip?

Also its a shame that so many banned members had so many ATS points. I can't help but think that so and so's comments would have fitted into a given thread nicely.
Therefore is there any way (in some circumstances) ATS points could contribute to lesser penalties say only 6 months worth of banning as opposed to forever?

Many banned members are let back but they've come under different names and usually change their ways, as for points? oh well

Furthermore though an "ATS court" would be a stupid waist of time that's far too open to abuse, I wonder if a members banning could be rated by the ATS audience (or would this be going a bit too far?).

So what do you reckon about these ideas?

While that'd be cool and all it'd just create board drama that's just the way forums act you know? Seems like just a waste of time in the end. And finally the board is privately owned and we aren't charged to use this board so I guess if the owners wanted to ban someone for typing in pink that's their right.


I just think that it'd be silly to devote that much effort into something like that which will only spark soap opera-esque drama which never brings any good.

You came here for the subject matter no?

If you really need to know who's been banned, use the 'MEMBER' button, and browse through there.

As for why, it's probably not in the best interest of the board to post that information. None of our business, anyway - imo

just my $0.02

I have actually thought this myself only because ive been here a short time and have noticed a couple of people ive conversed with have been banned and they havent seemed at all obnoxious to me. (expletive) hope that doesnt mean i may be next. But i think it would involve alot more work on the part of administrators and mods, when they probably have enough on their hands as is..

I have noticed that many banings are people who oppose the popular opinion of the board and do not buy into the party line. What I mean by that is if you dont support the political and social views, some of the mods just seem to ban you rather than debate you. I have seen it happen quite a bit.

One thing ive learned is never object to any type of warnings or attempt to defend yourself or your position. just forget it and let them get that ego trip that they can supress what you say for the simple fact they dont like it.

I have had some of my threads moved off the board to some obscure place or trash them completely because they didnt like the way I said something.
only to see repeat threads of the same (sometimes more than one thread).

I am in no way complaining of the current situation as I remember the time when member banings were quite rampant.


I will probably get a major warning for this post so I will stop there. Just remember freedom of speech doesnt exist on the board.

Be aware that banning is the very LAST option for dealing with members. ATS is the best community on the Internet, period, and admin have always strived to make it an enjoyable and productive place to be for all, to welcome all viewpoints, and most importantly to value each and every member for the investment of knowledge that they bring here. Hence, no one is banned without good and clear reason, and without being in direct, deliberate, and continued violation of the T&C. Only when every, single, other possible option has been tried and exhausted will a member be permanently banned. There are few exceptions to this, such as when members start posting outright racist hate garbage from the very first post. Such threads will end up in the trash where they belong and the member won't be seen again.

If a member was banned and you can't seem to figure out why, you can pretty much guarantee that there have been major happenings going on behind the scenes, via U2Us; emails; intentionally disruptive, attacking, or libelous activities both internal (usually trashed) and external to the site; and sometimes even direct hacking attacks. Often when members have a 'meltdown', they present an angelic face to the board while spitting bile and hellfire behind the scenes.

Explaining the reasoning behind every banning does nothing but create huge, HUGE drama. If I recall correctly, a long time ago admin did a trial run with a system such as you are suggesting, and the result was just as expected: Drraaaaaaaaaamuh~~! Drama only serves to make us forget the reason why we are all here, to turn the focus away from the content, and and to turn the membership in on themselves like a snake eating it's own tail. Websites that succumb to the lure of "board drama" always die. The few that don't are not places that the average ATSer would want to hang out anyway.

ATS is not about drama, it is about what each and every different member brings to the site, the exchange of that information, and the search for truth. If you want drama and one-line posts, then GLP might be more to your tastes. If you want to learn and to share information that the average couch-potato may not be aware of, then stick around, but learn to trust that the site admin and staff will manage the site with that very goal in mind, just as they have for the last 9 years.

Now get posting!




[edit on 2006-4-20 by wecomeinpeace]

I find it odd that people who find the Admin and Mods to be so "heavy handed" and unfair continue to come here quite often. Are there no other Message Boards? I know this one is pretty good, but if your being treated so unfairly surely you'd give up and head to a different forum?

I don't know......I don't agree with some of the T&C, but I want to stay here so I don't break them, and I don't feel victimized. If I want to talk about something I shouldn't, I can post it elsewhere. IT seems daft getting worked up because you're doing something the mods don't want you to and your being reprimanded for it. Everyones a victim...........blah :w:

On Topic: I'd love a list of recently banned members and reasons for banning, but it would be just because I love seeing drama I don't think it'll ever happen.

[edit on 20-4-2006 by chebob]

I have been skimming through a ton of old posts to apply tags, and I too have noticed quite a lot of people whom have been banned. When you really look there are enough to make you do like so: !

*Edit*

Yeah I'll admit that I didn't even read the T&C. However, I have posted on probably 40-50+ forums, and I don't recall being banned on any of them. So... I must be doing something right aye?

I looked through some of the last posts that the banned people made and more often than not they aren't anything offensive. So, I am assuming that they were addressed by U2U and either got into an argument there, or just flat out declined to conform and were banned on the spot.

[edit on 4/20/2006 by Rizin]

Well, firstly we will not be creating a dedicated section to analysing banned members. It's not something we want, not to mention it draws away from the purpose of this website. ATS is a place to discuss alternative topics such as aliens, secret programs, conspiracies, etc.. I would like to think people come here to enjoy themselves and take part in threads they find interesting. Unfortunately, people come here for no reason other than to discuss ATS itself, and the things they do not like about it.

I think I can answer most of the points raised simply from XphilesPhan's post.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have noticed that many banings are people who oppose the popular opinion of the board and do not buy into the party line. What I mean by that is if you dont support the political and social views, some of the mods just seem to ban you rather than debate you. I have seen it happen quite a bit.

This is not true. Think about it, if everyone agreed with each other about everything, there would be nothing to discuss or debate!

We do not ban people for disagreeing with others, and mods certainly don't ban people for holding a different personal view then them about a subject.

Banning is the extreme end to a situation we can't resolve through U2U, warning or e-mail conversation. Bannings are occuring more so now due to the sheer amount of racially-charged posts from banned members returning under new usernames.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
One thing ive learned is never object to any type of warnings or attempt to defend yourself or your position. just forget it and let them get that ego trip that they can supress what you say for the simple fact they dont like it.

Warnings are exactly as the word says, a warning. These are issued for an issue that is against our guidelines or T&C. If a person believes a warn is unjustified, U2U the staff or use the Suggestion box. We are certainly not power-hungry. We listen to all complaints, queries, disagreements and so forth. Hence that is why we have so many means of contacting the staff to resolve issues as quickly as we can.

We don't suppress member's comments unless it is a violation of the T&C, in which case the relevant post may be edited to remove abuse, swearing, vulger imagery, etc. - or the topic removed in extreme circumstances.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have had some of my threads moved off the board to some obscure place or trash them completely because they didnt like the way I said something.
only to see repeat threads of the same (sometimes more than one thread).

Well I can't personally remember any of these instances, but perhaps you posted something against the T&C (which are in place for the smooth operation and safety of our members) or you posted a repeat topic of a subject already on the board.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I am in no way complaining of the current situation as I remember the time when member banings were quite rampant.

You're not complaining?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I will probably get a major warning for this post so I will stop there. Just remember freedom of speech doesnt exist on the board.

Why would you get a warning, you are expressing your personal views about ATS. That is what this forum is meant for.

I hope I have answered most of your queries. If you have more questions, let me know and I'll answer them the best as I can.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Just remember freedom of speech doesnt exist on the board.

With freedom of speech comes responsibility.
You ARE free to say whatever you want but you also must be ready to face the consequences of it.
There is no true freedom of speech without any consequences whatsoever anywhere, it is just that we take some restrictions as "normal" because they have been part of our culture for so long.
Example: if you say "kill all Jews", it will get you banned on most normal message boards and in all likelihood in serious trouble with the law in some european countries. Same goes for racist posts because racism has been clearly defined as such for decades now.
Other things are not so clearly defined, but are accepted as part of civilized society. Some are not defined at all and when you make a big deal out of it, it might create a crisis (the "danish incident" for example)

There are rules stating what can you say without repercussions and what you can't say. Every society has rules.

There are certain rules that must be enforced in order to maintain a high level of quality of ATS. I highly doubt you will get in trouble for being conservative or liberal, it is more likely the way someone expresses it that is a problem.

I can say whatever I want about conservative ideology and why I don't agree with it, won't get me banned. But if I personaly attack a conservative memeber of ATS in my posts, direct my criticism at a person and not ideology, I might get in trouble.

At least thats the way I understand the whole thing.

Originally posted by paperclip
I can say whatever I want about conservative ideology and why I don't agree with it, won't get me banned. But if I personaly attack a conservative memeber of ATS in my posts, direct my criticism at a person and not ideology, I might get in trouble.

At least thats the way I understand the whole thing.

Excellent!

That's a point so many people don't understand or misinterpret. If you disagree with someone and you have an extremely strong opinion about it, fair enough, we are all human, people HAVE different views. But if you take your disagreement and started attacking other people individually who oppose your thoughts, that is crossing the line over to launching personal attacks.

I think the problem with the increase in bannings is not that there is some sort of agenda within the moderator/admin community; suppressing information, banning people, dragging them out of theyre beds at night; but it's that there are more and more newer members that seem to have either a) Not read the Terms of Service or b)Did not care about the Terms of service.

I can not think of any situation on the board where someone was instantly banned. I mean, if there was, we were talking about some severe violations of ToS, and probably something to due to human liberties. Everybody has opinions, views, and idealogical differences from other people. And you know, sometimes, people get alittle mad, and they may post something that violates the TOS. Thats what warrants a Warning. Thats a learning process, and its very leanant.

The members that have been banned have all been warned repeated, continued to violate ToS multiple occassions, were talked to within u2u, and ultimately, as a last resort, they were banned.

Originally posted by Rizin
Yeah I'll admit that I didn't even read the T&C. However, I have posted on probably 40-50+ forums, and I don't recall being banned on any of them. So... I must be doing something right aye?

Being banned from ATS is a really hard thing to achieve. We take time to discuss an issue with a member and certainly don't want to lose anyone. Unfortunately, in some cases, it's a lost cause!

Originally posted by Rizin
I looked through some of the last posts that the banned people made and more often than not they aren't anything offensive. So, I am assuming that they were addressed by U2U and either got into an argument there, or just flat out declined to conform and were banned on the spot.

It is quite surprising how a simple U2U from staff asking someone to tone down their heated posting style can cause a person to "flip" and develop an instant hatred for us (staff). I've been involved in this situation on a number of occasions, resulting in me being told to F off.

Another common result is someone with so much pride that they can't handle being warned and basically tell us to ban them.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
I've noticed there's been a lot of member banning recently. All very well but what I want to know is: what got someone banned, and why (maybe it would help me tred the line sometimes).

We've experimented with various means of informing members as to who was banned and why over the past 3-4 years. In the end, everything we tried inspired drama in one way or another. So we simply do it quietly now.

Trouble is when I look at a band members recent threads I can't really see much wrong with them.

There are a number of reasons for this:
1) We may have removed or modified an offending post that contained the material that inspired their banning (most common).
2) There may have been a "behind the scenes" event where a member took extreme offense to minor moderation such as a big-quote or one-line warning. This happens more often than you think, as obstinate members escalate their rhetoric with staff rather than simply attempt to understand our guidelines.
3) There may have been a complaint from another member over a particularly offensive or threatening private U2U message. This doesn't happen often, but it happens.
4) An increasingly common reason over the past three months is because a banned member returns under a new account name and reverts to the behavior that got them banned in the first place. When we discover this situation, the normal "path to the ban hammer" is much shorter.

Anyway I would really like a banned members section containing...

Nope, sorry.

This would be really interesting and would probably also help reduce the number of banning’s.

It won't and didn't.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have noticed that many banings are people who oppose the popular opinion of the board and do not buy into the party line. What I mean by that is if you dont support the political and social views, some of the mods just seem to ban you rather than debate you. I have seen it happen quite a bit.

I can't say with 100% certainty that this has not happened, however I can say with conviction that this is 100% against the ideals and ethics under which we operate. Any moderator discovered behaving in this way (and standard moderators cannot ban members) will not be a moderator for long.

However... you mentioned something important:

I have had some of my threads moved off the board to some obscure place or trash them completely because they didnt like the way I said something.

I can't speak specifically for your situation, but people are banned from ATS for behavior not opinions. We aspire to be different than other discussion boards. We encourage a "free for all" exchange of heated debate on intense issues, but we insist that the discussions occur with common standards of decorum and respect. All too often, either through immaturity or a misunderstanding of our desired standards, members escalate intense rhetoric into a zone that requires staff to take action. Unless the subject matter promotes hate or illegal activity, topics never inspire bannings.

I and the other two partners have exceptionally high standards of encouraging free expression in all forms. But that never means we desire to support freely expressed abusiveness. This privately owned and operated discussion board does not fall under laws that guarantee freedom of speech. Your ability to participate in discussions here is a courtesy extended by the owners. If members are unable to participate under our simple standards (that are no different than what would be expected of you when visiting a neighbor), that courtesy will be revoked.

A friend of mine was banned for a pretty lame reason. I question the fairness of the banning guidelines here.

She wasn't warned at all. She never used profanity or violated the rules. She was never given an explanation for the ban. She tried to sign in and found she was banned.

She believes it was because her viewpoint wasn't popular with the people in charge here. What else would she think since no one communicated with her in any way before they simply dumped her?

Originally posted by brEaDITOR
A friend of mine was banned for a pretty lame reason. I question the fairness of the banning guidelines here.

She wasn't warned at all. She never used profanity or violated the rules. She was never given an explanation for the ban. She tried to sign in and found she was banned.

She believes it was because her viewpoint wasn't popular with the people in charge here. What else would she think since no one communicated with her in any way before they simply dumped her?

Contact myself privately via U2U. If she was banned for no reason, I would have thought she would have contacted us via e-mail to resolve the possibly incorrect action.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Be aware that banning is the very LAST option for dealing with members. Only when every, single, other possible option has been tried and exhausted will a member be permanently banned.

to welcome all viewpoints

no one is banned without good and clear reason, and without being in direct, deliberate, and continued violation of the T&C.

If a member was banned and you can't seem to figure out why, you can pretty much guarantee that there have been major happenings going on behind the scenes, via U2Us; emails; intentionally disruptive, attacking, or libelous activities both internal (usually trashed) and external to the site; and sometimes even direct hacking attacks.

These statements are complete BS. See my above post in this thread. Super BS appears in Italics. Gee, look at that. They're all super BS.

As I noted previously, my friend did none of these things, having never broken the rules here, and she was banned outright for having an unpopular viewpoint. This is the only explanation that remains that fits the circumstances of her banning.

Originally posted by SimonGray

Contact myself privately via U2U. If she was banned for no reason, I would have thought she would have contacted us via e-mail to resolve the possibly incorrect action.

She e-mailed you twice. You never replied.

Why don't you contact Simon via U2U as he said and tell him who it is?
How do you know why your friend was banned? How do you know her version of events is true? You seem to be pretty quick to pass judgement without knowing both sides of the story.

Originally posted by brEaDITOR
She e-mailed you twice. You never replied.

This is the kind of discussion that should take place privately. Please U2U me, or have this person contact me via e-mail as I obviously haven't received anything.


Your above statement that everything is BS shows you obviously disagree with us and only raises my eyebrows...