Bosnian Pyramid Update, page 29
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reply posted on 19-6-2007 @ 09:15 AM by Byrd
Originally posted by newtron25
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but if private research is to be conducted in archaeology then the work must also be coordinated with and supported by a university department, or at least the work must refer back to work done within that system.


Well, you're unfamilar with how archaeology is conducted and how digs and research happen. While a lot of it is done by universities (because digs are very expensive), some of it is done by foundations and organizations like the Texas Archaeological Society (I'm a member of that.)

Museums like the one I am working for also conduct digs using grant money, volunteers, and sometimes coordinating with universities.

Yes, science is built upon standards. However, consider this: what if those standards have been turned so sharply to produce profit so as to influence how the greater researchers and minds are given the obvious choice of following the funding to pursue their theories.


Sigh.

Perhaps you would enjoy joining your local archaeological society or taking a university course and learning more about the science? Something more than your speculations about what happens and how and why?

Although Osmanagic is a victim of his own avarice and over-zealous pursuit of his hypothesis, has he not also partially been unduly forced out of the establishment because of A) location of the site, B) possibility that the site may be of medieval importance, but not directly related to British medieval history and, C) unorthodoxy of his premise in beginning his research and, most importantly D) going outside the traditional university/privately supported and endorsed archaeological channels to do this work?

No. He's not been forced out of the establishment. He wanted to do archaeology but didn't want to spend the time learning culture and techniques and going on digs because he's rich. He feels that anyone can do archaeology by showing up with backhoes and shovels and a permit or two.

So a=no, b=yes, c=no (you should see some of the brawls over the ancient humans in America!), d=no. You also forgot e) he's damaging the whole area and f) he's already lost two skeletons and other materila and g) he or someone on his team has hoaxed at least one inscription and h) it's obvious even to the non-experts that he's not digging but carving and i) he's claiming all sorts of absurd things as "artifacts" (the "ancient sculpture of a cow" was one of the most laughable) to bolster his claim.


reply posted on 19-6-2007 @ 09:20 AM by newtron25
Originally posted by Byrd
Originally posted by newtron25
I hope your mind will be equally open to entertaining the possibility that while the man did not find a pyramid, there is a possibility that he has inadvertently found a very large, and very significant archaeological dig in its own right.


In fact, he didn't.

He was digging on a site with a number of known archaeological areas of interest, including a medieval graveyard and a very old Roman fortress. He was "digging" (I've been on digs, thank you) with a backhoe and bulldozer.

Nobody was sifting the dirt from the site (did you notice that they never found old buttons, etc?)

And if this is the case, and if the current researcher is not fit for the job, let's get somebody else in there.

If they can get him out of there. That's the problem.

He's currently been denied permits to continue because (as the Ministry concluded) what's being done there is not archaeology and he's damaging the material that is known to be there. He and his supporters are shrieking (and leveling charges of being "fascist tools" at the Ministry of Culture):
www.javno.com...

Yes, this is most likely a multi-layer site with care needed to be taken to preserve what exists at each level and an organization in the cataloging process that will separate different times and cultures.

...much of which he's already damaged, to the dismay of archaeologists worldwide. And your dig techniques are actually slower than his "bulldoze it and trim it" tactics. What slowed him down was officials starting to be suspicious of his methods.


Byrd,

You appear to be qualified since I have never been on a dig and you have.

What recommendations do you have for this site?

If this was already a known medieval site, then are you telling me it has already been surveyed and determined to be of no value? Is that your opinion or someone else's, Byrd?

If it is someone else's, please give me a link where I can find something on it. I'll do my own "digging" in the meantime on my end. I have to resolve this. Why in the name of all that is stupid I've been letting this story get to me like this...I'll never know.

This has become a quest for cleansing on my part. Not so much the "bitter" taste of finding out its not a pyramid...just that I have not been given anything but links to show how crazy the man is. It helps to know more of the scientific basis behind the site before actually dropping the issue in my mind, I guess.

At this point, I'm really disgusted by the whole thing. Such a waste.

Thanks for offering your expertise, Byrd.


reply posted on 19-6-2007 @ 10:51 AM by Marduk

If this was already a known medieval site, then are you telling me it has already been surveyed and determined to be of no value? Is that your opinion or someone else's, Byrd?

it was a royal town
it had been properly excavated by archaeologists and was a UNESCO world heritage site and national monument
en.wikipedia.org...
Visoki was built on Visočica hill, at a height of 766 meters, and 300 meters above the valley where the modern town of Visoko is located. By the time of the Turkish conquest of Bosnia, the old town was probably destroyed and never reconsturcted. Few remnants of old Visoki remain, most being preserved in the town's museum. In situ evidence include the remains of foundations of the towers, walls and gates of Visoki. A model has been reconstructed according to plans of Đoko Mazalić made in 1953, and the old royal town of Visoki is a national monument of Bosnia and Herzegovina




reply posted on 19-6-2007 @ 10:56 AM by newtron25
Originally posted by Marduk


If this was already a known medieval site, then are you telling me it has already been surveyed and determined to be of no value? Is that your opinion or someone else's, Byrd?

it was a royal town
it had been properly excavated by archaeologists and was a UNESCO world heritage site and national monument
en.wikipedia.org...
Visoki was built on Visočica hill, at a height of 766 meters, and 300 meters above the valley where the modern town of Visoko is located. By the time of the Turkish conquest of Bosnia, the old town was probably destroyed and never reconsturcted. Few remnants of old Visoki remain, most being preserved in the town's museum. In situ evidence include the remains of foundations of the towers, walls and gates of Visoki. A model has been reconstructed according to plans of Đoko Mazalić made in 1953, and the old royal town of Visoki is a national monument of Bosnia and Herzegovina



Thank you, Marduk. After this post, I will only search for the thread occasionally. I am out of here. IMO, this is a colossal mess and in the immortal words of Ricky Ricardo, "Osmie, you gots some splainin' to do!"

Sorry to be a bother.


reply posted on 20-6-2007 @ 03:27 PM by Byrd
Originally posted by newtron25You appear to be qualified since I have never been on a dig and you have.

What recommendations do you have for this site?

Site? There's probably two dozen sites on that one hill. Certainly a first step would be to identify them all.

If this was already a known medieval site, then are you telling me it has already been surveyed and determined to be of no value? Is that your opinion or someone else's, Byrd?


It's the realities of archaeology. There are literally millions of sites and not enough workers. Furthermore, archaeology isn't something you come in and do for 10 days and leave. The San Saba dig (that I worked on) is a famous archaeological site here in Texas... known for hundreds of years, and it gets worked on when you can get a team together with the proper permits. If we could put every Texan to work as archaeologists... we'd starve to death but we'd get all the rock art recorded, sites identified that are on ranch properties and so forth, and move some dirt.

So, yes, they have a list of known sites... the 90 or so areas where they won't let Osmanagic dig. Are there other sites there? Undoubtedly. The area's been inhabited for a very long time, so you get farmsteads, campgrounds of neolithic people, Roman fortresses, medieval churchyards, WWII material... milennia of history is strewn all over the hilltop. Some of it is not of interest right now (things from the 1950's) and some of it is of only moderate interest.

Bosnia is a very poor country. While the government was handing money to Osmanagic, the museums in the area were literally falling apart (sections of roofs developing holes, etc, etc.) The country is very poor and has few resources to conduct digs (even if there's volunteers, they need a place to stay, food, and so forth.) Osmanagic brought a lot of tourist dollars to the area and that's why they love him.

This has become a quest for cleansing on my part. Not so much the "bitter" taste of finding out its not a pyramid...just that I have not been given anything but links to show how crazy the man is. It helps to know more of the scientific basis behind the site before actually dropping the issue in my mind, I guess.

At this point, I'm really disgusted by the whole thing. Such a waste.

Thanks for offering your expertise, Byrd.


It's been discussed by knowledgeable people in many places. The Hall of Maat has been a good source for the fresh news (
www.hallofmaat.com...) and their board (which has Real Egyptologists posting) has been a good site for discussion.

Here's an index to their posts on this subject. I can probably help with other questions (to some extent)
www.hallofmaat.com...,406068,406068


reply posted on 27-6-2007 @ 10:15 AM by krowbarr
Guys, I 've been following this story too. Look at this:

"The Zenica-Doboj Cantonal Academic District received today the letter from BiH�s Ministry of Culture and Sport signed by Minister Gavrilo Grahovac and the Executive Director of the Federal Bureau for the Protection of National Monuments Mrs. Lidija Micic.


Contrary to the first letter and previous statements, now they are declaring that they are not in charge to express their opinion about the archaeological research in non-protected areas at the Bosnian pyramid of the Sun, Moon and Gornja Vratnica, justifying themselves as being misunderstood, that in the first letter they were referring only to the Protected areas, especially to the zone where the medieval town of Visoko is situated. In his first letter Minister Gavrilo Grahovac insisted from Ze-Do Cantonal District not to issue any further permits, nor to release funds which would allow the excavation work in the Valley of the Pyramids. Now he declares and �suggests� that only the Cantonal Ministry Of Culture is authorized to decision-making about the issue of permissions etc.

On Wednesday, June 27th, 2007 will be held the meeting between the Board of Ze-Do Canton District and the Federal Government. Among other agendas, the final decision about the future of the research project inside the Bosnian valley of pyramids, as result of the large scale public protest of the past days."

Bosnian-Pyramid.com

What do you think of this?

Large Scale Public Protests? The Bosnian Government is now reversing itself? What's going on?


reply posted on 25-10-2007 @ 05:36 PM by ArMaP
reply to post by zhuzha



That is a strange way of having an opinion...

Is you favourite club the one most people hate?
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