Bosnian Pyramid Update

Bosnian moon pyramid



and this i what they have found under soil on moon pyramid



more stone blocks


steps


stone wall


something



and you say there is no pyramid, nothing under the hill

i just saying wait and see

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
and you say there is no pyramid, nothing under the hill

i just saying wait and see

As I cannot know what is under any hill without looking, I never said that there was nothing under the hill, I only said that I do not think that there is a pyramid under the hill(s).

I know that our knowledge about our ancestors from more than 2000 years ago is very weak and I like it when something is found that changes what we thought about anything, but if someone makes statements about something, then that person(s) should provide the evidences that support what he/she/they say, so I am waiting too.

And thanks for the pictures, are you one of the people working there?

Originally posted by OuterSpaceMaster
Maybe my choice of words was incorrect...

Only in that you said none of these natural wonders was pyramid shaped.

The Antarctic mountain in particular appeared wonderfully pyramidal to me. But, then, I might not be the best judge as I also think Ferarris are ugly and Marcoses are beautiful.

I also accept that nature can do some strange things. Just check out the Giant's Causeway.

And I don't believe that Aliens erected the heads on Easter Island, I'm perfectly willing to accept Lord David Attenborough's explanation.

Originally posted by newtron25

Tell me something, do you think its a good idea for anyone doing an investigation to allow unfettered, wide-open access to the work you are doing while you are doing it?

Already, as researchers, I am willing to bet they are trying their best to keep the site as free from trampling by curiosity seekers, nay-sayers, debunkers and others who may like to lay claim to new discoveries there as much as possible.

Let's be a little realistic here, of course this guy is going to be possessive of this site. Regardless of how you judge the find, regardless of whether or not you feel he is worthy of being the "point man" on this potentially huge find, he was the one who initiated it - it is Mr. O's show.

I have a suggestion to anyone trying to offer alternate suggestion - write to the research team yourself. I think they would consider a well crafted proposal on researching the complex of manmade tunnels. I'm sure anyone with credentials (either legitimate, credible, or otherwise) who can provide them with a solid explanation will have their idea considered.

I know personally, this armchair quarterback is waiting to see more, but unless I know what's going on for sure, I'm just guessing.

Do you have expertise in ancient tunnel construction or early writings/symbolic communication Encidemon?

I'm not quite sure what this had to do with my post at all? My question was, the fact that they have all the pictures of the Rocks, if they weren't trying to prove something, why take that many at all? But then, when you have something that is most certainly man made, you have no pictures of it.

If you want to go off on a rant, that's fine, but try not to quote and address me directly on a seemingly unrelated subject. If you still think your post is related, please re-read my post and thoroughly understand what I really wrote, not what you wanted to read.

...why more information wasn't being given out to prove to the world what they have found. The answer is simple - they need to prove it to themselves first and they have just started.

And so you feel more comfortable, I'll address you as random person.

Random Person, I made my point earlier - I just didn't realize it required more reading comprehension than what is customarily required beyond today's education...

The reason they aren't showing more pictures, kinda like offering us a magazine or picture book with fewer words, is that they simply don't have to. They don't have to prove what they are doing to anyone besides themselves because it is their investigation. Furthermore, they have data that they are trying to preserve as the process unfolds for them, not for us, not for you Random Person, or me, or anyone on this thread. They are the researchers who decide what to show the public. Still further, if their INITIAL (I'm sorry if I made that all caps, may have hurt some people's eyes) as in preliminary, as in just out of the gate, as in "Hey there, you know from what we see here standing in Bosnia and what information we've collected, gosh darn it if this isn't something that looks like a pyramid and looks man-made and the whole walks like a duck, floats like a duck thing...blah, blah, blah"

If you don't understand my point, I'm probably using the wrong language to with I recommend Babel Fish. Wonderful program on the web.

This is not our game to steer. It's not our prize to capture. It is a wonderful story to watch unfold and speculate on, with wondering minds capturing the spirit these scientists must have as they're trying to figure out what the heck these mountains really are.

If they're wrong about the pyramid idea, I'm gonna bet with some degree of humility, they'll tell us. They'll have to. You can't hide something like that for very long.

In the meantime, pop some popcorn, check this thread once in a while and enjoy as humanity looks on at what MIGHT be their latest addition to their collection of giant antiquities.


Did I get it right, Random Person?

Originally posted by newtron25

...why more information wasn't being given out to prove to the world what they have found. The answer is simple - they need to prove it to themselves first and they have just started.

Then why are they telling the world what they have found AND that they have proof of it?

Scientific method: Propose theory, question theory, question, question again.

blind support method: Propose undeniable truth, deny questions, deny, deny again, obfuscate.

Originally posted by OuterSpaceMaster
If this guy is going to post things like this, then I will take umbrage with it. I do not have to justify it to you. He posted pictures that he thought backed his claim that this is no pyramid in Bosnia. His evidence did little to support this claim, so I let him know about it. The pictures he provided only enhance the possibility that there is a pyramid there.

No, I posted pictures to demonstrate the fact that hills with a pyramidal shape when seen from some directions occur naturally all over the world. Thus, the fact that Visocica looks pyramidal from one direction is not itself evidence of it being a manmade structure.

But there is a group of people here who make it their sole purpose to shoot down every theory, question, or topic that is posted. I do not see the benefit of this.

No, there are a group of people here who prefer evidence rather than blind faith when it comes to new ideas or theories. I do see the benefit of this

If someone presents a new idea and I am privy to information that casts doubt on that idea, I consider it my duty to point this out. Otherwise we'd all end up thinking the moon is amde of cheese and the world is flat

Rather then being offended by criticism of a new idea or theory, you should take that criticism on board, incorporate the new evidence given to you, and adjust your idea or theory accordingly. That way the idea or theory becomes stronger and more likely to generally accepted

Blindness Occurs in all Forms

Blind faith, blind criticism, blind ambition...tell me we haven't been witness to all of those and more with this story.

This is the point - no one posting here has more proof than the people actually producing it - the people actually doing the research. They are the ones with the dirt on their hands their two eyes on the artifacts who may make the judgements as to what is proof and what is not. Digital photos posted on a website are for entertainment purposes only. I actually like seeing the alternative views of what natural looking pyramids look like. What I don't like is the sniping and the jeering. Tell me, have they found structures or stones beneath any of those other naturally occuring piles of dirt? Are there stories that survive generations through the villagers telling about those other piles of dirt? Do those other piles of dirt have tunnels, ancient or otherwise beneath them?

Where did anyone say "Look at the shape of that hill! That is proof it's a pyramid and its proof that it is so?"...and by anyone, I mean anyone from the Bosnian research team?

People may have said "The shape of the Visocia hill is strong evidence that, when combined with other evidence found, offers proof of....(whatever)"

Yes, they have announced having proof that what they have found is a pyramid. Can anyone reading these posts tell me that they're there in Bosnia? Maybe one or two can. Do they have degrees in studying this stuff? That they're as qualified or better qualified to do this work than the people there? I'll bet most qualified archaeologists are NOT willing to ask this question because of the onslaught of ridicule that follows the question - just like the ridicule that seems to be raining down on this effort from this thread. You naysayers should be thanking this guy at the very least for offering you target practice while you reload....

Yet one more time, I am reading posts by people wishing to advance their school of fingerpointing thought rather than reading people who are willing to entertain the thoughts behind what we're looking at and what might be.

What the heck, people? Posting a picture of mounds of dirt and then offering some sort of half-joking comparison to what they're doing in Bosnia? If someone is going to say that was a legitimate opposing theory, then they are not paying attention to what is being excavated in Bosnia.

I have yet to read a well thought out argument against this pyramid, all evidence considered, from anyone on this thread. Just speculation. There is also speculation from those "Blind Faithers" as well. Both sides will have their speculation supported or corrected once the team actually doing the research collection the information. And as far as offering proof as to why it CAN'T be a pyramid, I haven't read that either. If anyone wants to prove that this is something that can not possibly be, shut down this thread with your blinding logic. Show us all beyond a reasonable doubt (or further) on all accounts and measures why this is NOT a pyramid.

Of course you could just continue to throw piles of dirt at it until it looks like something else....I hear that Native American peoples didn't even bother shaping their tombs...just made them into mounds. (All over the Midwest, actually, another topic....)

This idea of a "pyramid" should be shelved for now. Let's just all agree to call it an archaeological dig with disputed shape and see what happens.

Originally posted by newtron25

I have yet to read a well thought out argument against this pyramid, all evidence considered, from anyone on this thread. Just speculation.

I have yet to read a well thought out argument for this pyramid, all evidence considered, from anyone on this thread (or, indeed, anywhere else on the internet). Just speculation.


Facts:-

The hills look pyramid shaped from some directions

Topographic maps show that they are not, however, what would normally be considered pyramids - ie do not have a square or rectangular base and have variable slopes.

What appears to be manmade stonework has been uncovered in s few places

What is undoubtably natural bedrock has been uncovered in several places

The main site - Visocica - is known to have been the location of a Medieval town.

No datable artifacts have yet been found and presented to the public.


In short, there is no evidence as yet to support the contention that Visocica, or any other hill in the area, is a manmade construction. And the onus is, of course, on those supporting such a conjecture to provide evidence, not to simply dismiss anyone who points out its lack ....

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Essan]

To the prior post: I did not dismiss anyone. All I did was to ensure that the contributions are of two sorts: supportive or argumentative.

You tend to offer solid argumentative, excellent posts.

Others tend to support the theory, sometimes with too much unrealistic speculation. Both sides do that.

All I was asking for was for a stop to pointed, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah" posts.

They are insultory and don't do much toward promoting the quality of posts here on the board, no matter how many cut and pasted images and out-of-context words are included in the post.

Thank you again for offering a differing opinion based in fact. Something that requires thought, work, a lot of surfing and the ability to intelligently assemble one's thoughts.


AS FOR THE PYRAMID:

You skipped over my last sentence: I asked that we begin to stop referring to this as pyramid at all. It is an archaeological dig whose outcome is questionable and requires everyone to withhold judgement until a LOT MORE information is in. Regardless of the apparent evidence such as how it was a medieval town and how the mountains may appear from space or from a mile or two up. Let's wait to see how it looks when more dirt is removed...once what's underneath reveals more.

Geez, people. This is not rocket science. It's just archaeology, right?


Newtron

Originally posted by newtron25
To the prior post: I did not dismiss anyone. All I did was to ensure that the contributions are of two sorts: supportive or argumentative.

Sorry, I wasn't aiming that comment specifically at you

I asked that we begin to stop referring to this as pyramid at all. It is an archaeological dig whose outcome is questionable and requires everyone to withhold judgement until a LOT MORE information is in.

But the point is, those carrying out dig are the ones calling it a pyramid, and they also drew that conclusion before any information was in.

I fully agree though - there is archaeology there and it may well turn out to be interesting. Just not what Osmanagic and his team want

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Essan]

If I can just say something about the pictures, I, and I think most of us, really appreciate having crev provide these photos, whatever we think they show. I don't think it can really be said that the people running the digs are trying to hide anything by not giving enough pictures, we've seen a wonderful flood of photos.

I agree

The only problem with the pictures is that they keep making me wish I could go and visit myself!

...just to be part of this huge project, no matter what, would be a once in several life times chance....

and for the record...this is what was said, at least what was posted, at the official Bosnian Pyramid site from the researcher:

Barakat: ‘This is man-made pyramid’

The two Egyptian scientists working at the Bosnian pyramids - geologist Barakat and archeologist Lamia El Hadidi – have made some of their findings public prior to completing their work at the site. They conclude that there are ancient man-made structures in the Visocica Hill region.

When he first arrived in Bosnia, geologist Barakat said that Visocica Hill was probably ‘some kind of primitive pyramid’. After more than a month working at the site, his opinion remains unchanged.

Barakat said, “For me, as a scientist and geologist, there’s still no doubt that this is man-made. I think that humans cut, polished, reshaped and formed stone blocks [that form the pyramid), bringing them here and adding them to the existing hill in order to give the shape of a pyramid to the hill.”


It is clear, even he is still hedging his bets as to whether it is a pyramid in the classic definition of the structure or not. What he is saying is that his observations indicate to him that the shape of the stones (the ones that are man-made) were arranged and placed on the hill in a pyramid form.


People need to be clear as to what they quote.

"Rock" on, dude!

Come on Newtron25, you surely know full well that Osmanagic and his team have been referring to the hills around Visoko as pyramids since last year. That's why they call them the Pyramid of the Sun, the Pyramid of the Moon, the Pyramid of the Dragon and the Pyramid of Love

(Check out the excavations page, for example, at the official website bosniapyramid.com... )

Originally posted by Essan
Come on Newtron25, you surely know full well that Osmanagic and his team have been referring to the hills around Visoko as pyramids since last year...

Essan,

Too too true. But you forgot something. Not only were these hills instantly designated pyramids as Osmanajic set foot of the airliner that brought him to Bosnia, he also had an irrefutable date for them (12,000 y.o.) before the first spadefull of earth was turned!

Man, that guy must be some Archaeologist!

Harte

Monday, June 26, 2006

Scientist´s Conclusion "Yes there is something great"

On 23 June, just one day before the scientific conference in Sarajevo the Austrian team accompanied the two geologists Dr.Amer Smailbegovich and Dr.Aly Barakat on their field trip around and up and down Visocica Hill.
We were protected by a snake finder and lead by Mr.Zombie with the machete as the terrain is steep, jungle like and dangerous. We turned every stone to investigate its compound, orientation and source of layer.
This is what Dr.Barakat told me as his personal conclusion after 40 days of study:

1.Visocica and Pljescevica Hill clearly show signs of being shaped by man.

2.Nature cannot form Breccia and sandstone into equally sized square blocks, neatly put together to fit four perfectly oriented sides of a pyramid shaped hill.

3.Man obviously shaped the stone blocks, polished them, cut in form and covered the sides of the hills.

4.Purpose, age and culture is unknown.

5.The hills were there and man shaped the natural breccia and sandstone layers

text by Gabriele Lukacs

A correction of my perceptions of this story.

Until now I had the idea that Semir Osmanagić was saying that these were pyramids in the same way as the Egyptian pyramids, completely built by humans (conspiracies apart) on a more or less flat ground.

But today I noticed that in what he said was that the hill was transformed to give it a perfectly pyramidal shape.

If that was what Semir Osmanagić meant, then the discoveries made until now are much closer of what he was expecting to find than I thought at first.

Having said this, I still wait patiently to see if there are really proofs of a man-shaped hill or not.

Judging by how far below ground those are, they have got to be pretty old... Unless my idea of how quickly dirt is made is horribly skewed. I won't disagree that some of those photos show manmade stuff, I just want to see the tunnels and inscriptions...


*edited post out of hindsight and further reading*

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Ecidemon]

Again, I'd like to point out that a pyramid doesn't have to be manmade to be a pyramid. People have this general impression that a pyramid is some structure created by man, when it's simply a geometric shape. So yes, they ARE pyramids, whether man made them or not.

So in that respect, case closed, they're pyramids!! I guess the debate here should be on whether man put them there, or if they manipulated an already existing geographic feature to ease the construction. Time will tell.

TheBorg