Bosnian Pyramid Update

i am open minded i am ready for it to be nothing and for it to be a coffee shop(pyramid too)

i dont like those last minute einstein saying IT'S NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
einstein was einstein cos went over the knowledge of his time (maybe even dreaming)


i will be extremely happy even if it's 'just' some roman ruins

neither the best archeoligst of this world, and of all ages, digging now there ( i dont mean osgmancic ) shall be 101% sure to make statements

and in facts i think these are the best men ( i'm not including myself there )

[edit on 13-6-2006 by maus]

Why are people calling anyone anything???
Only time will tell. Right now all people have are opinions until the thing is unearthed. You're entitled to have an opinion either way and express those opinions but keep your peronal assaults to yourself.
My opinion - it's a man-made pyramid. But we'll see.

Originally posted by newtron25

Originally posted by thematrix

It's a hypothetical and a bit of hyperbole, but a question I was curious about. Does he have the right in the eyes of archaeological community to even be there, and does that change how everyone else is looking at him as he excavates this hill?


Newtron

Schliemann was an amateur archeologist with very rude ways to dig and uncover, thanks to him, we had TROY as reality, even if for centuries was only a legend, a myth ( inexistent)

I guess many Patented Archeologist from this or that Musem from this or that Associations, sitting in New York Berlin Paris and London felt like outranged(?) to see mr nobody be there and make one of the best discovery of the modern history.

but u know, he was an amateur, digging in a fantasy place

Originally posted by mecheng
Why are people calling anyone anything???

Exactly!

It's obvious how this bit of petty sniping started on the previous page and it stops here before it gets nasty.

Back on topic and lets leave the snippy BS where it belongs...on some other website.

Fair warning.

Originally posted by imbalanced
I cant wait to see what the whole thing looks like when its uncovered.

They're not going to uncover the whole hill.


I can't beleive that this thread degenerated so quickly into snipping and attacks, we were all having a nice, if contentious, conversation about this.

To get back on track, lets look at some other ancient european pyramids and similar structures and reports of them as we await more infromationa from the news sources, and more excellent pictures from Crvenkapica.

Thor Heyerdahl plans to study a giant pyramid-shaped structure in Sicily which he says could be thousands of years old and built for sun worship.

Giant Ancient Stone Strucutres in Sardinia
www.stonepages.com...
www.stonepages.com...
www.stonepages.com...
Pre-historic Nuraghe Tower

I don't want to go too off topic with those things, but at least they can give us something to do other than pointlessly attack each other.


If nothing else they show that there were amazing capabilities of some of these prehistoric civilizations, and that there are some features that are actually indicative of man-made objects.

I wish they were going to uncover the whole thing. It seems to make sense to do so !
If I had a pyramid in my back yard, I think I would dig.

Yes, but the problem with digging is that, its incredibly expensive, you'd destroy lots of other artifacts in teh process, and there's not enough evdence showing that it is infact a pyramid. And remember, thre are other known archaeological sites on this location, we can't just start throwing away tonnes and tonnes of dirt, we'd never be able to catch all the stuff that is sunk in it.

There is a difference between "that hill is man made structure" and "there is a man made structure in that hill".

I think that there are some man made structures in that hill, like there are man made structures all over Europe.

If, besides that, there is a pyramid under the hill, that is another matter.

Well, lets wait patiently and we will see.

Originally posted by imbalanced
I wish they were going to uncover the whole thing. It seems to make sense to do so !
If I had a pyramid in my back yard, I think I would dig.

Yes, but in the words of Chief Wiggum "No, dig up, stupid!"

I'd want to get inside the thing, if I could.

Unless I was in Vegas, in which case I'd dig a bunker in my backyard so I didn't have to be confronted with the site of the Luxor casino.

To digress a little...

I know in Britain the law says all archeological finds are the property of the state and while you won't be compensated to their worth you will be rewarded if you happen to dig up the grave of King Arthur while planting a new hedge.

What are the ownership laws in members' countries regarding worthless old bits of bric-a-brac you find?

*the Wiggum quote is meant to be funny, not insulting (just insuring myself against warnings and all that)*

Originally posted by Nygdan
Yes, but the problem with digging is that, its incredibly expensive, you'd destroy lots of other artifacts in teh process, and there's not enough evdence showing that it is infact a pyramid. And remember, thre are other known archaeological sites on this location, we can't just start throwing away tonnes and tonnes of dirt, we'd never be able to catch all the stuff that is sunk in it.

Not to Argue Nygdan, but again, your thoughts provoke responses.

I wish some of our Arab Members could read what you noted, and take that to heart. Maybe a little effort on their behalf would aid in that contenious location.

www.templeinstitute.org...

The Headline say's it all

"In an unbelievable disregard for holy respect, scientific principles and simple decency, see what is permitted to go on at the Holiest site on Earth!"

And I'll quote some of this, since apparently, it seems SOME can do exactly what you note Others shouldn't be doing.

Five years hence the Israeli government continues to turn a blind eye to the rapacious handiwork of the Muslim Wakf. For the destruction continues apace: mountains of dirt rich with shattered archeological remains are excavated and dumped as waste in abandoned valleys and ravines. Despite the ongoing protests of the very same archeological experts who have been granted legal authority by the Israeli government to protect all sites of archeological significance, the Israeli government pursues a policy of tacit acquiescence. Despite the outcry of thousands of Jews who continue to yearn and pray for the rebuilding of the Holy Temple 2000 years after its destruction at the hands of the Roman legions, the Israeli government, into whose hands the perpetuity of the Jewish nation and civilization have been entrusted, actively chooses to do nothing.

One year ago, a three year exile of Jews from the Temple Mount came to an end. All who go up to the Mount today witness with their own eyes the continuing attempt to eradicate all visible historic artifacts testifying to the 4000 year old connection between the Jewish nation and the holy Mount Moriah. We present to you a collection of photos taken since 2003. The significance of the objects in some of the photos can be conjectured by archeologists, but as they themselves are not allowed to conduct any research on the Temple Mount, once these objects have been dug up and removed, their place in history becomes forever lost.

The frantic attempts of the Muslim Wakf and the Palestinian Authority to obliterate all remnants of the Holy Temple, while at the same time disseminating the colossal lie that the Holy Temple never existed, belie their own suppressed awareness that they are occupiers of a house not theirs, and that time and history, those marvelous tools in the hand of the One G-d, are working day by day to overturn their conspiratorial intrigues:

I know this is the sort of problem you are pointing out as something that COULD OCCUR in Bosnia, and if it did, it would be more likely of an accident, than blatant destruction for the sake of blatant destruction.

Some of the Archaeologists, have gone into the Dumped Sites and salvaged HISTORICAL TEMPLE ITEMS, of the Temple from both First and Second incarnations, as well as items since. See the following. A fairly nice read, despite the situation they face, and a nice example of items (SMASHED AND DESTROYED BY P.A.) they have located in these pits.

www.har-habayt.org...

Scroll down for the Photos.

This is an extreme example, but an example of exactly what Nygdan has noted. This is why care should be placed upon the dig in Bosnia, but I am sure, if the situation arose, that this was seen to have occured at the Pyramid Dig, efforts would be immeadiately implimented to save those sites as well. Afterall, they did not destroy the Path, Laneway Item, but are uncovering it.

And If I can ask. What happened in one day here. Please, everyone get along.

Ciao

Shane

Hi shane i hate to take this any further off topic but you cited this

The frantic attempts of the Muslim Wakf and the Palestinian Authority to obliterate all remnants of the Holy Temple, while at the same time disseminating the colossal lie that the Holy Temple never existed, belie their own suppressed awareness that they are occupiers of a house not theirs, and that time and history, those marvelous tools in the hand of the One G-d, are working day by day to overturn their conspiratorial intrigues:

Hasnt Israel also occupied a house not of there own (parts of palestine), just to be fair and balanced.

On topic, the paved areas remind me more of a paved path or plaza rather than a road, but its position on the side of a hill is intriguing. Perhaps the tiers of a pyramid could have been decorated with these paving stones? just a thought.

Cheers
M4S

Whoa Whoa, lets not go from a potential pyramid in Bosnia to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, there are plenty of threads for that topic. Everyone's raised some good points, but lets avoid any digression into that area.

Let's get back to pyramids...

The best evidence that it's a pyramid-shaped hill and not a manmade pyramid came from the film that was linked about 5 pages ago. I meant to comment on it then and got sidetracked, but I noticed some important things.

First... the size of the hill itself. It's long and tall and it's steep. The tourists all had to stop and breathe (yes, they're out of shape but most of them were young) several times along the way. In order to make something that tall, you either have to move a lot of rock out of something that was sort of pyramid shaped OR you have to drag a lot of rock up there.

We know that oxen helped drag stones for the pyramids -- but there's a limit to how much they and humans can drag up a long slope. Egypt had the culture that supported drafting everyone in the land (quite literally) to do the god-king's bidding during the "off season" of agriculture.

No such culture pattern existed in that area of the Mediterranean.

Beyond the cultural quibbles, there's the actual structure of the stone. If you remember, there's a turn they take and the filmmaker stops to film some of the "pyramid stones." What most people see is rock. If you've had some geology courses, you see a layer of coquina limestone (zillions of shells) and a layer of mudstone or smooth limestone.

That's perfectly normal for seabed deposits. But as a choice of building material?

Well, the coquina has a lot of little shells in it, and it's niether perfectly even nor easy to cut. It's so nasty to work with that you don't see it as a building material until the last century or so. The coquina is (if memory serves) on a layer lower than the smoother stone.

Why cut a very difficult stone for one of the lower layers? Why not use smoother and more sculptable stone?

Looking at those and at other rocks, we see vast slabs of stone. Remember the steepness of the hill? Why did they select blocks that would be impossible to drag with a team of modern vehicles over small and easily toted slabs? Every other structure in the area is built of stone blocks that can be moved by hand. Even if these were lifted onto the lower slabs, they would be impossible to shift into place.

That makes no sense.

The "different layers of rock" continue upwards, as you see in the final view on the top, where the rock is different again from the lower layers. We expect to see this in geology. But it doesn't make sense in architecture since it means your building will not be terribly stable.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
It appears that most intelligent people here believe there is a massive man made object here...

I think most intelligent people here believe that it's a natural hill and that all Osmanagic and his team have uncovered is natural bedrock (some of it undeniably so even from just seeing photos of it) together with genuine archaeology relating to the known Roman presence on the hill or,

Sorry but I don't agree in the least with you. I read all the posts and nay saying and nobody has made a convincing argument yet that it is not what it is claimed to be.

The best you can come up with is that it is not 100% verifiable to be a pyramid which will take some time yet to fully uncover. That does not mean absolutely that it is not one.

The bias of many members here in rushing to judge something is troubling I have to say... even UNESCO wants to have a look at this thing now and I hope they will and I hope they are not kowtowing to the establishment scientific community (masonic and secret society controlled).

Originally posted by EssanNowt wrong with thinking differently. But believing in something purely on faith, irrespective of the complete lack of evidence, is not necessarily an intelligent thing to do

Complete lack of evidence? Looks like a good amount of evidence has come forward so far.. for this being some kind of structure and the hill looks like a pyramid shape to me. Show me in nature where hills of conical shape have sharpe points in nature? I would assume that most of these shaped hills in the world have rounded apexes.

So all he needs is money i guess.....what a minute....HOLY CRAP IM SLOW !

expensive to dig:




remember that who did dig big pyramids in the past, from egypt to mexico, could buy some hundred of(or more) of people for little money


today, and in bosnia or u get some volunteer or u gonna spend a fortune, surely not some dollars.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Looks like a good amount of evidence has come forward so far.. for this being some kind of structure and the hill looks like a pyramid shape to me. Show me in nature where hills of conical shape have sharpe points in nature? I would assume that most of these shaped hills in the world have rounded apexes.

There are many hundreds of pyramidal shaped hills all over the world. These are a couple I know in the Scottish Highlands:-





However, it's worth noting that, despite appreance from some angles, Visocia actually has a fairly flat summit.

A map of the hill shows just how 'unpyramidal' it really is



It was on this summit that a Roman Signal Post and later a medieval fortress was built. A sizeable town is known to have grown up around the fortress, probably on the western shoulder of the hill; the precussor of the modern topwn of Visoki which now lies in the valley below.

Geological maps of the area show that Visocica is comprised of Middle to Upper Miocene "Lasva conglomerate", which contains layers of conglomerate, sandstone, and marlstone.



Photos elsewhere in this thread clearly show what appear to be natural outcrops of conglomerate, sandstone and marlstone ......


From which the logical conclusion - until any evidence to the contrary is presented - is that this is a natural hill with the remains of ancient buildings on it. Some of which may have been uncovered by Osmanagic's team.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Whoa Whoa, lets not go from a potential pyramid in Bosnia to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, there are plenty of threads for that topic. Everyone's raised some good points, but lets avoid any digression into that area.

The disregard for any cultural site of importance to anyone must be stopped at all costs anywhere. Every find should be protected and cared for in the proper manner.

Your suggestion of a debris pile with artifacts strewn in it is a clear problem. Was this an Extreme Example of what you where noting, Yes.

It is the only one I am aware of with Photos to allow for people to see, what could be overlooked, if things get rushed, and handled in such a manner. As the photos show, everything becomes Debris, and/or rubble.

As for the Pyramid, I feel, this is not occuring, right now. Evidence seems to show, in the Photos offered in this topic, that care and considerations for anything they have found is being taken.

But a rush just to strip the covering of the Hill away to prove there is a Pyramid or Something in these hills, because we may wish to see what can be found, without taking care for everything that can be found, would result in finds like have been shown in the Debris Piles in Jerusalem.

Being Hasty to complete a project, should never occur, over Culturally Important Finds no matter where they maybe, or how they may interfere in the Quest for Discovery. Osmanagic has an intention to find something. He may not be the professional, "Other's" may wish him to be, but at least he is protecting what is being found.

Sorry to have infered otherwise in my previous post. I do agree, there's room elsewhere to disgress into that "Conflict". It was the destruction of artifacts and the mishandling of these items that was the intent.

Ciao

Shane

Wow, thats a great geological map essan. ANd there is an Ophiolite in the region?! Wonderful! Thats a helluva lot more exciting than the pyramid evidence. Ophiolites are the remnants of ancient and antediluvian mid-ocean ridges, welded onto the continental crust as the oceans shrink into nothing. And look, not far from it Flysch deposits, these are deposits that occcur as the plates move and the land inwards from the coast of an ancient continent 'sinks' down and fills with an Eperic Sea, all as a part of the movement caused by what is now the Ophiolite!

And they're right next to each other, fabulous!


And back working from that Image, it looks like there is someone that has an open graduate student research project on the region. I will email him about the Bosnian Pyramid, maybe he will respond. There's a chance he might be a bit of a character that would respond to such an odd request, considering that this:
www.sediment.uni-goettingen.de...
with the caption

This is a zircon-shaped birthday cake with fission tracks; made by Tamás

Was his birthday cake!