Just a thought about the stealth fighter/bomber.

These were being developed in the early 70's and the only came out of the black world and into public view in late 80's early 90's that suggests that our perception of air combat technology is 20 years or more behind the cutting edge.
I believe the USA has had the aurora aircraft for at least 10 years probably longer.
Imagine what things they have flying through the air right now that not even people like us suspect yet!

hmmm would have expected some replies to this, are well

Well, you are so obviously right nobody has needed to reply!

i believe alot of their "top toys" have been in the dark for at least 10 years.

Originally posted by Kalistenics
hmmm would have expected some replies to this, are well

Well,

What are we supposed to reply?

There is no question..

It is like this in ATS:

State facts / truht and nobody usually replys to your post / topic..

lol FULCRUM,
thats sooo true

Infinite: "i believe alot of their "top toys" have been in the dark for at least 10 years."

I agree with Infinite's post as well.

From my vantage point at work I occassionally see what are considered protoypes rolling in on the runways at night.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a paradygm shift about to happen in the way combat aircraft handle their role... whether it is 2 years or 10 years down the road - it is definitely down the road.

From what I can tell and without getting too dogmatic - where we're at technically can be measured something like this:

If "they" say that a new technology is being examined - it is quite probably a technology being pulled out of the black.

If "they" say that something is being researched then chances are it is under development.

If "they" say something is under development then chances are there is a working copy being tested.

If "they" say something is being tested then there is probably at least one demo squadron active.

If "they" say something is being researched, developed or tested and then you hear no more about it - then you've got something that has gone super-black.

Unlike two school kids on the playground bragging about who has the biggest and the best of something - the US defense industry behaves quite the opposite, fielding new technology into the mainstream only on an as needed basis... staying one or two generations ahead of closest competitors - and declaring that what the general public sees is as good as it gets...


intelgurl



[Edited on 15-10-2003 by intelgurl]

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by intelgurl]

It's par for the course. The Cold War mentality was:

1. You don't want your opponent to know you have this toy.
2. If they do find out about it, they'll accelerate their own development in that region and then you have to pour even more money in to stay ahead!
3. Some technologies had a very destabilising effect on the balance of power. Anti-ballistic missiles back then made nuclear war more likely, not less - because you might be able to survive and therefore win. As my favourite madman of an officer, General Powers, once said, "If at the end of the war one Russian and two Americans are left alive, we win." Or words to that effect.

Actually, this sort of strategy dates back to Ancient China and Sun Tzu. By being formless (ie in the black) your opponent cannot see you, guage your strengths and weaknesses and does not know what his are as a result.

Do you think the black project would come out in the event of a world war?

I believe that our government has weapons that have been developed for use during another serious world war. Look at what we know about now. Most of our current wonder weapons were built in the 80's. Who would have ever believed that they could make a electromagnetic pulse bomb. I wonder what other type of weapons we'll find out about as time goes by.

Originally posted by Kalistenics
Do you think the black project would come out in the event of a world war?

absolutely and unquestionably, yes they would be used - whether they are acknowledged would have everything to do with how advantageous disclosure would be for the Govt.

intelgurl

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by intelgurl]

Very true, Most of the planes we are looking at today in military service are getting close to the end of their service lives. The defense department hides things for decades before they ever tell us about them. Just look at stealth aircrafts the research that lead to today's stealth aircraft began as a study in 1975, but we never heard about stealth untill mid 1988. So the government hid the stealth for 13 years. Using the same time interval, if they are working on something new today, we wouldn't find out about it offically untill 2016 or after.

Tim

Actually...even older... The SR71 was already a couple decades old when it was finally publicly "acknowledged...". And if you think the Raptor is the most advanced fighter we're working on...you'd be mistaken..... Military tech in general (especially avionics) are always 20-30 years ahead of mainstream...

the "black world" is very secret and some of their "top toys" have be around for years and we won't even see them in official action for many more years.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Actually...even older... The SR71 was already a couple decades old when it was finally publicly "acknowledged...". And if you think the Raptor is the most advanced fighter we're working on...you'd be mistaken..... Military tech in general (especially avionics) are always 20-30 years ahead of mainstream...

Thanks Gazrok, you're so right. I didn't think about the Blackbird when I wrote my post. The CIA's A-12 versionis even older then the SR-71. I beleve the Research phase of the Blackbird program began in the late '50's under the codename Oxcart.

Tim

Originally posted by Zzub
Well, you are so obviously right nobody has needed to reply!

true