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And Muslisms Believe They Hold the Moral Upper Hand?

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posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Here is a case of a Muslim man with 64 children by 4 'legal' wives and 6 'contractual' wives raping his daughters by virtue of their allegedly being his 'property'.



www.stuff.co.nz
SINGAPORE: A Singaporean Muslim man with 10 wives and 64 children was sentenced to 32 years in jail and a caning for raping five of his under-age daughters, court documents showed.


The 45-year-old man, who cannot be named in order to protect the identity of his daughters, was sentenced after he pleaded guilty to five charges of rape and admitted to another 34 charges, including rape and attempted aggravated rape.

"The numerous rapes in this case were systematic and sickening," said High Court Judge Tay Yong Kwang in the judgment.



Given that Muslim countries are forever assailing the West about our decadence and moral decay it is troubling that some of their teachings seem to be overlooked.

Granted, there are sickos and psychopaths in all societies irrespective of their culture or teachings but does the Koran really say a father 'owns' his daughters? How can Muslims pretend to be the superior moral authority with these kinds of beliefs? Multiple wives is a bit dodgy in most societies but 'contractual' wives? You mean it's morally A.O.K to take a wife for a predetermined period of time and then cast her off? Isn't that more like prostitution?

[edit on 19-4-2006 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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Well Muslims #1 profit was a murderer & sold women & childeren to slavery. They also got that 72 virgin thing down pact.

Very moral to me.



posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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it sickens me that you label a religion based on people who claim to follow it. you act like just because he claims to be muslim that this represents the Islamic religion. This man is a disgrace to his religion but further more a reason for racists and bigots to pick at the religion of Islam. I see it all the time, if this man was catholic or something of christian base would I still be seeing this thread? I doubt it seeing as this was taking a shot to the Muslim religion and moral basis rather then this individuals moral basis.



posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Anyone who takes a basic religions course knows that Islam is not nearly as bad as some of these people would like to believe. None of them actually do any research themselves, they just repeat the same mindless nonsense coming from the Christian RIght, paranoid that their way of life is under attack by another religion,



posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Does the poster who posted this believe muslims have the upper hand in moral behavior?

[edit on 19-4-2006 by NeoQuest]



posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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over 90% of the prison population in the USA lists their religion as Christian - so, what can we infer from that? I mean, that's somewhat greater than the percentage of the general population so, clearly, Christianity causes crimes? or, should we say that it's evidence of the persecution of Christianity in this country?

this is tabloid crap and I can't believe that the mods have even left it up this long - it is not worthy of the ATS Community - bump it to BTS where it belongs and let them go at it in the spirit of "Embrace Ignorance".



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
over 90% of the prison population in the USA lists their religion as Christian - so, what can we infer from that? I mean, that's somewhat greater than the percentage of the general population so, clearly, Christianity causes crimes? or, should we say that it's evidence of the persecution of Christianity in this country?


Where did you get that figure from?
I'd like a link to verify it because it doesn't sound right.

In France about 50% of the prison population is muslim even though they are around 10% of the overall population: link

In Britain muslims account for about 8% of the prison population even though they are around 3% of the overall population: link



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 02:33 AM
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This is clearly wrong, and i don't really think that many muslims would have done the same thing, if any other.
But the question is, would this have been ignored or accepted in a muslim country.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 04:10 AM
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Its clearly an isolated incident that has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Are you implying that if he had only been allowed to have one wife that he wouldnt have raped his children. Give me a break.

I can think of at least 2 or 3 serial killers who happen to be christian, does that make all christians serial killers.

Sicko's cross all race's and religions, if we all concentrated as much on ridding the world of these sorts of mutants instead of killing each other the world would be a much nicer place..



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Where did you get that figure from?
I'd like a link to verify it because it doesn't sound right.

In France about 50% of the prison population is muslim even though they are around 10% of the overall population

In Britain muslims account for about 8% of the prison population even though they are around 3% of the overall population


hmm... I posted a post ages ago on generalising Islam and used the precise ratio of black people in US jails vis-a-vis population as the perfect example of how these racist generalisations work... the disproportionate number of African Americans in jail does not mean black people are criminals... this has a simialr par with the French situation... as long documented prejudice within the French Justice system is far likeier to find a muslim (in this case ex-colonials like Moroccans and Algerians) guilty of a crime than good white French christians...

the whole point is you CANT use prison population as a marker of cultural behaviour... so whats the point of verifying the actual number of Christians in jail Aceofbass?

Q

previous post



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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In response to grimreaper and others with a similar slant on my post. Read first... post second. I in no way attacked Isalm in this post. My question surrounded whether the Koran actually teaches that a father 'owns' his children and is free to do whatever he wants with them. I clearly said, in my OP, that "...there are sickos and psychopaths in all societies irrespective of their culture or teachings ..." So get off your white horse and back off on the personal attacks.

My point was simply this: We are routinely hearing from 'that side' that the west is morally bankrupt and that 'they' hold the moral authority. Yet this article says the man involved was a religious teacher and that this concept of offspring ownership, multiple wives and contractual wives is espoused by the Koran. Don't those concepts run counter to high moral standards? Is it true that these are endorsed by the teachings of the Koran?


Dae

posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
but does the Koran really say a father 'owns' his daughters?

Thats a good question. Does anyone know about this? Does it include sexual ownership?


How can Muslims pretend to be the superior moral authority with these kinds of beliefs?


Ouch, pretend? Anyway, really need to get it cleared up about the owning of daughter in a sexual way. Cos yeah, thats pretty much VERY wrong in my moral book.


Multiple wives is a bit dodgy in most societies but 'contractual' wives? You mean it's morally A.O.K to take a wife for a predetermined period of time and then cast her off? Isn't that more like prostitution?


Most things that are the opposite or completely different from our own way of doing something can seem "dodgy". "We" call it bigamy "they" call it marriage.

The "contractual" wife thing is dodgy in my book too, according to your article:

Contractual marriages are not recognised and are invalid.

So Singaporeans see it as dodgy too...

Lets not forget the man is serving time and received 24 strokes of the cane.




posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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it says no such thing in the Quran about a father owning his daughter/children....in ANY way


Dae

posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by geek101
it says no such thing in the Quran about a father owning his daughter/children....in ANY way


Right, didnt think it was the case. So then this is simply a person twisting religion to suit thier own agenda... nothing new there and happens everwhere.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 09:19 AM
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Just some numbers I found, here, if anyone is interested, about the breakdown of religion affliation in prison immates.



Texas Department of Criminal Justice, 1999

Source: Peggy Fikac. "More prison inmates say they're Baptist than any other religion." Associated Press (The Abilene Reporter-News)

Baptist 39,781 30.3%
Unknown* 28,890 22.0%
Catholic 23,637 18.0%
Other 39,009 29.7%
-------- ------- ------
Total 131,316 100.0%

* Unknown: "22 percent are categorized as 'unknown,' representing inmates who didn't say or didn't care when asked for their religious denomination." Most of these would be classified functionally in the "nonreligious" category.

* Other: "The rest of the inmates are divided among the categories of Christian Church, Methodist, Church of Christ, Pentecostal, Muslim, Protestant, Jewish, non-denominational, no religious preference and other."



The data came from Denise Golumbaski, who was a Research Analyst for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The data was compiled from up-to-the-day figures on March 5th, 1997. (Note that as of the year 1999, Analyst Golumbaski is no longer working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons; I had telephoned Analyst Golumbaski to request the latest figures, and was told by another analyst that Golumbaski was no longer employed there.) The data was requested by Mr. Rod Swift, who passed it on to me for my web site. I later called the Federal Bureau of Prisons and confirmed that the data did in fact come from their database.

Catholic 29,267 31.432%
Protestant 26,162 28.097%
None/Atheist/Unknown 18,537 19.908%
Muslim 5,435 5.837%
American Indian 2,408 2.586%
Nation of Islam 1,734 1.862%
Rastafarian 1,485 1.595%
Jewish 1,325 1.423%
Church of Christ 1,303 1.399%
Pentecostal 1,093 1.174%
Moorish 1,066 1.145%
Buddhist 882 0.947%
Jehovah's Witnesses 665 0.714%
Adventist 621 0.667%
Eastern Orthodox 375 0.403%
Latter-day Saints 298 0.320%
Scientology 190 0.204%
Hindu 119 0.128%
Santeria 117 0.126%
Sikh 14 0.015%
Baha'i 9 0.010%
ISKCON 7 0.008%
-------------------- ------ --------
Total 93,112 100.000%



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 09:58 AM
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good grief!

you missed my point completely! The point was that the premise of this original post was pure ignorant drivel as is typically spewed by hate-mongering xenophobes.

The stats that I quoted were really from memory based on conversations I was having with a couple of ministers and our local sheriff about how simply going to church, reading your bible, etc. didn't mean that you would turn out to be a "good" person...

I looked for a reference to check what they had told me and found the same ones that have already been posted.

But, the point is, that criminals come from ALL religious affiliations but they do not tell us anything about the nature of that religion.

I still say this whole started off as a Celebration of Ignorance and serves no useful purpose but, hey! maybe I'm wrong and I'm not a Mod so, it's just my opinion.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Jadette
Just some numbers I found, here, if anyone is interested, about the breakdown of religion affliation in prison immates.


Thanks for that.
It looks like Christians account for about 65% of the US prison population even though they account for about 80% or more of the overall US population.

The Muslims however account for about 7% of the US prison population while only accounting for about 1% of the overall US population.

So much for Al Davison's claim about 90% of US prisoners being Christian.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
good grief!

you missed my point completely!


heh... my sympathies... you're absolutely right...

lets knitpick the detail and not listen to the message...

Q



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 10:27 AM
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Well, in this particular instance, I wasn't trying to nitpick, but rather, as so often happens to me when I read through a thread, I become curious about something or other.

And here, I wondered, just what are the religious affliations of people in prison? So I went looking, and thought that other people as well might be interested in the numbers I found.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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I don't know what all of the issues are with Muslims in Europe but, when it comes to any issue of population size of religion you have to remeber that people actually convert to different religions while in prison. And by the way the stats don't prove either side is morally superior. It just proves that both sides have plenty of criminals.



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