9/11 - What has officially been debunked?, page 4
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reply posted on 20-4-2006 @ 03:16 PM by wecomeinpeace
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Sure, after you provide some calculations or an engineering assessment to support your claim.


I am not a structural engineer and neither are you. However, since the Sudden Freefall Steel Building Collapse Theory is a totally new scientific hypothesis, championed here by you, the onus is therefore on you to provide calculations that show it is possible and that the hypothesis is valid.





The rest of the building, including the West penthouse, is still perfectly intact after the collapse of the smaller Eastern penthouse, which would imply that not only all the exterior columns, but also the middle and Western internal columns were all intact at the time of sudden collapse. Please show us your calculations illustrating how simultaneous, resistance-free collapse of the remaining structure occured. And don't forget the hotspots while you're there. I'm curious how that fits into your theory.


reply posted on 22-4-2006 @ 09:20 AM by ULTIMA1
Ok guys here is something from someone who has some experience in Emergency Incident Management.

As Stated Silverstein would not have any authority over any firefighters movement. If the fire chief thought the scene was getting unsafe at building 7 he would PULL the firefighters out and not have to call Silverstien for permission. The only reason the fire chief would want Siverstiens advise is if the on scene commander thought they should PULL the building.

Also, Maybe someone can explain to us that if thier was so much damage to the side of building 7 how come it came straight down and did not fall to the side.

External Source:
killtown.blogspot.com...

Just what I thought, he gives the "pull out the firefighters" response! "It" referred to "the contingent of firefighters"??? Yeah right! If that was the case, Silverstein would have said "pull them out", not "pull it". No one misspeaks that bad. The word "it" clearly refers to the building (singular), not a "contingent of firefighters" (plural). How condescending that he would refer to a contingent of firefighters as "it".

Also, it's already been reported that the FDNY never sent any firefighter "contingency" inside the WTC 7 and this order was made at 11:30 am...


"With the collapse of both towers by 10:30 a.m., larger pieces of the twin towers had smashed parts of 7 World Trade and set whole clusters of floors ablaze. An hour later, the Fire Department was forced to abandon its last efforts to save the building as it burned like a giant torch.

Falling debris also caused major structural damage to the building, which soon began burning on multiple floors, said Francis X. Gribbon, a spokesman for the Fire Department. By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons." - New York Times (11/29/01)

and then FEMA reported that the FDNY never even attempted to fight the fires in the 7...


"In addition, the firefighters made the decision fairly early on not to attempt to fight the fires, due in part to the damage to WTC 7 from the collapsing towers. Hence, the fire progressed throughout the day fairly unimpeded by automatic or manual suppression activities.

It appears that the sprinklers may not have been effective due to the limited water on site and that the development of the fires was not significantly impeded by the firefighters because manual firefighting efforts were stopped fairly early in the day.

WTC 7 collapsed approximately 7 hours after the collapse of WTC 1. Preliminary indications were that, due to lack of water, no manual firefighting actions were taken by FDNY." - FEMA (05/02)

So there is a conflict of facts here with the Silverstein spokesperson saying the Fire Commander called in the "afternoon" to say firefighters were attempting to contain the fires in the building and the news and FEMA reports saying the firefighters never attempted to put of the fires and had already been called back in the late morning and not "later in the day" as the spokesperson claims.

Firefighter tapes.
www.americanfreepress.net...

Video.
70.84.33.210...

Lost Tapes.
www.firehouse.com...
[edit on 22-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 22-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 22-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]


reply posted on 22-4-2006 @ 01:30 PM by wecomeinpeace
HowardRoark wrote:
...disingenuous at best, and outright deception from those who should know better.

HowardRoark wrote:
You are reaching more and more into the absurd.


This is the sure sign of a weak argument. If you cannot debate without resorting to empty accusations and childish attempts to troll for a reaction, then do not debate at all, you rude person.

So are you claiming that there were two separate collapses? the penthouse and the building? this in spite of the fact that they occurred within seconds of each other and that there is visual evidence of the progression of one to the other? (i.e. windows popping out of frames as the floors shifted).

Yes, it would appear that the collapse of the East penthouse, and the collapse of the rest of the structure are separate events, as there is a distinct gap between the two events. NIST estimates it at 5 seconds.
wtc.nist.gov...
* East Penthouse Sinks
* Further Window Breakage
* No Movement for 5 sec
Global Collapse


The external structure and the Center and West penthouses appear to remain intact until the moment when global collapse occurs. The intact, exterior structure then falls and implodes at a rate equal to free fall acceleration. If this is not the case, please show otherwise. Before 9-11, this effect was only achievable by demolition techniques whereby most or all of the support columns are severed by explosives within a very short time frame, usually milliseconds apart. I'm interested to understand how this occurred with WTC7.



Actually, I'm not sure if you've ever explained your complete theory of how the free fall collapse of WTC7 occurred. Since you are representing the official story/interests here, could you please provide that explanation without further ado, instead of constantly sniping with rude comments at random points which other posters present? You also consistently ignore requests to explain the hotspots under WTC7. Could you include those in your explanation please?

On a side note, the Society of Fire Protection Engineers made some interesting commentary/criticisms re the NIST report.
wtc.nist.gov...




[edit on 2006-4-22 by wecomeinpeace]
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