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Boeing v Airbus; latest scores

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posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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BTW, ElTiante has mentioned an important issue: the Europeans' unwillingness to work. He has already informed us of the fact that the French were rioting. I would like to point out that the Germans are rioting, too. Proof: news.bbc.co.uk...

So yes, the Europeans prefer to riot than to work.

[edit on 29-4-2006 by Zibi]




posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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Actually I am very Boeing person, just look at my mood. However the A320 does seem to have some advantages over the 737, most importantly a bigger passenger cabin.

However the A320 doesn't work as well in higher altitudes. The city where I live is at 2600m above sea level, and A320's often had problems here. Their down time (the time they need to get ready between flights is bigger than the time of the 737), and for airlines that is money.

On the twin aisle models, the 777 beats the A340 in every equivalent plane, period.
it's just a better plane, far more advanced and economical.
Just ask Air France and Emirates that are switching their A340 for 777...



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Zibi
BTW, ElTiante has mentioned an important issue: the Europeans' unwillingness to work. He has already informed us of the fact that the French were rioting. I would like to point out that the Germans are rioting, too. Proof: news.bbc.co.uk...

So yes, the Europeans prefer to riot than to work.

[edit on 29-4-2006 by Zibi]


And? Boeing had a strike too, does that mean Americans are unwilling to work?
You're really reaching to find things to bash Airbus with aren't you.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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:shk:

As Waynos will no doubt attest too I have my issues with Airbus. However, my issues relate to government assistance ie. launch aide et al. (What I like to call "The EU Deal")

As far as the actual planes themselves there is no doubt they make excellent aircraft and have often been at the forefront of technical innovation. Its really that simple. To point out labor strife in France as a reason for Airbus's collapse is such a fallicy of logic its not amusing is simply sad. Boeing has had multiple strikes over the years. As Zaphod points out does this mean Boeing workers are unwilling to work.

AT anyrate labor issues are a whole different topic.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Zibi
I would like to point out that Boeing is likely to win the competition with Airbus for one reason, which is: Airbus has proven that it's unreliable. Airlines from the entire world have ordered A380s, and the delivery of these planes will be delayed. This has proven that Airbus is unreliable.


boeing's been late with aircraft before also.

the 57 and 67 were both rolled out several weeks late. the company who built the testing equipment for boeing was more than 2 months late. this pushed the roll out back.

targets are planned but unplanned down time can cause delays in the future



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by Zibi
I would like to point out that Boeing is likely to win the competition with Airbus for one reason, which is: Airbus has proven that it's unreliable. Airlines from the entire world have ordered A380s, and the delivery of these planes will be delayed. This has proven that Airbus is unreliable.


boeing's been late with aircraft before also.

the 57 and 67 were both rolled out several weeks late. the company who built the testing equipment for boeing was more than 2 months late. this pushed the roll out back.

targets are planned but unplanned down time can cause delays in the future



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
As Zaphod points out does this mean Boeing workers are unwilling to work?

Yes, it does. Considering that Boeing planes are better than Airbus planes, it is sure that Boeing will win the competition against Airbus.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
. Boeing has had multiple strikes over the years. As Zaphod points out does this mean Boeing workers are unwilling to work.

AT anyrate labor issues are a whole different topic.


yes it is a different topic. but if the workers ever adopted a 24/7 rotating schedule i have no doubt that they could cut the cost of production by large chunks.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by bigx01


boeing's been late with aircraft before also........etc



bigx, just reading this post has told me that I owe you an apology from way back.

I had previously assumed that your postion on this sort of subject was born out of an irrational nationalistic 'pro Boeing' stance that wouldn't allow you to see both sides of the argument or the fair minded viewpoint, I may even have said so. Those few words above however immediately illuminated to me how wrong I was and I will try to bear it in mind in future clashes of opinion.



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by waynos

bigx, just reading this post has told me that I owe you an apology from way back.



no problem. i'm just a home town boy that's all.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58

And? Boeing had a strike too, does that mean Americans are unwilling to work?
You're really reaching to find things to bash Airbus with aren't you.


Wrong.

When you look at hours worked, GDP per capita, GDP per worker and any other accepted metric of worker productivity, American workers are burying their euro counterparts and everyone else. US Q1 growth came in at 4.8%! By contrast the euro zone struggles for 1% growth and france and germany can barely do that.

The french were rioting for a job from which they couldn’t be fired. Does that sound like a workforce that is ready for the challenge of a global marketplace? Me neither.

To make matter worse, eruope’s cradle-to-grave socialism has breed a post Christian, nihilistic culture that won’t have children. This has forced them to import a Muslim fifth column. It’s no wonder that the most popular baby name in Amsterdam is Mohamed.

Go ahead and bring up the yesterday’s illegal immigrant protests. First they were protest and not riots and second, the people were protesting for the chance to WORK rather than avoid it.



[edit on 2-5-2006 by El Tiante]



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 01:29 PM
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can't you post this warped rubbish somewhere else? That last post is deliberately inflammatory and the ramblings of a warped fool and nothing more. This is about aircraft, you know? Metal things with wings etc?



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
That last post is deliberately inflammatory and the ramblings of a warped fool

ElTiante has proven you wrong, so now you should admit being wrong, not offend him.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Zibi]



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
can't you post this warped rubbish somewhere else? That last post is deliberately inflammatory and the ramblings of a warped fool and nothing more. This is about aircraft, you know? Metal things with wings etc?


Warped? I'm sure then you can site a factual error? No hurry...

This discussion can't take place outside each country’s respective economic / cultural environment. Europe’s hidebound and extensive market regulations and the huge and growing productivity gap only serve add to airbust’s costs of production. And it’s only going to get worse as the non-Muslim portion of the continent ages.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
This is about aircraft, you know?


That's correct...this is about aircraft.

Not an exercise in sarcasm or name-calling.

Frankly, with the obvious intelligence of most of the regular posters in this forum, through well thought-out and researched posts, it amazes me to repeatedly have to give out warns to members whom I have grown to respect.

Please...stop with the name-calling already...you can say your piece much more effectively without it.
.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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Frankly, seeing what earns waynos a warning, and what has been said about Europe "unwillingness to work" on this thread... Not to mention the near racist comments about Muslim populations... I'm blown away... That's encouraging narrowmindedness.

Cheers from a French guy with a Moroccoan girlfriend... By the way, we both have a job...



See you... Or not.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by echoblade
Frankly, seeing what earns waynos a warning, and what has been said about Europe "unwillingness to work" on this thread... Not to mention the near racist comments about Muslim populations... I'm blown away... That's encouraging narrowmindedness.



You did not call me a fool, nor racist pig or even biased. Because of the way in which you expressed your opinion, I do respect what you had to say.

My only concern is the T&C's which everyone agreed to upon becoming members. If you have a problem with either racism between the members on this thread or the manner of my moderation, then I suggest you hit the gripe button and bring it to the attention of the Administrators and Supermods.

This thread is not the place for it.

.grammer edit

[edit on 2-5-2006 by masqua]



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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Hmm, I notice I got a warning for calling that post the ramblings of a warped fool. Am I to take it then that the site staff of ATS considers a post that calls me a 'post christian nihilist who wont have children' fair and reasonable? The mind boggles! And as for all that 'muslim fifth columnist' garbage, that is a sane assessment?





Warped? I'm sure then you can site a factual error? No hurry...


I don't need to because what was posted what inflammatory trash, without a factual bone in its body. I notice this deeply offensive post goes unchecked while my own angry response to it earned me a warning, hmmm, something faintly fascist about that I think? I thought the T&C's were meant to safeguard against members being offended? Maybe it only protects the rights of some people to be offensive to others without having to face the backlash?

I do not apologise for my response and I maintain that anyone making a post in the manner that el tiante did should EXPECT such a response.





ElTiante has proven you wrong, so now you should admit being wrong, not offend him.


Er, where? He did not even address any point that I made so how does that work? And for the record he offended me.

I would certainly hit the gripe button if I knew where it was.

masqua;




Not an exercise in sarcasm or name-calling.


except when its aimed at an entire culture then?And el tiante has been doing it for a while. That smacks of hypocrisy to me. Or would that observation get me banned?


I guess that last remark is me done then.

Bye to everyone, its been a blast.


[edit on 2-5-2006 by waynos]



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
Hmm, I notice I got a warning for calling that post the ramblings of a warped fool.


You got the warning for the last word of that sentence...you called another member a 'fool'. everything else was just Jim Dandy


I thought the T&C's were meant to safeguard against members being offended?


As I was born in Holland, I suppose I should be offended like you seem to be(all my family is still there)...however, I'm not because it was not directed at anyone personally, but rather a generalization...much unlike calling me or anyone else a 'fool'.


anyone making a post in the manner that el tiante did should EXPECT such a response


Perhaps your response should not be directed to ElTiante personally by the use of the word 'fool' and instead be focussed on the idea that was expressed in the post.

The suggestion button above is how you may complain about my behaviour in this thread, waynos. Also, if you prefer, we can take this to U2U.



posted on May, 2 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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No need to take it to u2u, I know why I got warned. Although the remark was aimed at the content of the post as in 'those are the words one would expect from a warped fool' rather than 'you are a warped fool' but I typed it in anger and I know how it reads so no argument there.

You may not find the original post offensive, but I do, or maybe its the repetitive nature of it that wound me up so much and you haven't seen these before?



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