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Originally posted by Shadowflux
And Aelita, give it up, I'm not arguing with you anymore and your one line responses are an insult to those of us who actually put effort into our posts.
Originally posted by Shadowflux
Why don't you go play The Spock Market I've found that to be a fun way of wasting time
Originally posted by Shadowflux
I guess that's what I get for trying to debate with someone who doesn't understand sarcasm.
You do realize that you're coming off as rather argumentative and anti-social?
Originally posted by Shadowflux
Refresh my memory, at what point was I tyring to defend the nazis?
the other problem lies in the fact that the Russians did as much liquidating of the camps as the Germans did. A great many German soldiers up and left the camps with all the residents inside, when the Russians came to "liberate" the camps they marched the Jews into the woods and murdered them all. This was why we were so adamant about liberating the camps ourselves.
Originally posted by Aelita
According to you, Russians far surpassed the merciful Germans in trying to exterminate the Jews. Again, I repeat that this is a lie. How sweet: Germans left "all the residdents inside". However, the Russian Horde did not hesitate to slaughter the Jewish "residents" because of their hate of Jews. They were so adamant on carrying out the Holocaust when Germans left. Right?
What pile of BS.
On April 4, 1945, American soldiers of the 4th Armored Division of General Patton's US Third Army were moving through the area south of the city of Gotha in search of a secret Nazi communications center when they unexpectedly came across the ghastly scene of the abandoned Ohrdruf prison labor camp.
July 24, 1944 - At Lublin in Poland, Red Army soldiers discovered the abandoned Majdanek extermination camp, the first major camp to be liberated.
On April 28, 1945 the SS abandoned the camp
The inmates were abandoned in Bergen-Belsen by the Germans
Originally posted by decidedlyundecided
Wow Aelita, you’re right, Russian soldiers at that time really were the merciful champions of virtue you describe.
I suggest the next time you feel the need to go on a one person crusade to save the name of your people you do a little more research. Because honestly, it’s just embarrassing for all of us to see you go down in flames due to your own lack of information.
He mentioned Russia twice in his entire post.
There are not, however, enough people like Shadowflux who put extensive time and effort into being knowledgeable about a subject.
10,000 men had lived and slaved at Ohrdruf. Near the end, the SS had marched the prisoners to other camps, known as death marches, or killed them. Ohrdruf was a minor sub-camp of Buchenwald, and on the edge of the camp was a gigantic pit, where the Nazi's had stacked bodies and wood and burned them. Ohrdruf had actually been discovered by accident. After the Americans had taken the town where part of the communications center was located, reconnoitering troops found the main gate to the camp just over the crest of a small hill. Corpses in striped uniforms were found right inside the gate. Some found were alive, others long since dead.
Originally posted by Aelita
However, your failure to substantiate a claim speaks for itself.
a specific peice of knowledge about when, where and in how many prison camps the Russians took every Jew to the woods and machine gunned them to death. I'm really just curious.
War crimes trials are characterized by the assumption that rules of evidence are a technicality designed to enable the guilty to evade punishment. In fact, however, their purpose is to protect tribunals from errors in judgement.
Centuries ago, it was common to prosecute women for performing sexual acts with the Devil. These acts were described in minute detail in thousands of trials, in millions of pages of sworn testimony. It was established, for example, that Satan's ejaculatory fluid is cold.
Thousands of women stood fast in their confessions to the very foot of the stake, proving the truth of the matter stated; others recanted, proving the contumacy of the Tempter.
Thousands of men were burned for signing a Compact with the Prince of Darkness. This was a written contract, binding on both parties, the exact text of which was known to jurists for centuries; yet the original document was never found. Secondary evidence was accepted as to its existence and content.
Satan's existence was proven by his many appearances in the form of a cat or a goat; his failure to fulfil his contractual obligations was seen as a simple breach of faith.
Scientific experiments were performed. Women known to have participated in the Black Mass were found not have left their beds during the night, proving that transportation is spiritual, rather than physical.
Professional witnesses denounced thousands of people; defendants were condemned on the basis of ex parte affidavits signed by unknown persons; hallucinations and dreams were introduced into evidence in sworn statements.
Persons defending the accused could only be motivated by secret sympathy with Satan's conspiracy or Common Plan.
Respected people entered prison defiant, confident that God would prove them innocent; only to emerge a month later, prepared to confess publicly and be burned alive for kissing the anus of a goat.
Similar procedures and rules of evidence were used after the last war to convict Germans of killing millions of Jews in a toxicologically absurd manner, using an insecticide requiring 24 hours to kill moths.
The same Red prosecutors who framed the victims of Stalin's purges at the Moscow show trials, and sent millions of innocents to their deaths in our gallant Soviet ally's Gulag archipelago, are the chief source for the vaunted Nuremberg evidence of the "Holocaust."
~ Carlos Porter MIR: The Holocaust
Originally posted by decidedlyundecided
Originally posted by Aelita
However, your failure to substantiate a claim speaks for itself.
well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.
Listen, Aelita, you have carried out this "debate" so long and strayed so far from what the original intention of this thread has been, i really don't even know what you are asking for anymore.
do you want
a specific peice of knowledge about when, where and in how many prison camps the Russians took every Jew to the woods and machine gunned them to death. I'm really just curious.
I will indeed look for information that even you will comprehend
Meanwhile, i have an interesting book for you to read if this is the case.
it's called
Made in Russia: The Holocaust
On balance, however, Made in Russia: The Holocaust is a book with something of value for every reader with an interest in Revisionism.
It purports that much of the "atrocities" commited by the Germans we widely exaggerated by the Russians. In my own opinion, to cast light away from their own unspeakable acts.
Centuries ago, it was common to prosecute women for performing sexual acts with the Devil. These acts were described in minute detail in thousands of trials, in millions of pages of sworn testimony. It was established, for example, that Satan's ejaculatory fluid is cold.
Aelita, as i go in search of the hard evidance you so desperately seek, i will leave you with this information to mull over.
I implore you to thoroughly read through both links, then remind me what it is you're trying to prove.
The Katyn massacre, also known as the Katyn Forest Massacre and the Katyn Incident (Polish: Katyń), was a mass execution of Polish citizens by the order of Soviet authorities in 1940.[1] Estimates of the number of Polish citizens executed at three mass-murder sites in the spring of 1940 range from some 1,803 [2] through 14,540[3][4],and through 21,857 [1] to 27,700.[5] Most of those killed were reserve officers taken prisoner during the 1939 Polish September Campaign, but the dead also included many civilians who had been arrested for being "intelligence agents and gendarmes, spies and saboteurs, former landowners, factory owners and officials".[6] Since Poland's conscription system required every unexempted university graduate to become a reserve officer,[7] the Soviets were thus able to round up much of the Polish, Jewish, Ukrainian and Belarusian intelligentsias of Polish citizenship.
The 1943 discovery of mass graves at Katyn Forest by Germany, after its armed forces had occupied the site in 1941, precipitated a 1943 rupture of diplomatic relations between the Soviet Union and the Polish government-in-exile in London. The Soviet Union continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990, when it acknowledged that the NKVD had in fact committed the massacres and the subsequent cover-up.[8] The Russian government has admitted Soviet responsibility for the massacres. It does not call them a war crime or an act of genocide, which would have necessitated the prosecution of surviving perpetrators.[3] Some Russians continue to believe the original explanation that was maintained by the Soviet government until 1989, that it had been the Germans who had killed the Poles after invading the Soviet Union in mid-1941.[1]
The killings were methodical. After the condemned's personal information was checked, he was then handcuffed and led to a cell insulated with a felt-lined door. The sounds of the murderers were also masked by the operation of loud machines (perhaps fans) throughout the night. After being taken into the cell, the victim was immediately shot in the back of the head. His body was then taken out through the opposite door and laid in one of the five or six waiting trucks, whereupon the next condemned was taken inside. The procedure went on every night, except for the May Day holiday.[citation needed] Near Smolensk, the Poles, with their hands tied behind their backs, were led to the graves and shot in the neck.
Even though many of the Old Bolsheviks were ethnically Jewish, they sought to uproot Judaism and Zionism and established the Yevsektsiya to achieve this goal. By the end of the 1940s the Communist leadership of the former USSR had liquidated almost all Jewish organizations, with the exception of a few token synagogues. These synagogues were then placed under police surveillance, both openly and through the use of informants.
On April 1, 1983, the CPSU official newspaper Pravda ran full front page article titled From the Soviet leadership:
"...By its nature, Zionism concentrates ultra-nationalism, chauvinism and racial intolerance, excuse for territorial occupation and annexation, military opportunism, cult of political promiscuousness and irresponsibility, demagogy and ideological diversion, dirty tactics and perfidy... Absurd are attempts of Zionist ideologists to present criticizing them, or condemning the aggressive politics of the Israel's ruling circles, as antisemitic... We call on all Soviet citizens: workers, peasants, representatives of intelligentsia: take active part in exposing Zionism, strongly rebuke its endeavors; social scientists: activate scientific research to criticize reactionary core of that ideology and aggressive character of its political practice; writers, artists, journalists: fuller expose anti-populace and anti-humane diversionary character of propaganda and politics of Zionism..."
If you read the links that Our Resident Holocaust Expert Extraordinaire, Dr.Shadowflux, had kindly provided, you'll see some amazing facts of how seasoned American generals became physically sick when they saw that Germans had done to their prisoners.
Again, the sources you provide (at least one of the links) suggest that the seasoned killers aka SS officers had stronger stomachs than you imply, otherwise they'd throwing up all the time and wouldn't have been a good enough shape to commit all teh outrages they did commit.
Originally posted by Seekerof
Considering that estimates for the numbers of Jews killed during the Holocaust vary between 4-9+ million, and the number for non-Jews vary between 4-7 million
Originally posted by zerotolerance
Damn, I didn't know those figures. Then how come all we mainly hear about was the Jewish Holocaust? You know, the 6 million exterminated? Why is it we hardly ever hear about all the Gentiles that died in it as well? I've been under the impression (maybe cause of the media) that it was all Jewish people. Wow!