The only other safe place in the solar system

So really thinking about it, Mars just isn't going to cut it. No Magnetic field to protect us, even with terraforming thats just the surface, its not going to start a core spinning (that was just a movie). At least not anytime soon.

a more logical choice is one step further. Jupiter. not necesarily the planet, but any one of the more calm moons or even a space station. All the moons, or the majority of them are withing Jupiter massive magnetic field.

Also if we humans ever do get to the point where we can build permanet colonies on other planets it would be nice to be around more than 70% of all the matter in the solar system excluding the sun. Right next to the asteroid belt for minings rocks and metals. gasses can be siphoned off jupiter. I believe there is a moon with hydrocarbon seas. Also the next planet over is Saturn and its myraid of moons.

Needless to say the sun will be little more than a beacon, but Jupiter will become the new sun for a new generation. Its immense gravity will suck up any asteroids that may hit its moons, or a large portion of them.

If we do miraculously outlive the sun, jupiter will be far enough away from its final expansion.

There's one big problem. Jupiter emits far too much radiation for humans to exist on the surface of its four major moons.

when our sun dies the human race will already have colonies in distant galaxys, (we will be having dinner with klingons)!!

jupitor isn't all that spectualar, theres only been an handful of planets discovered OUTSIDE our solar system (30ish i think) and some of the gas giants that have been discovered are twice the size of jupiter (how big are the others)?

i think within the next 50 years (when that new telescope is launched) we will discover that our solar system (9/10 planets) isn't as unique as earth history tells us.

if 2 planets out of 9, once and STILL exists life (mars and earth).

theres is a good chance other planets will have formed life, how many of those planets will be earth like planets?

if thats the case then in 4 billion years time (when our sun dies) why would we even need this solar system?

we may even have found out a way to put an 'artifical sun' in the sky or a protective shield that will be able to withstand a 'red giant' (that our sun will become).

will human race still be here in 4 billion years time? - (it was only 15 years ago the cold war was on)

and with all the trouble in the world right now the human race might just end up like the dinosaurs!!

then we may ACTAULLY find a new evolved species from earth reaching the stars (4 billion years is enough time for them to do that)!!

who knows what can happen.












[edit on 19-4-2006 by st3ve_o]

I'm still holdin' out for a "doppelganger" 180 degress from us on our orbital plane. Ever see the movie of the same name? Late '60's or early '70's - low budget but with a great story.

Originally posted by vor78
There's one big problem. Jupiter emits far too much radiation for humans to exist on the surface of its four major moons.

Excellent point.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
jupitor isn't all that spectualar, theres only been an handful of planets discovered OUTSIDE our solar system (30ish i think)

Actually, as of about a year ago there have been 155 discovered. That was the most recent information I found, from here: California & Carnegie Planet Search (but I also didn't get past the first Google result )

if 2 planets out of 9, once and STILL exists life (mars and earth).

1 out of 9.

Originally posted by V Kaminski
I'm still holdin' out for a "doppelganger" 180 degress from us on our orbital plane.

No, it's impossible. It would be detected graviationally. Also, why haven't our satelites ahead/behind the Earth in orbit seen it? What about the others we have that would cross through that point in space? It would at least throw them way off course, if we didn't spot it any other way.

There's one big problem. Jupiter emits far too much radiation for humans to exist on the surface of its four major moons.

Nope, but Saturn on the other hand...We cannot live on the surface of the planet or its satellites.
We MAY, however, be able to thrive BENEATH the surface of Titan.
It is belived to be covered in ice, hundreds of kilometers thick.
This acts as an adequate athmospere, shielding the it from nasty stuff like radiation. Beneath the ice is believed to be liquid. WARM liquid. Warm because the ice acts like the greenhouse effect. Any heat produced under the surface would be trapped. Thus resulting in a nice, warm, protected
habitat.








[edit on 25-01-2004 by Gear]

Originally posted by Gear
You are wrong. You are also right.
We cannot live on the surface of the planet or its satellites.
We MAY, however, be able to thrive BENEATH the surface of Titan.
It is belived to be covered in ice, hundreds of kilometers thick.
This acts as an adequate athmospere, shielding the it from nasty stuff like radiation. Beneath the ice is believed to be liquid. WARM liquid. Warm because the ice acts like the greenhouse effect. Any heat produced under the surface would be trapped. Thus resulting in a nice, warm, protected
habitat.

Since vor78 is offline, I'll come to his/her defense... It was never said that we couldn't live below the surface. In fact, I assumed that what was said it was implied that we could live below the surface.

If anything, you're wrong. Titan is a moon of Saturn.

Reads...

So really thinking about it, Mars just isn't going to cut it. No Magnetic field to protect us, even with terraforming thats just the surface, its not going to start a core spinning (that was just a movie). At least not anytime soon.

a more logical choice is one step further. Jupiter. not necesarily the planet, but any one of the more calm moons or even a space station. All the moons, or the majority of them are withing Jupiter massive magnetic field.

Also if we humans ever do get to the point where we can build permanet colonies on other planets it would be nice to be around more than 70% of all the matter in the solar system excluding the sun. Right next to the asteroid belt for minings rocks and metals. gasses can be siphoned off jupiter. I believe there is a moon with hydrocarbon seas. Also the next planet over is Saturn and its myraid of moons.

Needless to say the sun will be little more than a beacon, but Jupiter will become the new sun for a new generation. Its immense gravity will suck up any asteroids that may hit its moons, or a large portion of them.

If we do miraculously outlive the sun, jupiter will be far enough away from its final expansion.

Nope, don't see anything about the specification of living on a surface, nor the exclusion of under one.

There's one big problem. Jupiter emits far too much radiation for humans to exist on the surface of its four major moons.

You assumed that the above statement IMPLIED that it was possible to survive UNDER the surface? Wow. You read into things way WAY too much.
so much to extent where you imagine lines that aren't there.

f anything, you're wrong. Titan is a moon of Saturn.

Yeah, I realised that & edited already, hoping nobody would see. lol

I did assume that these would be surface colonies, but underground colonies probably wouldn't work either. Jupiter's gravity places such a high level of tidal stress on the moons that they may be all but uninhabitable for human civilization. Io is the most obvious example. It is basically being turned inside out by the tidal forces being placed upon it. Its certainly not as severe on Ganymede and Callisto, but still is a potential issue. Its not a problem on Europa, but that moon presents its own set of problems as the subsurface is likely an ocean of some sort created by the tidal effects of Jupiter's gravity.

So really thinking about it, Mars just isn't going to cut it. No Magnetic field to protect us, even with terraforming thats just the surface, its not going to start a core spinning (that was just a movie). At least not anytime soon.

Bah, who needs a natural magnetic field? Just generate one using huge coils hooked up to a fission or fusion reactor. I've been thinking of a plan to actually make Mars semi-habitable within a couple of centuries, and if our technological progress continues at the pace it has been over the past 30 years then it would be technological feasible if not actually probable.

The following is a complete work of fiction, which makes many assumptions on our technological sophitication in the early years of the twenty-second century. Debunkers and Critics are asked to keep an open mind.

Also keep in mind that this is just a copy and paste of another post made by me in another thread and will be posted here as is with no editing so it may be a 'lil rough, with a few mistakes.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The way I would go about it is like this. First when we start colonizing Mars, we should develop a plan to cover the entire surface with interlocking Mushroom shaped buildings. Thin at the bottom, getting thicker as you get closer to the head, approximately five kilometers in height at the top, with tether towers attached to space tethers going up to geostationary orbit. The thin stalk before and at the 1 km point, will be approximately 1 km in radius, with supports attached to the ground or adjesant stalks and attached to the stalk every 50 meters or so for added strength, mass transit purposes, freight, etc.

Rocks and Dust is processed by the bottom level factories for it's Nitrogen and Oxygen content as well as CO2 and other atmospheric gasses that is presant on earth and pumped underneath the canopy. At first most of these gasses will escape into the atmosphere and then eventually escape from the planet. The key trick here is to pump in more than escapes.

The next method of accelorating the process is by mining asteroids and sending the products down the space tethers, which every mushroom head will have at least a couple. This would require extensive space infrastructure, but assuming the Space Tether works as promised then that should be a snap.

When a large enough area is under the cover of the Canopy, then they will start sealing it off from the outside so that gasses start to accumulate. Light will be a holographic sun and blue sky hiding various giant lamps stationed every so often. Then when the gasses become tolerable for human life, start colonizing and pump any additional gasses into the atmosphere, while researching ways to stop it from leaving the atmosphere alltogether. A bias should be given for farming in the first few artificial enclosed ecosystems.

When the colony is all setup, start renovating whole floors of the mushroom heads to hold vast tanks of water or some other radiation shielding substance.

We're Terraforming, so we should make the experience as much like Earth as possible.

Mars will most likely never be self sufficient at it is a lot smaller then Earth.

The point here is to completely sidestep the whole problem of escaping gasses by basically shutting mars, or a good portion of it, off to the effects of it's mass and the sun. This will probably take a couple hundred years, maybe even faster with advanced nanotechnological assembly and robotics.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Excellent point.

It is? Please explain it to me.

Actually, as of about a year ago there have been 155 discovered. That was the most recent information I found, from here: California & Carnegie Planet Search (but I also didn't get past the first Google result

)

And there might be ten times as many around just the( edit in response to sardions post individual stars they have so far looked at as with current technology we can only 'spot' them when their over a certain size and moving in certain planes.

1 out of 9.

2.

No, it's impossible. It would be detected graviationally. Also, why haven't our satelites ahead/behind the Earth in orbit seen it? What about the others we have that would cross through that point in space? It would at least throw them way off course, if we didn't spot it any other way.

Got to agree that even thought i think the solar system is far stranger than planetary scientist say it is THAT really is reaching.

Stellar

[edit on 23-4-2006 by StellarX]

And there might be ten times as many around just the stars they so far looked at as with current technology we can only 'spot' them when their over a certain size and moving in certain planes.

Well according to recent statistical analysis, there may be as many as 35 Billion stars that have at least one rocky planet in orbit. That's a helluva lot of stars. If only 0.01% of them have habitable planets(for humans that is), then that's 3.5 million earth like planets out there in just our galaxy. Of course that's just a guesstimate on my part.

[edit on 23-4-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Gear
You assumed that the above statement IMPLIED that it was possible to survive UNDER the surface? Wow. You read into things way WAY too much.
so much to extent where you imagine lines that aren't there.

Well all of the research I've done, books I've read, and people I've talked with have all said that living deep below the surface could be plausible. Of course, not now, but when we have the technology. It would also depend on the tidal stresses, as vor78 said, but we don't know enough about them yet to know if it would be possible.

So, I figured it was a safe assumption to make. I was wrong though, but I guess that that's what makes me human. Go figure.

Originally posted by StellarX
It is? Please explain it to me.

Jupiter's magnetosphere is VERY large and gives of huge amounts of radiation. If you wer exposed to it, either in a spacecraft or on/near the surface of a moon, you would no doubt die of radiation poisoning in a short while.

And there might be ten times as many around just the( edit in response to sardions post

individual stars they have so far looked at as with current technology we can only 'spot' them when their over a certain size and moving in certain planes.

That's correct. If they're large enough and close enough to the star, we can detect graviational anomylies in the star. Then we can confirm the existence of a planet only if we see it cross the disk of the star.

2.

Well, until there is actual, hardcore, scientific evidence for life elsewhere in the Solar System, I'll maintain that there is only one planet that has had and does have life on it. Of course, if you can point out something, other than pure speculation, that there was/is life anywhere else it would be much appreciated.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Jupiter's magnetosphere is VERY large and gives of huge amounts of radiation. If you wer exposed to it, either in a spacecraft or on/near the surface of a moon, you would no doubt die of radiation poisoning in a short while.

We in fact understand very little about radiation and it's effects on the human body and what little we do is commonly suppressed to scare us to death of nuclear weapons and nuclear energy.

www.abovetopsecret.com... and even if the levels were all that high i propose we could figure out some method of protection if we cared to go or live there.

That's correct. If they're large enough and close enough to the star, we can detect graviational anomylies in the star. Then we can confirm the existence of a planet only if we see it cross the disk of the star.

And i love agreeing with people as that means their well informed.

Well, until there is actual, hardcore, scientific evidence for life elsewhere in the Solar System, I'll maintain that there is only one planet that has had and does have life on it.

Well Mars according to our best knowledge does have some kind of biological activity meaning there is life. The very first tests(LR =Yes, PR=yes, GEX=Yes GCMS=No) was positive but due to another test malfunctioning (GCMS could not detect life in Antarctica when later tested) they decided to call it 'inconclusive' instead of saying that what worked met their test requirements for showing 'life' ; at least as we know it on earth.

Of course, if you can point out something, other than pure speculation, that there was/is life anywhere else it would be much appreciated.

Hey i have on a few occasions on this forum but i guess you did not see my attempts. The methane remaining in the Martian atmosphere is a strong indication of at the VERY least past life on Mars ( almost all methane on earth comes from some sort of biological activity) and considering the current concentrations it's still only 100 - 170 times less parts per billion.

I wont even start on the fact that at least a few agencies said that they have detected chlorophyll; in the 60's( funnily is when they first said they found signs of Methane which was 'confirmed' by 'experts' in 2004)!

I have rather large volumes of information ready but i always find it fascinating to see people make the choices they do when it comes to things the do not yet believe. The floor is yours but do try avoid the bad boards.

Stellar

Originally posted by st3ve_o
when our sun dies the human race will already have colonies in distant galaxys, (we will be having dinner with klingons)!!
[edit on 19-4-2006 by st3ve_o]

Laugh, I must agree. I think the sun 'dying' is the absolute LEAST of our worries. We have what, a few billion years left before that happens? Considering they believe that our earth has only been there for that long, or maybe even not as long as it will be before the sun grows and then 'deflates', I believe space exploration because of the potential of the sun burning out is stupid. We should be more directly worried with finding new places with resources that we need that are being consumed WAY faster than are being replenished. Also, if the population of the earth continues to rise, we are going to wear out the Earth WAY too fast, and will need other alternatives. As someone before said, I believe Jupiter emits far too much radiation to sustain life near it. I actually think one of our better bets would not be a planet in our own solar system, but instead wait until we have ships that can travel to these other solar systems; and once there, seek planets that can sustain life. Mars might have been a hope many years ago, but seems useless now, even if there even was once life there.

Well Mars according to our best knowledge does have some kind of biological activity meaning there is life. The very first tests(LR =Yes, PR=yes, GEX=Yes GCMS=No) was positive but due to another test malfunctioning (GCMS could not detect life in Antarctica when later tested) they decided to call it 'inconclusive' instead of saying that what worked met their test requirements for showing 'life' ; at least as we know it on earth.

theres also 'Europa' so there may well be 3 places in our solar system that exists (or once existed) life.






[edit on 26-4-2006 by st3ve_o]

There are a myriad of things that could wipe us out on a daily basis no matter
where we were in this Universe. Let's face it it's a dangerous place. Just the fact that we still exist is extraordinary luck in my opinion.

I think most life and civilizations in this universe only exist for a fleeting moment, and then are gone forever.