ATS Should not be tolerating this Racism

Racism is ignorant as well as reverse racism in which someone states that "the only reason you dont want them here is because they are mexicans" Chissler himself said that exact same thing in the subway post which i found to be offensive but shrugged off as ATS banter.

Please show me where I posted anything of that sort. If anything was mentioned like that in my posts it was quoted from another member.

If your going to quote members, actually quote them.
[quote] [/quote]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by chissler]

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

how are your destiny [ what you are born as ] , and your choices [ how you live your life ] any different ??? to sugesst that the hand you are dealt should be treated any differently from the cards you pull from the pack is frankly absurd .

When you make a choice, you are given different options, decide among them, then live with your decision. If the question comes up, you should defend your position (or not, it's your choice). When you are born, your skin color and place of birth are not your choice. There is no way to defend it. No need either. Rligion is a choice, race is not.

Originally posted by crmanager

We are are illegal immigrants on YOUR people's land? OMG

You have big brass ones my friend.

You are an immigrant so you are illegal also.

First of all, yes I do....but what does my genitilia have to do with anything? I guess you didn't read the rest of my post when I agreed with the part about not redefining history? Actually, once born in this country, you are not an illegal immigrant. So, both my statement and your statement are wrong.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by NotClever
While I agree 100% with chissler, a small part of me wants the racists to mouth-off. It provides the opportunity to publicize their buffoonery and make examples of them by blowing up their ridiculous attitudes.

Simply shutting out racism and ethnicism doesn't make the problem go away. It simply becomes more overt. I say let them spew in any medium they choose so that those of us who really ponder issues can expose their damage to society.

NC

This gets a WATS from me. You beat me to it. I was ready to post this exact idea, only it's not a "small part" of me that feels that way. I've got all the appreciation in the world for the "fine line" (as Springer put it) that ATS has to walk to moderate such issues. I couldn't do it. I'm inclined to want to let people spout off to their heart's content. They're only showing their own ignorance. And maybe through some discourse, they can be shown the error of their poisonous attitudes.

Yes, illegal immigration is, well, illegal. But laws that can't be enforced properly, and are openly flauted, and are not only unfair, but indefensible, are also bad.

I don't know what the answer is. But I know blaming and attacking the immigrants isn't it.

Originally posted by Escrotomus
convert my neighborhood with foreign signs and trash it up as a general rule with their 3rd world living habits....and....convert my neighborhood with their foreign signs and trash it up then they have to go

From Escrotomus' signature...
that person has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress

I have never seen anyone prove their own point as fast as that.

NC

Do people realize that immigrants are not all Mexican? If so, it does not show on many posts. Immigrants come from all walks of life and from “different” parts of the world; not just from down south across the border. I’m pleased to be from a country (United States) with so much bio diversity. What ever is your flavor, America can provide? This applies to many things including food, women and men. Variety is the spice of life. I would die of monotony and boredom if that was not the case. To be against immigrants is like denying your own roots. Unless, you are a Native American; I’m talking to you.

On one of the closed threads someone posted that Mexican’s are dark and short. Since you know, no better; I suggest taking a trip and/or vacation to Mexico. The diversity there is greater than in the United States. People there come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by NotClever
While I agree 100% with chissler, a small part of me wants the racists to mouth-off. It provides the opportunity to publicize their buffoonery and make examples of them by blowing up their ridiculous attitudes.

Simply shutting out racism and ethnicism doesn't make the problem go away. It simply becomes more overt. I say let them spew in any medium they choose so that those of us who really ponder issues can expose their damage to society.

NC

This gets a WATS from me. You beat me to it. I was ready to post this exact idea, only it's not a "small part" of me that feels that way. I've got all the appreciation in the world for the "fine line" (as Springer put it) that ATS has to walk to moderate such issues. I couldn't do it. I'm inclined to want to let people spout off to their heart's content. They're only showing their own ignorance. And maybe through some discourse, they can be shown the error of their poisonous attitudes.

Yes, illegal immigration is, well, illegal. But laws that can't be enforced properly, and are openly flauted, and are not only unfair, but indefensible, are also bad.

I don't know what the answer is. But I know blaming and attacking the immigrants isn't it.

Hear! Hear!

The immigrants are, after all, only trying to do the best for themselves and their families. Should you shoot someone because the law gives them the opportunity (rightly or wrongly) to feed their children?

Change the laws by all means - but the immigrants themselves are (by and large) themselves only victims.

Incidently here in the UK many of our illegal immigrants are smuggled in by gangs who charge a fortune and promise freedom, but then force the immigrants into slave labour or prostitution.

And, for what it's worth, my town has a disproportionately large percentage of immigrant workers - many from Poland, South Africa and Iraq - who come here to work the local fruit farm. So I do know what it's like. But they cause no trouble whatsoever. I'm proud to welcome them to my town, to a peaceful and safe country and show them how society can and should work

this is crap.

by what standard are we judged so that the immigrants can do whatever they please but we aren't allowed to defend the interests of our national laws and economy?

asking white and black people to sit down and let hispanics do whatever they please is far more racist than opposing illegal immigration.

and griff-- i have never seen more colossal arrogance in my life.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
this is crap.

by what standard are we judged so that the immigrants can do whatever they please but we aren't allowed to defend the interests of our national laws and economy?

If somebody is breaking the law, they should be prosecuted regardless of skin color, nationality, whatever.

What has been happening lately is complete ignorance, and derogatory comments directed at different cultures simply for the culture they live in. ATS is about denying ignorance, this thread is hoping to deny the ignorance alot of members have been posting.

People posting it is wrong for a man from Mexico to recieve a job over an American, on the basis that he is an American and more deserving.

This is not a debate over whether or not immigration is right or wrong.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram


and griff-- i have never seen more colossal arrogance in my life.

Huh? What, about my statements have been arrogant? That my ancestors used to own this land before the whiteman? or is it the genitilia reference....if it's the latter...I was joking. Jeez.

Thanks for posting this Chissler! You got a wats from me as well.


I just dont get this whole issue, and frankly i get sick just thinking about it.
I mean aren't we all just human??? Why should any person be killed for
trying to feed themselves or their loved ones? Wouldn't you do anything
in your power to protect your own family??? It's ridiculous to think this
way.

As a side note, I have some intersting information. When i became a US
citizen i was required to get printed by the FBI just like everyone that goes
thru this process. When filling out the paper work I noticed that hispanics
were not listed as a race. It was actually a subcategory underneath caucasians.
I am very perplexed by this to this day. I dont really think this means much
of anything. But the way I see it is that our own US government is classifing the
two clashing bulls genetically closer to one another. So why is it, even though
legally these to groups are in the same bag, that they are being antogonized to
hate each other so much?

I think people would take those who proclaim to "defend the interests of our national laws and economy" more seriously if they actually did. Where were you "defenders" when blue collar america was crippled by corporate outsourcing? Where were you "defenders" when the corrupt politicians we currently are stuck with were voted into office?



This isn't about jobs.
This isn't about the economy.
This isn't about the law.
This is about the easily exploitable xenophobia that certain American's are known for.

Just for the record, the almighty creator of ATS is an immigrant to the USA.

Originally posted by Springer
It's a fine line to draw for us and the day we decide to remove content simply because it's "impolite" and not in violation of the T.A.C. is the day we become less than what we built the site for.
[edit on 4-18-2006 by Springer]

amen!!!

this is why this man is part owner of this site...

great great words, really

Welcome to the good ole' USA Simon. Pleased to have you here. I wasn't aware that you lived over here. Heck though, for all I know you could be one of my Brit friends and I'd not know...unless your name is really Simon Gray. Not sure on that either, but anyway, welcome.

Originally posted by SimonGray
Just for the record, the almighty creator of ATS is an immigrant to the USA.

Wow Simon, you moved to the US? What state do you live in?

I thought you were still in the U.K. :T

Originally posted by SimonGray
Just for the record, the almighty creator of ATS is an immigrant to the USA.

You mean, you've left Old England?!?

back to the topic at hand, ive heard A LOT worse throughout my years here. Some threads got dubbed "KKK rally's" and i remember every thread that involved Irsael or Zionism got turned into a Jew bashing session...and Islam is treated shocking on this board, some of the threads are on par with far right boards.

But, racist threads are always delt with here and members tend not to bite to "drama bombs" involving racist and twisted views

Dude think of it this way......

You have no trespassing signs around your piece of property and house, but your neighborhood seems it has more opportunities and services than my neighborhood. I move on to your property into your house.

I will expect to be recognized as part of your family, and be afforded the rights of being in your family.

I expect to get Christmas presents and some bed time stories.

I get your kids chores money, because I am asking $2.00 dollars a week instead of your kids regular of $10.00 a week.

Your "legal birth" kids no longer have money and are out of work.

The $2.00 allowance for chores (that is untaxed by Mom) that I got under the dinner table from Dad ("Working for the Man"), is partially sent to my old family on the South side of the town. This money is kept out of our neighborhood's economy, and helps my old neighborhood's economy. If this money was taxed in my new nieghborhood it could help support my now unemployed brother that lost his job to me.


Now if I tried to be adopted to my new neighborhood and family legally.....It could have helped out my new neighborhood's economy, and become a productive member of society.


All are people are welcome to the neighborhood.

But don't ignore the no trespassing signs, just because it is easy. Why not try to do it the right way first.

Why not try to put the effort to get your neighborhood fixed up first, as that is where your roots are.

I will say it again all people are welcome to the neighborhood, but please try to play by the rules.


P.S. Can I really move into your house now?

And yes this above statement is just an example of one side of a many faceted story. If I was born somewhere else I would probably try to come to the USA for some opportunities.

Ok, and if no one wants to recognize national borders because we are all human. I agree, we are all homo sapiens; and trying to better ourselves is a good thing. But what is the point of having countries then? And the laws that these people have. I think the USA is one of the more welcoming countries in the world for immigrants. It is amazing so many millions of people would have the courage to give it a go here.

I get bummed at people wanting the benefits of the USA, that do not pay taxes. And some Big Corporations come to mind that get big tax breaks also.

But calling people racist, because they might not respect a person who did not follow the legal way of immigrating, is quite harsh. I say make all the people citizens so we can get more money in taxes for the deficit.

We are all prejudiced and racist in some ways we just don't like to admit it.

Like I discriminate against people who like mayonaise or are right handed.




[edit on 18-4-2006 by sbob]

Originally posted by chissler

Racism is ignorant as well as reverse racism in which someone states that "the only reason you dont want them here is because they are mexicans" Chissler himself said that exact same thing in the subway post which i found to be offensive but shrugged off as ATS banter.

Please show me where I posted anything of that sort. If anything was mentioned like that in my posts it was quoted from another member.

If your going to quote members, actually quote them.
[quote] [/quote]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by chissler]

I just tried but the post has been edited apparently.

Simon, congrats on doing it the right way! We are better for having you here. Our beef is with ILlegals. Legals are the foundation of this country and i applaud anyone for doing it the right way, as they contribute to this country and are usually better citizens than the native ones

We have a kid in our office here from Bangladesh that was just naturalized and im very proud of him. Hes a good kid and has a great work ethic and frankly knows more about the country than i do! I consider him my little brother. To make a blanket statement like the only reason we dont like illegals is because they are brown insults me and everyone else who doesnt feel that way at all.

sbob you make some great points, and I'm not arguing anything you've just said.

If you actually read everything I have said on this thread, you would realize that is not what I am talking about.

You have done something alot of members have not. You have backed up your thoughts and did not post complete ignorance. I have no problem with a post of that sort, I applaud it.

Like I have said before, this thread is not a debate over whether or not immigration is right or wrong.

Whether it is right or wrong can be saved for another debate, I would just like for them to be acknowledged as human beings. Some of the quotes I have read on these boards have been almost breath taking.

I have had to make several suggestions to the staff of racist comments made by members, they have been removed. Rather than staying in this steady rotation, I thought it would be good to deal with this on a global scale for ATS.