Originally posted by rich23
Excuse me, the US fought Vietnam with its hands tied behind its back?
The US dropped as much ordnance on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia as was dropped in the whole of World War II. It made no formal declaration of war on
the last two countries, which made military action against them illegal. After a protracted guerilla war - much like it's facing now - in
which most of the population wanted the thuggish US soldiers out of their country - just like now - the US eventually realised defeat and helicoptered
itself out of there.
Most of the world cheered when the swaggering US got its clock cleaned by a bunch of dedicated amateurs.
Uh-huh, okay man, believe what you want. The Soviet Union, now they got their butts kicked by Afghanistan, and it bankrupted them. And that was
without fighting via political correctness. The French, too, got their butts handed to them in Vietnam.
Dropping ordinance doesn't matter; the Soviets dropped it too in Afghanistan, but unless you bomb the supply lines and source of government, as long
as the enemy has protection (as did the Vietnamese with their tunnel systems and the fact that much wasn't bombed of where they were), you won't
Not unless you have more advanced bombs which didn't exist back then.
The U.S. didn't get its "cock cleaned," in Vietnam, as many like to say. Johnson himself chose many of the major targets to be bombed, and would
not allow the military to bomb where it wanted.
many of the Vietnamese supply lines ran along the Demilitarized Zone and came from the Chinese and the Soviets. One of the main centers of this was
the Northern Vietnamese capital, Hanoi. When the Joint Chiefs drew up a list of targets to be hit of Northern Vietnam, Johnson would not allow it.
When Nixon shut down Hanoi later on, the supply lines also shut down. And that was only one area of where bombing was allowed. There were other
infrastructure targets that Johnson had ignored.
That is why the President is no longer allowed to have such a power. Because they can mess things up so badly.
Vietnam had plenty of justification, because no one knew if communism would have the Domino Effect at the time. And Vietnam would've been a quick,
easy victory, had Johnson not done what he did.
There is a reason he had a mental breakdown. Because so many people had died and he knew it was his fault.
Hitler actually did the same stuff to Germany in WWII. The German generals weren't stupid. All that "fight the whole planet" philsophy was
Hitler's and he personally selected which targets to bomb and attack a lot of the time, which, just like with the U.S. in Vietnam, resulted in
disastrous results for the Germans in the end.
As for Iraq, yes those pictures of dead children and people are done by the insurgents and/or Saddam's people, you really, really think the U.S.
could get away with that much mass murder?
Embedded journalists are secretly embedded in units; soldiers are not aware that they're even there. If that much murder was going on, you'd be
seeing videos of it. And until we see a video of a U.S. soldier actually shooting children, I am very doubtful of such pictures.
Saddam did starve half his people and the insurgents did torture that C.A.R.E. worker.
You say the "Patriots" are fighting the U.S.?? Maybe the patriots of hatred, not the patriots of Iraq. The Patriots of Iraq are thanking the U.S.
troops for doing what they're doing, even wondering how they manage to do it.
And that's from multiple infantryman who have been there, just having talks with the other Privates when I was in the Army. Hardened veterens of the
Iran-Iraq War and so forth that they had talked with and met.
The insurgents come from the surrounding countries, where hatred is generated.
As for generals, man there are all sorts of generals stuck in cubucles in the Pentagon who are open-territory for the press, generals who would love
to get their name in the press. I am not much inclined to believe what they say. A lot of them are out for money. Look at General Swarzchkoff
(spelling?), that guy is always out for fame.
BTW, since when were the Vietnamese "amateurs?" Last I checked, but the U.S. was just next on a long list of other countries they'd been fighting,
the one before the U.S. being the French. But they were no match for modern weapons that are properly applied (which the U.S. didn't do). When they
were applied, the NVA lost big-time.
The amount of Vietnamese deaths and American deaths could have been greatly lessened if the media hadn't changed the view of the American public,
which would've made the Northern Vietnamese gov't surrender. And even then, all Johnson needed to do was open up bombing of the Northern Vietnamese
capital and the supply lines and it would've been a quick victory.
[edit on 22-4-2006 by WheelsRCool]