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War with Iran is Inevitable so what Should We Do about It?

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posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 12:31 PM
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V Kaminski I agree that this situation is our leaders fault but we should be careful about blaming ourselves as citizens. At the end of the day there is no clause in our constitution demanding a referendum before a war, and though this may have prevented the “coming” Iran war it would not have prevented the Iraq war (in Britain anyway) due to the large amounts of propaganda i.e. in particular WMD’s and democracy being such a great solutions to so many of Iraq’s problems. And in contradiction to myself given the corrupt nature of the mass media’s ownership and bias it may still be possible that the majority of people will support a war with Iran before one starts.
The state of democracy in the west is very much democracy twice; and for all its alleged strengths it very often less than that (say the choice of Kerry and Bush in the last elections). And yeah if things like Rupert Murdoch’s media weren’t so corrupting towards the ideals of democracy then the public would at least have some chance of being held morally responsible for our nation’s strategic mistakes and moral downfalls.

One thing for certain: Our leaders are responsible for this mess, and sadly those leaders extend to owners of our mass media, our structure of democracy as well as those people this system(s) elects.

Regensturm At this stage I have one thing to say about nuclear bomb dedications and that’s “prophetic”. Nothing to get worked up really; in any case it’s exactly the sort of thing the military would allow-let happen as part of gesture politics. Somehow I don’t think they would let just anybody scratch the paint of those things without a: a lot of CCTV tape reviewing, b: a lot of cleaning and press ups for whoever did it, and c: possibly a court martial as well.

Meanwhile regarding North Korea and South Korea becoming prosperous and therefore possibly dangerous I don’t know. You would of thought that as we already do billions of dollars of trade with China that we might view any such co-operation as a mere extension to the global economy (so short-term concerned it would appear our leaders are). Not doubting what you said though about how things might have been in “war on communism times”. I wonder how a communist career would have differed from the North Korea of today? (Apart from more power not much is my hunch).

I agree that the U.S does seem to prevent cooperation between the countries (the axis of evil speech being a great example). But I think things are more complicated than that.
South Korea is corrupted by excessive military spending in much the same way we are. It is not in these peoples interests for there to a greater peace with the North. And as its South Korea we are friends with it is these people’s peace concerns America might easily try to side with. And I'm sure a great deal of South Korea’s military investment disproportionably benefits the American economy in relation to other more peaceful investments which are more likely to benefit China than America.

Also Regensturm I know the U.S did try to feed Iran to Saddam but I was thinking about how Saddam would easily have done it again if we hadn’t invaded him. He would be nearly as scared of Iranian as the Israelis. Trouble is when we did have the Iran Iraq war we secretly supplied weapons to both sides. This wasn’t nice, but it prevented a definitive victory and therefore one country being able to take the other. How I now wish we had let Saddam invade Iran and keep it. You could negotiate with him (even to the point of unilaterally disarming of WMS); fat chance of that ever happening with Iran though (well not pre Armageddon anyway).

Sminkeypinkey Your right that Israel has so many weapons it would be quite mad for Iran to pull the first shot AT THIS STAGE.
But I believe Israel and America will always fight together (that’s if America doesn’t do all the fighting for them on the pretext that “adding Israel will only make things worse”. I also believe that it is perfectly possible for Iran to have a nuke and for there to be no Armageddon (at least for a long time yet). But providing the U.S doesn’t get ahead of themselves. Sadly it looks like the U.S is already very much ahead of itself. You would of thought that these might just be words until you look at everything from Gulf War 2 to Vietnam (the U.S is full of instances where it has got ahead of itself with few exception, maybe the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan being the single biggest exception). Yeah with its track record in mind let’s hope it could be time for another great exception!!!




posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984

Regensturm At this stage I have one thing to say about nuclear bomb dedications and that’s “prophetic”. Nothing to get worked up really; in any case it’s exactly the sort of thing the military would allow-let happen as part of gesture politics. Somehow I don’t think they would let just anybody scratch the paint of those things without a: a lot of CCTV tape reviewing, b: a lot of cleaning and press ups for whoever did it, and c: possibly a court martial as well.


As I said before, if the story is true, it would not surprise me. I found out where this rumour originated, it came from another message board, posted on a thread about bombers arriving at Fairford, which contains an anonymous post which says that he/she loaded a nuke onto a plane, and sprayed "Tits Up For Tehran!" on it.

It could be rubbish, political posturing, or the real thing. It just would not surprise me if true.


Originally posted by Liberal1984
Meanwhile regarding North Korea and South Korea becoming prosperous and therefore possibly dangerous I don’t know. You would of thought that as we already do billions of dollars of trade with China that we might view any such co-operation as a mere extension to the global economy (so short-term concerned it would appear our leaders are).


But you forget that China is a fast growing economy and is set to overtake the US in 20 years as a superpower, maybe less, not to mention the US is in trade deficit to China, trade is all well and good, but in terms of this trade partnership, China are eating America alive, and America could become a junior partner.

1.3 billion consumers may want to buy American goods, but they may just be happier buying cheaper domestic goods, which added with Americans selling stuff to China, and Americans buying from China, means Chins is becoming a economic force.

Learning from Japan's economic boom too, the US may not be able to handle too many Asian tigers, and get good arms deals with the South Koreans, so it's in their interest to sabotage a United Korea.


Originally posted by Liberal1984
Not doubting what you said though about how things might have been in “war on communism times”. I wonder how a communist career would have differed from the North Korea of today? (Apart from more power not much is my hunch).


It probably may well have fallen under Chinese semi control if you are referring to a victory in The Korean War, or they would have become a mini China.

In fact, it's a belief of mine that North Korea will take the Chinese route of becoming more capitalist, and will economically prosper, worrying South Korea who will strive for reunification to boost their economy.

Japan will be worried.

I

Originally posted by Liberal1984 I agree that the U.S does seem to prevent cooperation between the countries (the axis of evil speech being a great example). But I think things are more complicated than that.
South Korea is corrupted by excessive military spending in much the same way we are. It is not in these peoples interests for there to a greater peace with the North. And as its South Korea we are friends with it is these people’s peace concerns America might easily try to side with. And I'm sure a great deal of South Korea’s military investment disproportionably benefits the American economy in relation to other more peaceful investments which are more likely to benefit China than America.


Agreed.


Originally posted by Liberal1984
Also Regensturm I know the U.S did try to feed Iran to Saddam but I was thinking about how Saddam would easily have done it again if we hadn’t invaded him. He would be nearly as scared of Iranian as the Israelis. Trouble is when we did have the Iran Iraq war we secretly supplied weapons to both sides. This wasn’t nice, but it prevented a definitive victory and therefore one country being able to take the other. How I now wish we had let Saddam invade Iran and keep it. You could negotiate with him (even to the point of unilaterally disarming of WMS); fat chance of that ever happening with Iran though (well not pre Armageddon anyway).


I don't think Saddam could attack Iran again. His Army had been demoralised and smashed by the Iraq-Iran War, and the Gulf War of '91 finished his army off.

I don't think it would be/was right to support him in a war against Iran, it caused chaos the first time, the second time could have been much worse, not to mention Saddam was not a nice chap to be backing in a war, no matter what you think of the Ayatollahs.

You say that Saddam could be negotiated with, and imply that Iran can not, well as I have said, the US and Iran have not held talks face to face since the Iranian Revolution, leaving the EU as middle men.

As I have also said, the US needs to swallow it's pride, and Iran swallow it's pride, and meet face to face.

Discussions could go a long way from there.



posted on Apr, 20 2006 @ 10:17 AM
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When it is all said and done, Iran will attack the US before the US attacks Iran, the people in most of the western world will support military action, and even help in many cases including dove countries like France, heck even China is an easy sell, and it could happen as soon as today if the US wants it to.

This whole A + B = C logic in dealing with Iran is amature extreamism if you ask me, I can think of at least 5 different ways the US can control the situation I point out in paragraph 1.

That is to assume the US even wants the war. I'm not convinced they do, but I am not convinced Israel doesn't, which is also part of it.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 02:07 AM
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If you ever see or saw the stock pile of armor that was at Camp Doha in kuwait (~2000), you will know we were ready for something big. That place had a nice mini put put too - called fun world I believe.


- its called Marble Palace, I boofed, sorry, I did call it funworld at one point, but its really Marble Palace.

If anyone cares.

[edit on 21-4-2006 by pcxmac]



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by darksided
When it is all said and done, Iran will attack the US before the US attacks Iran, the people in most of the western world will support military action, and even help in many cases including dove countries like France, heck even China is an easy sell, and it could happen as soon as today if the US wants it to.


I dont think Iran would have the upper hand politically if it attacked, unprovoked, could just be me though.

Whats a dove country? France albeit loosing hard after WW2 and Algiers, I wouldnt call it a dove country, just a country with alot less power. But it still has nukes.

Anyone is pacified, when they loose their ability to fight.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 03:05 AM
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I hate to be the morbid one,but i believe that any troubles/suffering the u.s is enduring/about to endure is well deserved. When i say this,im not saying that the citizens themselves deserve it,but the country itself(if that makes sense). I believe in what goes around,comes around.Do good things,and good things will come back to you.

It makes me sad to see the situation we are in right now.America is not the greatest nation in the world,because we arent doing anything to truly help anyone.Where were we when the massacre's happened in sudan? Oh,we send colin powell,and sit them down for talk.What kind of crap is that? We could have stopped that,but no,iraq is more of a threat to us. Use the money we use in iraq for food,or water/medical supplies to ppl in africa,asia,south america,etc....

If our image is so important to ppl in the middle east,or anywhere in globe;what better image is one of humanitarian aid? Oh yeah,i forgot there's no money in that.The money's is in oil and defense contracts.Not to mention slavery,and the whole native american/mexican ordeal.

In this sense,i believe that we are just now reaping what we've sown for hundreds of years.

Sorry if this takes away from the topic of the post,but i just felt i had to say it when the thought hit me.



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