Originally posted by spymaster
as i said before the bnp are not far-right..its that simple
sure they are right wing but far-right i think you would have to look at the likes of :
league of st George/stormfront/C18 or that type of organisation for them to be ''far-right'.
- I suppose it's personal judgement and I'll accept that the BNP isn't combat18, but that isn't 'the standard' by which we should judge them
You're entitled to believe the BNP aren't "far right", but you are
definitely in a minority there.
What i cant understand is the bnp are an elected party ..like it or not, yeah , therefor they do have the right to campaign as do all the other
- I don't deny anyone the right to seek votes, it's one of the pillars of our system.
That doesn't meant to say that they (or anyone else) will be free from robust comment, challenge or criticism. Surely?
ive got nothing to hide mate, im genuinly not a rascist person
- Don't be so defensive sm, I have no reason to think otherwise.
I have met several BNP/NF people over the years when I lived in the London area (not far from Barking and all the recent fuss there).
More than a few of these people are racist and neo-fascist nazi admirers, they have chosen to deliberately pursue a policy of keeping that as quiet as
but god brought me into this world in England and white ..being proud of that FACT is not a rascist comment
- Well it seems for some reason that this may surprise you but I agree with that.
The problem isn't in feeling a sense of pride over what you are or where you are from, the problems usually begin when some people start to think
that those are grounds to look down on or discriminate against others who do not have the same 'qualities'.
well you may have things mixed up here mate..these group of thugs were BUF british union of fascists and had Nothing to do with bnp as we know
- OK, there's truth in that as an absolute but if you trace the chops and changes following the demise of the BUF it is quite clear that the BNP are
the present-day version or outcome from that root or 'lineage'.
the NF they are long gone and forgotten as far as many are concerned
- Again, if you only wish to state the absolute then this is so.
is it undeniable that many in the BNP are ex-NF members who moved to the new 'party'. Some because they thought a new unknown 'more
likely to' as opposed to a thoroughly discredited NF
(yes I know there were splits and rows too but putting it in simple terms).
the days of skinheads in boots and braces are over.
They in their day were too un-organised and too extreme for their time IMHO?
- They certainly lacked 'public appeal' it is true but you'll still find that kind of element in their support base and it is evident whenever
they descend on an unfortunate town to 'agitate' and exploit any local racial problems.
Sminkey ive had many a tit-4-tat discussion with you
- Tit for tat sm?
I would have hoped it was better....perhaps usually a little challenging, interesting and informed to and fro?
That's what I hope is going to be going on.
I'm always happy to knock ideas and views back and forth with anyone, really, I certainly don't expect people to hold my viewpoint and I do respect
the right of everyone to hold their own views and beliefs.
you are a very intelligent and well read person
- You are too kind.....and I have absolutely no reason to think otherwise of yourself.
i feel your comments are very blinkered (very left-wing)
- Maybe so, but I would hope not "blinkered" though.
I make no secret of being a long-time member and supporter of the British Labour party.....and even agreeing with the pragmatism of 'New Labour', so
left-wing?! I disagree.
I would say I am a centrist with more 'social democrat' leanings than any 'super left-ism'.
you pick up on the smallest of parts and then quote stats for this?
- Well if I do do that I intend and would hope that it is relevant and germane to the issue and point I am trying to get over.
I must say that to the majority your stats have BEEN accurate
I would honestly say that I have never knowingly put up any figures that were inaccurate or intended to mislead.
but we know stats take a long time to coallate and therefor the time they are published they become inaccurate to the present time.
- Fair enough, but we have only what we have - and I wouldn't try to claim to be always able to lay my hands on the best set of figures all the time
Just today on the news they were talking about ''world migration''
in 2004 over 400,000 people from within europe migrated to the uk with only 67,000 uk residents migrating elsewhere.
like i said that was 2004 we are now in 2006 things have changed......
- Well quite.
But a few years is a very narrow timescale, interpretation and context are also very important.
Go back further, say 10 or 20 years and I could also post figures that show that until quite recently it was not the UK that people were coming to and
that Germany and France were the big 'magnets' for many many years for taking immigrants.
Look, im not saying that this or that should be done, but we are only a small island in a bloody big world so it would seem to effect the
economic issues in this country more than if this country was the size of russia for argument sake.
- I understand this point and I would not dismiss it entirely and say it has no merit at all (although I do think that it is often 'used' by some
to further a completely different agenda).
The UK is a hugely rich nation but that wealth is poorly dispersed.
The problem IMO is that those who benefited most from that wealth (historically acquired during the time of Empire) have now walked away and left the
rest of us to deal with the predictable consequences of Empire - a community from almost everywhere and people from outside not surprisingly wanting
to come to those communities instead of somewhere where there are not people 'from home'.
Set this in the context of little social housing provision now and it isn't surprising that people feel upset.
The broadest backs are no longer even pretending to take the heaviest loads anymore, I'm not surprised 'the people' resent the burden.
But IMO the answer isn't to turn on either ourselves (see the idea of a 'fat tax' or the other one that surfaces from time to time of refusing
health treatment to smokers.....like they don't already discriminate on the quiet anyway
) or on those in the worst possible circumstances (and
that really is the truth of the situation for many asylum seekers.....not absolutely all, true, but it's also true some people have been deliberately
confusing this amongst the other issues of general immigration and illegal immigration).
Nor is it to fear or blame the immigrants that we need (and whether one takes marginal views about what is or is not 'too many' we do need a degree
The 'answer', IMO, is to have sane and reasonable taxation policies which meet the need instead of this unsustainable and crazy 'dutch auction'
for ever lower tax rates for corporations, big business and those already most wealthy and privileged.
I'm not suggesting spiteful, enterprise-killing punitive tax rates but on the otherhand those who try and kid us that a tax rate is the 'be-all and
end-all' of the attractions to weigh up for living in the UK we can probably do well without anyway.
IMO wanting to live in the UK should be about a damned sight more than a marginal top level of taxation rate(s).
We ALL have got to open our eyes a bit more those of us like myself (who some may feel that i have right wing views) and those like you
- You'd never catch me thinking I knew it all matey.
I'll defend my view with some vigor at times but where would this place be if we all thought the same or instantly agreed with each other, eh?
and realise things are changing, and its not an ideal world we are living in mate.
- Of course, but it is also only fair to recognise that this has always been so and that the world is how it is only
because we either make it
so or tolerate it to be so.
Or we can all carry on watching TV and just bellyache (although I hear viewing is declining).
I know it isn't easy for many but worthwhile change rarely is.
I would (and have) encouraged people to get into politics (even in parties I disagree with). If you are a democrat then hearing what the people say
and want should soon help mould your views properly, whatever party you start out in.
kids NO matter where they are NO matter what colour they are SHOULD NOT BE GOING WITHOUT FOOD
- Preaching to the choir, sm.
there should be NO poverty in the world in 2006
- Testify brother (or sister....how do I know?).
You'll get no argument from me on this either.
it isnt directed at you sminkey
- You lie man, this was full of comments to me.
(coz i know you will come back and shoot me down in flames)
- As if I'd even think of such a thing.
i am not aswell read or intelligent as you
- I'm not trying to patronise you sm but don't put yourself down like this, I have no reason to be thinking the kind of thing that you are telling
and do not know how to express the opinions im trying to put accross as you may do,
- Doesn't look to me like you have the slightest problem, sm.
[edit on 8-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]