Britons turning to the extreme right in large numbers

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Knight- Labour aren`t the best government in the world but their certinly better than most. And although your not an idiot the Bnp are the most racist bigioted stupid political party in British history there leader Nick Griffin is a thug who would like to commit a genocide on immigrants so come on get real man.

I do not object to anybody whatsoever contributing to this thread, however a comment such as this just fans the flames. Will you please substantiate what you say Peruvianmonk or withdraw the remark.

Thank you.

Originally posted by ubermunche
'turning to the BNP because you are dissafected by the other political parties is like drinking poison because the right medicine isn't to hand.'

- Very nicely put.

Having said that I feel pretty sure that a lot of people who are threatening to vote BNP are merely protest voting

- Exactly.

When all the numbers and the local election results are in we'll see it clear as day (the fact that they are 'local elections' is hugely significant as turnout will be much lower than in a general election - people tend to see them as much less important - so all sorts of misleading little games will tend to be played with % figures, as the 'bald numbers get ignored as studiously as possible by those wanting to promote this agenda).

Britons are not 'turning to the the extreme right in large numbers' at all actually, as every poll shows.

The occasional council seat in a very low turnout local election does not add up to a new 'dawn' for the BNP or NF or any of that shower.
It is merely a message to civilised politics that pops up every now and again.

I would remind people of (or to go and look it up if too young to know it) the NF in the late 1970's or Derek Beacon in 1993?

Originally posted by MadGreebo
Non Loyal non British? get rid of them.

- "Non Loyal"?! To what and who's version of loyalty?
......and why should a "Non British" person be required to be "loyal"?
What about the British who are not "loyal" to what you imagine they should be "loyal" to?

"get rid of them" - to where and how, exactly?

I'd love to hear this one explained in detail.............................?

[edit on 18-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

I never did quite trust polls and polling numbers. To me most of them are politically derived not for the purpose of reporting trends but to give the impression that if you dont get in line you wont be reflected in these numbers. In otherwords as a political tool to get people to change their minds.
This became very obvious here Stateside...when the Clinton/Monica Lewinski debacle was going on. Suddenly and daily...several times a day we were bombarded by one poll or another ..often new ones. This became a total barrage of polls..one after another 7 days a week. Then when the debacle was over and the polls had achieved what was desired politically...the polls died out..they just silently faded into nothing. The goals were achieved and the polls were no longer needed.
Some of us here had been thinking this for a long time about polls....but the Clinton/Lewinski case confirmed this for us as to what is the purpose of many polls. Not to report trends but to influence people in a certain direction. Polls are a political tool on a unawares public. They are a seduction for political purposes...not necessarily public good.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I forgot to add...in my last post..

To me polls are one of the methods in which the will of the public is redirected to the new agenda. Another word for this redirection is Hijacked or as I stated previously..seduced.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
When all the numbers and the local election results are in we'll see it clear as day (the fact that they are 'local elections' is hugely significant as turnout will be much lower than in a general election - people tend to see them as much less important - so all sorts of misleading little games will tend to be played with % figures, as the 'bald numbers get ignored as studiously as possible by those wanting to promote this agenda).

Britons are not 'turning to the the extreme right in large numbers' at all actually, as every poll shows.

Sminkey, 'every poll' hitherto has not taken into account the findings of the Rowntree Foundation Report. I am sure we will find that times they are a-changing.

You are entitled to your views, but to dismiss the right wing parties as a 'shower' shows your own personal prejudices. You dismiss them at your peril.

For sure, they are not likely to form the next government, no prizes for guessing that, but who would have said that a civilised people like the Germans would have voted in large numbers for an extremist right wing party within the last 100 years unless the circumstances were right?

The incessant overwhelming tide of political correctness could just be the catalyst needed to bring the extreme right wing parties to the forefront of political debate in the UK. It has happened already in France. Your own personal prejudices might dismiss Jean Marie LePen as a 'nutter' but who now would dare to call him a bit-part player in French politics?

Equally the Dutch are also showing that they have had enough, and you could hardly call the Dutch reactionary as a race, they are amongst the most tolerant you could possibly imagine.

I would say therefore that, whilst your own tastes may not be assuaged by a significant move to the right, there is a groundswell of opinion in the UK in this direction, which will indeed be borne out by local elections.

And remember one more thing, a protest vote is still a vote. That is what democracy is all about.

I would also say that the 'one in four' quoted in the report is 'large numbers', but you will no doubt beg to differ. That is of course your right and I respect that.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]
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[edit on 18-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Englishman_in_Spain
I would say therefore that, whilst your own tastes may not be assuaged by a significant move to the right, there is a groundswell of opinion in the UK in this direction, which will indeed be borne out by local elections.

- Well we shall see when the polls actually happen.

But whilst I acknowledge there has been a lot of talk - and it is also worth bearing in mind that the other side to people like Rowntree or Margaret Hodge taking like that is that it may well be deliberate to rouse the apathetic Labour support to come out and vote so that the BNP types do not make the gains some seem determined to dream of - that is hardly much basis for silly claims about 1 in 4 either.

25% of the public are not BNP supporters.
No matter what wild fantasy you or anyone else may cling to.

......and that is exactly the kind of silly % game I was talking about.
25% (even if it were to happen) in a council / local government poll with a tiny turnout is not 25% of the general public's support.

BTW the term "shower" was putting it mildly.
Criminal, lying, stupid, thuggish, evil, vicious, violent, abusive, manipulative, anti-democratic, anti-British, in-humane, anti-social, ridiculous, risible, unoriginal, sad and plain boring are probably more fitting terms for fascists IMO.

.....and anyone believing idiotic garbage like the 'Africans for Essex' story fully merit the term 'cretin' - they can't even see how the BNP is manipulating and taking the pi*s out of their own so-called 'support'!
How does that one work, hmmmmm?
They claim to be disaffected with 'mainstream parties' but prepared to back one that tells them outright lies of the worst order to get their votes!

in Barking and Dagenham, the BNP claimed that the Labour Party was providing Africans with £50,000 grants to buy houses in the borough. The 'Africans for Essex' story, as it became known, was not challenged by the council and soon became accepted as fact.

www.irr.org.uk...

Like I said, anyone who knows anything about British politics since the end of WW2 knows that these 'types' pop up from time to time attacking a few, but mostly worrying people and making a little bit of a scene.

The fascists have had far greater levels of 'support' in the past.
Think the 1945 - 51 east-end BUF riots;
the 'Adolf's birthday' Trafalgar Sq riot of 1962;
the mid 1960's Racial Preservation Society (RPS), made up of hard-right Tories, senior Whitehall civil servants and military personnel, a few convicted gangsters and hardline nazis;
the marches and the large-scale strikes in support of Powell in 1968;
the 1970's NF marches.
Derek Beacon and the BNP get a council seat in 1983 in east London.
It never once turned into anything remotely describable as tangible come general election time.
Never.

The fundamental truth is that they are not coming to power in the UK.
Each of the latest 'scares' usually rely on frightening young people and talking themselves up to those who are so young they have little or no knowledge of what has gone before.

A handful of council seats (out of the thousands contested - and usually held for a single and short term only) do not change that one little bit no matter how much some want to infer or dream otherwise.

(BTW * mods * shouldn't this be in the UK politics section?)


[edit on 18-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

English_man_in_spain how does what i say inflame thew situation it`s pretty obvious what they would try and do if they got in. Stay in Spain!

edited and U2U sent

regarding the T&C's;
2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.






[edit on 18-4-2006 by masqua]

BTW the term "shower" was putting it mildly.
Criminal, lying, stupid, thuggish, evil, vicious, violent, abusive, manipulative, anti-democratic, anti-British, in-humane, anti-social, ridiculous, risible, unoriginal, sad and plain boring are probably more fitting terms for fascists IMO.

Criminals?! And every other party in the UK don't have records?!
Lying?! And every other party doesn't lie?!
Stupid?! Well.. shows your own ignorance.
Evil?! Many people would class Labour as evil.. again ignorance.
anti-British?! How? They are the British National Party! Instead of spending money on countless illegal immigrants that money will be going back INTO BRITAIN.
Unorginal?! How the hell does that matter?!
Plain boring- Ignorance!

The fundamental truth is that they are not coming to power in the UK.
Each of the latest 'scares' usually rely on frightening young people and talking themselves up to those who are so young they have little or no knowledge of what has gone before.

A handful of council seats (out of the thousands contested - and usually held for a single and short term only) do not change that one little bit no matter how much some want to infer or dream otherwise.

That I agree with.

Its easy to blast anything that you read but you must first remember a few things.

some people are just racist full stop. (not saying i am)

some people are fed up with not being able to use our full rights because of political correctness. (somebody was told to take a england flag down in their office during the europeon cup.)

some people dont care what happens. (they just sit back and watch)

some people do care and are fed up paying taxes to help people who dont want to help themselves. (they start looking for polocies from other political bodies to help them.)

people who are bothered but dont say anything or pipe up about the way people are racist.(so why complain about it?)

these are a few thoughts. some of the views of the British National Party are apealing to people like sorting out the asylum seekers entering the uk and lowering taxes (hey who doesn't like that one) So if you are unhappy say it and don't rubbish other people thoughts. remember this is about polotics.

Originally posted by Knights
Criminals?! And every other party in the UK don't have records?!

- I think you'll find the BNP (and whatever label they have gone under before) attracts a particular hater-filled, thuggish and violent element that the other parties manage to miss out on, happily.

Fascism has made a virtue out of violence to disrupt and intimidate 'the opposition' ever since it was invented.

Lying?! And every other party doesn't lie?!

- Their entire 'platform' rests on a lie, the 'they're on easy street getting something you're not' ridiculous nonsense.

Stupid?! Well.. shows your own ignorance.

- No.
It's a fair reflection on the 'minds' that invented and believed crap like the 'Africans for Essex' lie etc etc.

Evil?! Many people would class Labour as evil.. again ignorance.

- No other party relies on stirring up and exploiting racial trouble in the way the BNP do, if you haven't seen or experienced it that is your ignorance showing, actually.

anti-British?! How? They are the British National Party!

- Who cares what 'label of convenience' they care to use (to convince the moronic element)?

Their values could hardly be more anti-British if they tried.

The tragedy is that they (and it would appear you) can't seem to see that.

Instead of spending money on countless illegal immigrants that money will be going back INTO BRITAIN.

- Oh of course, all those "illegal immigrants".

I suppose it makes a slightly more 'politically correct' focus for abuse these days than 'Jews' once did (but they still hate them too, they keep quiet about all that type of hatred these days, right.......until they tell the truth to an undercover TV investigator, hmmmm) but they aren't fooling anyone (beyond their already convinced support).

Unorginal?! How the hell does that matter?!

- Cos we've heard all those little tantrums before many many times, it failed way back when just like it'll fail now.

Plain boring- Ignorance!

- No it isn't.
Their appeal to the most selfish aspects of self-interest (so asinine it would be ludicrously self-harming to us as a nation) truly is a childish bore.

That I agree with.

- Phew, thank God for that much at least.

why should we take in imigrants. I am not racist for saying this and tony blaire is on my side on this.

Tony Blair can say that it is "neither racist nor extremist" to raise "genuine concerns" about the flood of asylum seekers, then it is no longer feasible to pretend that this crisis does not exist.

we do not have any responsibility to take in asylum seekers unless we are there closest safe country. (i dont think we are)
a friend of mine quit her job at the department of work and pensions the other week when a old lady came in with no money and couldnt pay her gas bill, My friend couldnt help her and had to turn her away crying. the next person was an asylum seeker who she had to give a check for £700 to buy a second hand car and £100 worth of food vouchers and £20 in mobile phone top up vouchers. what is this country coming too? she simply quit her job!!

- I think you'll find the BNP (and whatever label they have gone under before) attracts a particular hater-filled, thuggish and violent element that the other parties manage to miss out on, happily.

Yes.. Blind Ignorance.. up to 2004 the Conservatives had around 18 charges pressed against MP's including violence, child pornography and corruption, Labour had 31. Does that mean they attract perverts? Of course not. If I voted BNP does that make me an evil, thug? Of course not.

- Their entire 'platform' rests on a lie, the 'they're on easy street getting something you're not' ridiculous nonsense.

- As Labour stated Iraq had WMD?? Or is that perfectly acceptable? Every party lies. How are they based on a lie? you have given one example as a story. They generally play on peoples thoughts if anything. Straight forward and to the point.

It's a fair reflection on the 'minds' that invented and believed crap like the 'Africans for Essex' lie etc etc.

So next time you get something wrong, or use a wrong source then I am completely valid to call you stupid then?

No other party relies on stirring up and exploiting racial trouble in the way the BNP do, if you haven't seen or experienced it that is your ignorance showing, actually.

Because the BNP use such things in their policies. Every other party shys away from such issues. I have recieved BNP leaflets showing mass illegal immigrants breaching borders into Britain, Labour wouldn't dare to confront such an issue because they realise public opinion generally wouldn't approve.

By your approach you seem to be hiding away from facts. The BNP has no way caused problems.. just raised awareness to such things. Unless we should all bury our heads in the sands as it would be wrong to show and comment on racial tensions?!

Who cares what 'label of convenience' they care to use (to convince the moronic element)?

That is in your opinion.. how dare you enforce your views onto others. If i called you or your party morons then i'm sure many would disagree. I wouldn't. We are still a democracy but as you stated earlier they are 'anti-democratic', surely being in an open democracy people of all beliefs can express their views without bheing critisised?! Saying soemthing like I wish a race would die is obviously an offence, or classifying 'them all' personally, fair enough. All he did was give his views on 'their' religion.

Oh of course, all those "illegal immigrants".

THE government has secretly calculated there are about 500,000 illegal immigrants in Britain despite repeated claims by ministers that they do not know the scale of the problem

Yup.. play the problem down!
Infact let's open our borders up fully?!
Of course not. Labour have no idea how many there are legal + illegal. You can pay for them because I really am distgusted. Have you seen how many health visitors there actually are? Or how much money is sucked out of NHS, police or armed forces?? Probably not.

they keep quiet about all that type of hatred these days, right.......until they tell the truth to an undercover TV investigator, hmmmm) but they aren't fooling anyone (beyond their already convinced support).

He said Islam was an evil religion to a reporter (behind CLOSED doors). I'm sure many, many more people have stated such things at home? Or perhaps several Muslim people have said something about Christianity? Infact even this forum shows tensions IMO.

The fact of the matter is the general media tries to apply this negative stereotype to the BNP and people get sucked it just as easily. Many a celebrity have had their highs and a snap of the media fingers and they are nothing. The media also states that they have a great influence on politics and people's views. Every party can appear to look good or bad.


[edit on 18-4-2006 by Knights]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Knights]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Knights]

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Knights]

Originally posted by theukman

a friend of mine quit her job at the department of work and pensions the other week when a old lady came in with no money and couldnt pay her gas bill, My friend couldnt help her and had to turn her away crying. the next person was an asylum seeker who she had to give a check for £700 to buy a second hand car and £100 worth of food vouchers and £20 in mobile phone top up vouchers. what is this country coming too? she simply quit her job!!

That disgusts me mate, I have been on the receiving end of such discrimination. I lived in the U.S.A. for 12 years, and I came home to England in the summer for holidays. One summer when I was 19, I went to go buy a second hand car with the money I saved up so I could go around and see the country. I found an old honda civic for like 900 quid and I was gonna buy it, but when I called and asked for insurance, they quoted me 13,000 pounds a year because i was 19, and on an American license with 0 no claims bonus. THAT IS NOT A TYPO, THEY SAID 13K. I went back to the dealership and said "sorry mate, I can't get insurance, its too expensive. The dealer threw his clipboard down and said "I'm leaving this blasted country, earlier today, two kosovan men came in with 2 grand in government hand outs, and bought a car...then they had a cover note with their insurance, tax, and fuel money paid for, and a natural born Englishman gets turned down" I was so pissed off I went back to the states and didn't come back for two years. It happens all the time.

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[edit on 18-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DARKJEDIG

Originally posted by theukman

the next person was an asylum seeker who she had to give a check for £700 to buy a second hand car and £100 worth of food vouchers and £20 in mobile phone top up vouchers.

earlier today, two kosovan men came in with 2 grand in government hand outs, and bought a car...then they had a cover note with their insurance, tax, and fuel money paid for.

It happens all the time.

- Yeah right, of course it does.

Please feel free to let us all know under which regulations this all happens then, seeing as you claim to know someone who worked in the DWP.

I shall not be holding my breath for the reference(s).

sminkeypinkey- It's easy to disregard others' views to further your own 'social ranking'. Where are your sources or facts saying they don't? Have you even looked into it?

You play down illegal immigrants but I see you have no evidence/ sources to back up your views on the matter?

I have to say, I think the title of the thread is rather misleading. The article's point is as has been noted that a report claims that 25% of the population will maybe vote for the BNP, because of they are dissillusioned with Labour.

Saying "Britons are turning to the extreme right" implies that our political persuasion has changed, whereas the article implies the voting for BNP is more of a protest vote.

And I feel thats an important point here, the only reason the BNP will see an increase in votes will be because they have brushed up on their PR. They will fool some people into voting for them, just like other parties do with their slick campaigning right.

The bottom line is that the BNP are racists, just look at the fuss over Mr Gawad, their candidate in Bradford. Hes a greek-armenian and BNP members werent happy with an "ethnic" in their party. A statement from the BNP said they had explained he is not a "pakistani muslim", but some members are still not happy with it.

Thats racism, and Britain, unlike the BNP, accepts people no matter of their colour or religion, that is why the BNP is an extreme political party, and why it relys on fear, poverty and ignorance to get their votes.

Some of the fear-mongering on this thread/forum is a joke, "bleeding foreigners stealing our jobs, money, taxes, women". It's so thinly veiled that some of you dont like immigrants no matter how many there were in the UK its a joke.

I would be laughing but I think its pathetic, the news will keep on with stories like this because it gets people angry, but the BNP will never be anything more than a small extreme right, racist party.

And it comes back to that report, 25% of the UK population right? How did they come up with that percentage? Pfffffft, lets just see how many votes they get, they get even 10% of the votes (in the local council elections, what a waste of time) I will eat my keyboard.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by DARKJEDIG

Originally posted by theukman

the next person was an asylum seeker who she had to give a check for £700 to buy a second hand car and £100 worth of food vouchers and £20 in mobile phone top up vouchers.

earlier today, two kosovan men came in with 2 grand in government hand outs, and bought a car...then they had a cover note with their insurance, tax, and fuel money paid for.

It happens all the time.

- Yeah right, of course it does.

Please feel free to let us all know under which regulations this all happens then, seeing as you claim to know someone who worked in the DWP.

I shall not be holding my breath for the reference(s).

You dont think this happens ??, let me tell you it does, i myself have witnessed this on a few occasions,

Wlaking round comet looking to buy a new washing machine, when i over hear a convosation taking place between a sales man and a indian gentalman, hes buying a new cooker, fridge/freezer/microwave and a washing machine when i get to the checkout hes handing over goverment vouchers.

another time i was reading the local newspaper and see an article about how 3 asylum seekers with family's have been put up in a 4 start hotel in my town whilst they wait on a new houses which are being built.

and heres a little trick some of them pull buy a house in a freinds name he/she then hands it over to a agent and then the family that actualy bought it move in claiming housing benefit to pay for it and reap back most of the money.

am i racist NO, would i ever support the BNP NO, Do i have indian/pakistani freinds nope but i get along and have a joke with my indian next door neighbour, my local post master, my indian doctor, who id like to add is one of the most laid back indian guys you could meet.

at the end of the day when the P.C people have to change a nursery ryme from bar bar black sheep have you any wool to bar bar rainbow sheep(wtf even my 3 year old looked at the tv with a bewildered face when he heard it) my thought on this is there actualy making something thats not racist seem racist to them if you ask me.

if you dont belive this happens all i can belive is that youve got your head buried in the sand or just plain ignorant to the truth.

You can suck up all that well-worn pathetic NF/BNP propaganda all you like but that is all it remains.

I know several people working - now - in the DWP (going back to when it was called the DHSS, DSS, Benefit Agency and now DWP).
That's why I asked for a reference to the regulation this car was supposedly paid for under, I can check the truth of your claims......although I already know the DWP does not pay out for cars or insurance.
Wise up.

....and btw I don't have to 'prove' anything (how does anyone prove a negative anyway?) because I am not the one making idiotic and wild claims.

No doubt there are a handful of rare cases where someone or family was put up in a hotel but to claim that is the experience of all or anything beyond the most exceptional (and short-term) is hysterical rubbish, as is invariably the case with all that kind of tale........and who was getting the rent anyway, hmmmm? Not the family/person that is for sure.
I suppose the remedy is to see them on the streets, eh?

I happen to know a 'white native Briton' who was given a grant recently for a whole host of domestic appliances/fixtures, as she had absolutely nothing.......who then went out and wasted it all on hair extensions.
So the claim about a new washing machine might well have happened.....but you can have no clue as to all of what was going on and what the grant/loan (it used to be crisis and budgeting loans, right?) was for.

But this is the usual, exaggerated, hate-driven racist tall tales about how 'they' are getting something the 'British' aren't......

....but with 'British' folks like that around who the hell in their right mind would swap lives with an immigrant person, hmmmm?

What does "baa baa black sheep" have to do with this!? Absolutely nothing. Crying Political Correctness is a cop-out.

There are example of government waste and benefit scams across the board, it is not just a problem with immigration/asylum. Just look at that Lizzie Bardsley, her family were making in excess of 30,000 pounds a year from benefits, and they are not immigrants! Is that ok with you guys? Because there are thousands of people doing that, and none of them are immigrants.