Exxon Chairman Gets $400 Million Retirement Package

I simply cannot resist a bit of diabolic advocacy, Toadmund

Originally posted by Toadmund
Good point, I don't agree with the unfathomable rewards of celebrity either. But as far as I am concerned, this guy is retiring with almost half a BILLION dollars.

Bill gates will retire with TWENTY TIMES THAT. And Bill as mined lots of gallium, cadmium, and phosphorus before mixing it with petroleum-based PLASTIC (omg!) and spread it in a thin film across the earth's crust, via consumers like you and me.

Originally posted by Toadmund
And he did it with OIL, you know that stuff that pollutes and kills the planet, the stuff that people depend on and goes up in price every time I fart.

Yes, that's right, it only goes up. But not because there's not enough of the stuff. It goes up in the USA solely because there is not enough refining capacity to meet our needs. Congress has refused to allow the building of any new refineries since 1976. And so oil companies like exxon take the money they would have spent on new refineries, and give it back to the executives and shareholders.

Originally posted by Toadmund
It's easy to get mad when rich scum steal our natural resources and get filthy rich from them while a person like me lives from payday to payday.

I'm really not trying to start a fight with you. And I realize that no one wants to hear this, especially at ATS. But all it takes to get rich is to Spend LESS than you earn. If you do that, you are automatically becoming wealthier. If you are not getting rich, it is not some ugly old man's fault. It's yours, for spending your entire paycheck. You may never get as rich as him, but you'll be building wealth if you simply live below your means. The people who do that are getting richer. When they quit, they become poorer.

I know, I know. No one wants to hear it. Call ME an ugly capitalist, because I started out with nothing, figured out the secret, and now own things. How evil of me.

Originally posted by Toadmund
And where do my peanuts go? Well they go to help fill elephant sized duffelbags of the needlessly wealthy almost everytime I pay bills or buy the things I need.

Your money only goes where you send it. Video game manufacturers are going broke off of me. Ditto fashion designers, and brewers. At my house, we grow a lot of our own veggies, and shoot or barter our meat and sweets. I homebrew as well. I hate spending so much on gasoline, so the wife and I have found jobs and a home less than 3 miles from each other. We barely drive a thousand miles a month, except for vacation/adventure.

Originally posted by Toadmund
If there were 10 people in a room and ten slices of pie, one man takes 9 slices and pigs out and leaves 1 slice for the 9 people to share, what would you think of that person?
Yeah, I thought so!
Now, all we have to do it label it CAPITALISM, and it becomes OK.

I call him and evil vampire. But that's not what capitalism really looks like. Capitalism is about baking more pies, not fighting over the one we are presented with.

Originally posted by Toadmund
But alas, the world is run by the pigs and they have us all blindly accepting and legitimising their ideals and POV.

Yes, yes. Call me a blind sheep because I am applying myself, and live in a country where I'm rewarded for doing so. Call me an evil capitalist wannabe because I got sick of being poor.

The fact of the matter is that EXXON is a public company. In a FREE nation, the shareholders can vote and decide how much the executive gets paid. Why do the votes favor this dude? Because he OWNS a huge chunck of the company. And he's doing this as a salary so he doesn't have to pay the rest of the shareholders any dividends.

The other shareholders are mostly mutual funds, who only care about stock price instead of dividends.

In other words, his bosses APPROVE of his work; in part because he himself owns a massive chunk of EXXON and is his own boss.

Which is why I wouldn't be caught dead owning that stock.

But that's what a free market looks like. The people who risked their wealth by buying shares of EXXON decide how the company gets run. And frankly, they're running it into the ground.

But hey, that's how capitalism works. Once they kill it, they'll leave a niche open for a successful company to occupy.

.

I did not mean to point my criticism at you although it seems that way.
I see your point from the business capitalism world perspective, but to say that spending less than one earns will make one rich.

That's funny!

Welp, when I move from this shoebox into a more spacious area, I intend to do a lot more things to be self sufficient. I plan on building a solar rooftop collector, I plan on making homebrew once again, I am even going to grow a vegetable garden.
I hate dependency, I hate my dependence enriching fat cats.

I understand your position dr_strangecraft, sometimes my vitriol gets in the way of some common sense, but what I do know is that there are a lot of disadvantaged people in the world and our planet is damaged to the point of an uncertain future.
Sorry if I blame the worlds problems on those who are the architecs of its destruction.
I'm sorry that I hate the greed that causes these things.

We have different opinions, yet they merge at certain points.

Originally posted by Toadmund
I did not mean to point my criticism at you although it seems that way.
I see your point from the business capitalism world perspective,

Please don't get me wrong, either. There's plenty wrong with capitalism, even in purely theoretical terms. And I certainly don't mean to imply that you're points are not valid. I'm just showing the "heads" side of the coin.

Originally posted by Toadmund
but to say that spending less than one earns will make one rich.

That's funny!

It may be funny. It's still true, though. One of the richest men I've ever known never had any wage-earning job except for that of High school English teacher. I'm serious. Think about it. Of course, I didn't mention the second half of the secret, but here it is:

Put your money to work for you, instead of working for your money.

Unless you want to become a financial analyst, the best way is probably by buying US savings bonds. Right now, they will mature faster than the twenty year date on the contract. When they mature, you reinvest in bigger ones. And the money you invest is not taxed.

If you want riskier investments, you'll make more money. I suggest a mix of the two programs for young people, using what was once reffered to as "The Harvard Plan." Since it's the program Harvard uses to invest it's billions. No Financial planner will admit it exists, because if you follow it, you don't need a financial planner. anyone is free to u2u me for details.

Originally posted by Toadmund
I understand your position dr_strangecraft, sometimes my vitriol gets in the way of some common sense, but what I do know is that there are a lot of disadvantaged people in the world and our planet is damaged to the point of an uncertain future.
Sorry if I blame the worlds problems on those who are the architecs of its destruction.
I'm sorry that I hate the greed that causes these things.

We have different opinions, yet they merge at certain points.

I agree there ARE a lot of disadvantaged people, who are not at fault and are not lazy. I spend part of my spare time trying to help the ones I can reach, with my money and my personal assistance.

I honestly believe that the best hope for them is actually learning to work the system.

As a footnote, I DON'T believe in unfettered capitalism. But I've spent a lot of my own time looking at Exxon. First, the industry is totally screwed up by government intervention, re the denial of additional refining capacity. And communist-style price controls. Second, the few companies left in the oil processing biz have gotten huge lobby power in congress, and use the system to make sure there's no actual competition. Third, they are in a dinosaur industry, that is ripe for being surpassed.

And finally, when you look at their profit margins, they are incredibly low. On a profit-per-share-basis, Coca Cola made more money last year for its shareholders than Exxon did.

But the anticapitalist can lynch exxon because everybody "knows" exxon is rotten and evil.

So what minority shall we choose next? Shall we rob from the rich until everyone is poor? Will that fix things?

Have you ever gotten hired for a job by a homeless person? Neither have I. The only people who've every hired me (besides government), were rich people. THEY are the ones creating jobs. And that's the ugly truth.

.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Toadmund
I did not mean to point my criticism at you although it seems that way.
I see your point from the business capitalism world perspective,

Please don't get me wrong, either. There's plenty wrong with capitalism, even in purely theoretical terms. And I certainly don't mean to imply that you're points are not valid. I'm just showing the "heads" side of the coin.

Text Blue
I will also agree that Capitalism is not perfect. The perfect solution is to have everyone win. But thats not the real world. CApitalism may not be perfect, but it gives you the choice of free will. (A concept I don't think many here understand, from reading this post and others). Free will means you, get to choose what you invest in. Sometimes you will win, sometimes you will lose. But it gives the choice to the people. And the people can always invest in things like Govt. bonds that have a guaranteed return. They may not make you rich, but you will get a return on your investment.

Originally posted by Toadmund
but to say that spending less than one earns will make one rich.

That's funny!

It may be funny. It's still true, though. One of the richest men I've ever known never had any wage-earning job except for that of High school English teacher. I'm serious. Think about it. Of course, I didn't mention the second half of the secret, but here it is:

Put your money to work for you, instead of working for your money.

Unless you want to become a financial analyst, the best way is probably by buying US savings bonds. Right now, they will mature faster than the twenty year date on the contract. When they mature, you reinvest in bigger ones. And the money you invest is not taxed.

If you want riskier investments, you'll make more money. I suggest a mix of the two programs for young people, using what was once reffered to as "The Harvard Plan." Since it's the program Harvard uses to invest it's billions. No Financial planner will admit it exists, because if you follow it, you don't need a financial planner. anyone is free to u2u me for details.

See my above thoughts.

Originally posted by Toadmund
I understand your position dr_strangecraft, sometimes my vitriol gets in the way of some common sense, but what I do know is that there are a lot of disadvantaged people in the world and our planet is damaged to the point of an uncertain future.
Sorry if I blame the worlds problems on those who are the architecs of its destruction.
I'm sorry that I hate the greed that causes these things.

We have different opinions, yet they merge at certain points.

I agree there ARE a lot of disadvantaged people, who are not at fault and are not lazy. I spend part of my spare time trying to help the ones I can reach, with my money and my personal assistance.

I honestly believe that the best hope for them is actually learning to work the system.

I am mixed on this point, because I see 2 classes of disadvantaged people.
1st there are those who are disadvantaged, that are able bodied. These are people who could go out and work, but instead, choose to let the Govt. support them. These are the people we need to concentrate on. We need to pass a law that all able bodied persons on Welfare, need to find a job. Even if it is a minimum wage job working at McDonalds or Burger King. Then the Govt will make up the difference between what you make on that job and what you receive in your Welfare check. While I know this will upset "Pure" conservatives, it is a start. Think of the money we will save. For those who say jobs are not out there. Isay, make them work the jobs :illegals" do. If they don't like their jobs, I'm willing to help further by helping to educate them, train them in job specific skills, or even pay for an apprenticeship. What I'm not willing to do, is to pay for someone who is not willing to help themselves. Also, with this, if they are able bodied and refuse to work, then they are cut off completely from the Govt. Teet. If you can work, take any job and we'll help you. But if you refuse, then you are completely on your own. (While this will never pass due to politics, think of the money saved!!)

2nd..there are those disadvataged, who are unable to help themselves. I am willing to support these people 100%. But again, those who are able bodied and refuse to help themselves, should be cut off!!!


As a footnote, I DON'T believe in unfettered capitalism. But I've spent a lot of my own time looking at Exxon. First, the industry is totally screwed up by government intervention, re the denial of additional refining capacity. And communist-style price controls. Second, the few companies left in the oil processing biz have gotten huge lobby power in congress, and use the system to make sure there's no actual competition. Third, they are in a dinosaur industry, that is ripe for being surpassed.

And finally, when you look at their profit margins, they are incredibly low. On a profit-per-share-basis, Coca Cola made more money last year for its shareholders than Exxon did.

But the anticapitalist can lynch exxon because everybody "knows" exxon is rotten and evil.

So what minority shall we choose next? Shall we rob from the rich until everyone is poor? Will that fix things?

Have you ever gotten hired for a job by a homeless person? Neither have I. The only people who've every hired me (besides government), were rich people. THEY are the ones creating jobs. And that's the ugly truth.

.

Yes, the Govt. should stay out of the way business is run. Unless it interferes with national security or the well being of the populace...BUTT OUT!
Corporate Lobbyists should be outlawed. Unless you can run a business within the commen sense of what is right and what is wrong, you should be shut down. Our elected Representatives are their to serve the people...the Constitution says so. They are not their to serve Big Business. IF the everyday Joe, Sam, and Tom...want to join together to lobby their elected offical...by all means do so. But corporations..NO WAY. On this subject, let me go into another pet peeve of mine UNIONS. While they had their place in the past, they are no longer needed today. YES, I am against unions. I do not think that they employees of a company have a right to tell their employeers how they can do business. If you don't believe me, please read the following article...
www.vonmises.org...

Unions are destroying this country and it's ability to survive in a global market. Yes at one point unions were needed. But with todays instant communication through the internet, cell phones, etc. it is hard to believe that companies can get away with the things they did before unions.

Unions, like the Oil industry are DINOSAURS. Both have got to let go, so that the next age may move in. What this next age is, I'm not sure. We have bio-deisel, ethanol, natural gas, hydrogen, fuel cells, etc... The company that comes up with the next fuel source stands to make a mint! All the unions are doing is holding these companies down in the past. Is this change gonna hurt, HELL YEAH...but if you are willing to adapt, and move foreward in the end, everyone who lost from change has a chamce to win.

CSrules said:

Corporate Lobbyists should be outlawed. Unless you can run a business within the commen sense of what is right and what is wrong, you should be shut down. Our elected Representatives are their to serve the people...the Constitution says so.

Wasn't it made law that corporations could be considered individuals by law?
Yes I'll find a link
OK here: (I know it's wiki, but it'll do)
en.wikipedia.org...

The law typically views a corporation as a fictional person, a legal person, or a moral person (as opposed to a natural person); United States law recognises this as corporate personhood. Under such a doctrine (obviously a legal fiction), a corporation enjoys many of the rights and obligations of individual persons, such as the ability to own property, sign binding contracts, pay taxes, have certain constitutional rights, and otherwise participate in society. (Note that corporations do not possess all the rights appertaining to individuals: in most jurisdictions, for example, a corporation cannot become a citizen and vote.)

Well I don't know what status corporations had during the drafting of the constitution, but today they have the same rights as an individual and until the law is changed big business will always trump your rights. Simply because they have money and much more clout than you, or Joe Blo next door.



[edit (unintentional smily) on 21-4-2006 by Toadmund]

[edit (beer taking effect) on 21-4-2006 by Toadmund]

[edit on 21-4-2006 by Toadmund]