Berlin Wall Type Defense is the only proven way to keep mexicans out of US

Originally posted by FredT
Not the America I want to live in

So what is the American way to live? Flying Mexican flags, speaking in Spanish, calling for all Whites to go back to Europe?

FredT, is that how you want to live, that sure is hell ain't the society I imagine my children to grow up.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Nygdan, you are wrong!

Using armed defence of our borders WILL slow the flow of "ILLEGALS" from Mexico to a trickle of what it is today. I noticed you did not deny what i said, so you must agree that it slow the flow.

Sure, it will slow it, but it won't stop it and it will be incredibly expensive, it will cause agitaion amoung the current immigrants, illegal and otherwise, be a waste of our military resources, and make the need to illegals to use human smuggling gangs ever greater, thus making them richer and stronger.

You said, it was not worth it, what is securing the US border worth?

Its not worth having troopers on the streets dragging people out of their homes or having a giant cement slab on the border, or even having a huge military pressence on the border.

As for the child of 2 illegall's, no, it should not be just as much of a citizen as someone who is born of 2 US citizens. The child is a mexican child of 2 mexican parents.

So what? They were born in the US, they have done everything you have done to become a citizen. Hell, more so, since your parents (presumably) just happened to be born here, whereas these people struggle and fight to get here.

It is the FLOOD of ILLEGAL's that causes the problem.

What flood? There's not a flood of illegals, there are a lot of legal immigrants from south of the border, and there aren't that many illegals in the country. They're certainly not causing a problem worthy of this amount of hysteria.

apc
Flying a Mexican flag results in immediate deportation without trial.

This, of course, would be unconstitutional, as you'd at least need something like a trial to show that the person isn't a citizen.

Anchor babies must learn English or they will not be permitted to enroll in public education.

Thats absurd. And what of children of legal immigrants? Do irish illegals have to take lessons to speak without a brogue?

I have no problem at all for those who come here strictly to make a living HERE, not send all their money back to Mexico.

There's nothing illegal about that, and clearly you can't determine that before hand.

Require positive identification on all welfare recipients/applicants.

Like what? What form of identification issued to a naturalized citizen can't be adequately copied?

Originally posted by darklord12
So your solution to the problem is to use the same draconian tactics the Communist used, if thats the case then kiss the The Bill of Rights and The Consitution good Bye.

Who needs that worthless scrap of paper, we have terrorists and mexicans trying to take over our country and burn down all the Wal-Marts and replace them with Taco stands and Turban stores. This is a state of emergancy not like all the other little problems we have had in the past like WW2 and the Civil War. It might have served us then but it is clearly an outdated notion when confronted with the horrible realitys of today.

We cant expect the old ways to work now.....to remain free we must.........

Build a wall completly around the USA, complete with landmines, machine gins, mustard gas and small tatical nukes

Allow the Government complete access to our work, medical, tax, etc records to help find the terroists/mexicans.....or "Terricans"

Have the Government go door to door across the nation throughly searching every home and business for "Terricans" or their supporters, you can tell them from us real humans by the kind of spices the use in their food and their funny way of talking.

We must allow the government to put a chip in us so they can tell us apart from them.....also allow them to place cameras and recording devices in every room of our houses including bedrooms and bathrooms so the "Terricans" will have no place to hide..........If you are innocent you have nothing to worry about......if you disagree you are obviously a "Terrican" supporter and should be shot along with your entire family.

Remember the only way we can insure our freedom is to blindly obey the government without question.


OR

We might be overreacting a little, lead on by the crisis of the week media and a government that doesnt want us to think about OTHER things

[edit on 17-4-2006 by Amuk]

Nygdan
This, of course, would be unconstitutional, as you'd at least need something like a trial to show that the person isn't a citizen.

A small hearing then. But no full blown "lets waste some more tax money on you just to send you home" type nonsense full of bureaucraptacular hijinx. It just must be swift and decisive. Something to show that if one makes it clear they owe their allegance to a nation other than the US, after been given the equivalent of amnesty, it should be no second chance, do not pass go. Goodbye.

On the anchor babies, this would be to directly address the issues of people coming here illegally and intentionally having children in order to make it extremely difficult if not impossible to deport the parent(s). Requiring their children be able to speak English before being permitted into public education would not only eliminate the brewing language problems between teachers and students, but the process would greatly reduce any isolation the child may grow up with, and be able to incorperate into society.

There may not be anything illegal about sending all of ones earnings to a foreign country, but when the earnings are made unreported and illegally, and then sent directly out of the country... "leak" comes to mind. Cash sent to Mexico by illegal workers in the US just disappears from our economy.

And a background check can be a little hard to fake without a whole lot of money and contacts. Which your average coyote isnt exactly into putting up for whoever just got off their truck. Integrating inexpensive surface checks (copaid by the applicant) into the welfare system would reduce a host of problems, including theft by illegal aliens.

we dont need to build a wall to keep people out , just go directly to why thay come in the first place!!!

if you cant keep the kids out of the cookie jar, hide the cookies
or all youll get is crumbs

if they cant find the candy here they'll go look in other places!!!

if we keep giving, they'll keep taking.....

Use the military to patrol the boarder


hey the coast gaurd partols the coast, why not have the army and marines partol the mexican boader.Not to kill people, unless the are a threat, but to patrol people trying to get across. Maybe thier presence there might be enough , not to stop them from crossing, but maybe stop enough of them. until the government can figure out what to do.

Originally posted by ANOK
Mexicans are not the only illegals in the U.S.

You gonna build a wall to stop illegal Euro's, Canadians, Chinese, Middle Easterners etc... also?

I guess you are only worried about Mexicans?

If there were an estimated 15 million illegal aliens here from each of these countries then I would approve of a plan to stop illegal immigration from these countries. I have no suggestions on how to do that though.

Originally posted by ANOK
Maybe the wall should have been built 300 yrs ago, and then you wouldn't have to worry about it at all?? It would have stopped ALL the illegal immigrants. Maybe then American Natives wouldn't need reservations and casino's?

If the original occupants of this country had the means to build such a wall they should have. Unfortunately we cannot change the past but we can try to affect the future.

Originally posted by ANOKHow can anybody cry about illegal immigration when we are all basically here illegal, living on land stolen from the Natives and Mexico! Time doesn't change the past. You can't steal something and then make laws making it your own, and then expect the victim to abide by that law.

So we should just rescind all the immigration laws and let everyone come as they wish?

Originally posted by ANOKWhat if we built a wall to stop the Irish comming here after the potato famin of in the 1840's.

It probably wouldn't have made much of a difference since the majority of those people came here legally.

Originally posted by ANOK Everybody who has come to America over the last 200+ yrs does so to make a better life for themselves, Mexicans are no different than your ancestors.

The illegal Mexicans are MUCH different from my ancestors because my ancestors came here legally.

Originally posted by ANOKWhat IF the wall was built before you had a chance to come here? I bet the Sioux would have been happy!

The Sioux were (unfortunately) long gone before my ancestors got here, and again I must mention that my ancestors came here legally.

I would also like to say that, in my opinion, if Afghanistan or Iraq were just across our southern border many people would have no problem at all with putting up a wall, fence, mine field, guard towers, or whatever to keep the "enemy" out.

Originally posted by spector
we dont need to build a wall to keep people out , just go directly to why thay come in the first place!!!

if you cant keep the kids out of the cookie jar, hide the cookies
or all youll get is crumbs

if they cant find the candy here they'll go look in other places!!!

if we keep giving, they'll keep taking.....

Waht an excelent idea, let's kill the economy and pay everyone the same as they pay in mexico!
Then there's no reason to come here!!!

OR

We stop wasting money on treating the symptoms and go for the source of the problem.
Do to mexico what we tried to do with Iraq.
Tear down it's corrupt government and restructure it in our own image

OR

We build a river from gulf to pacific ocean and have a chain link fence on both banks with electrified rasor wire all over the place.
They try to cut through it they get hit with 500,000 volts
Only way over then is via catapult!


I'm full of sarcasim tonight ain't I?
Sorry everyone!

I feel I must point out, to all on this thread, that the native americans didn't issue immigration papers to anyone - the old Europeans just showed up and took over - there was no "legal" framework for that.

Going by the OP's premise, you should all be packing your bags and getting on boats


[edit on 18-4-2006 by neformore]

Originally posted by Amuk

We might be overreacting a little, lead on by the crisis of the week media and a government that doesnt want us to think about OTHER things

Amuk I've been saying this all along. This situation has been orchestrated by our own government to keep ours minds off of what is really going on in the world. Sadly, there are just too many emotional outburst over this crisis of the week. People tend to stop thinking critically whenever they respond with the emotion I've seen in some of these threads.

Originally posted by apc
A few warning shots will deter most. If not, let them come across. Don't kill them (funny hearing that from me, eh?). Just escort them back across at gunpoint. If they put up a fight, take off their foot. That would get the point across.

Hasn't the latest justification for the Iraq war been to liberate them from Saddam's reign of violence where he'd cut people's hands and feet off as punishment?

Flying a Mexican flag results in immediate deportation without trial.

I, and anyone else, are free to fly whatever flag they want.

Possession of a gun results in immediate deportation without trial.

Second amendment.

Anchor babies must learn English or they will not be permitted to enroll in public education.

I agree that they should learn English, but it's ridiculous to ban them from enrolling in school. That's like saying "Become educated or we'll prevent you from becoming educated."

All cash wire transfers to Mexico will have a 50% tax. This will not apply to bank-to-bank transfers, only cash transactions.

No. It's their money, they can do what they want with it and send it where they want.

posted by ANOK: “ . . the statistics contradict your obvious bias towards Mexicans and the fake hysteria of illegal immigration so you go on the attack . . What gives you more right to be somewhere than someone else? Birth? Well I was born on planet Earth, so on planet Earth I'll go where I wish. [Edited by Don W]

I’m with you in spirit, ANOK, but be practical. I believe the UN has 191 member states albeit some, like Anguilla or maybe the Seychelles, can hardly be “independent” of their “parent” country. I seem to recall from history, the early Greeks did not look kindly on strangers. Semitic people, on the other hand, seem to be the most receptive to strangers. I suspect the fish rule applied; after three days and etc. Strangers were well received in the United States until the post War 2 era.

There have to be other ways to gain control over the influx of people seeking work. I’ve posted elsewhere that raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour would stop the influx, IMO, because you’d have many Americans seeking those jobs.

Originally posted by LoganCale
Hasn't the latest justification for the Iraq war been to liberate them from Saddam's reign of violence where he'd cut people's hands and feet off as punishment?

It worked didn't it? Kidding... but, police officers are permitted to break the arm of someone who is resisting arrest. Like I said, if a border crosser fights being escorted back across the border, I see nothing wrong with putting a hole in their foot. With a situation such as this one, brutal action is required to get the message to others that trespassing will no longer be tolerated.

Flying the flag of another nation implies allegance to that nation. If some skinhead rode around waving a Nazi flag in everyone's faces, how long do you think he would last? Since it is apparent that there is, once again, not going to be any way around amnesty, it should be made very clear that if the "former-illegal" makes it known that he has rejected his gift of legality and remains loyal to his former homeland, he should be sent back. No good can come from allowing them to stay.

Second amendment... heh... tell that to felons. If a felon is caught with a gun, they go straight to prison. Again, since amnesty is unavoidable, the once illegals should be treated as any other felon. They should not be allowed to vote, have guns, and should be limited in what jobs they can apply for. They would have already been given a massive gift in the form of amnesty. To ask for more is ridiculous.

And absolutely anchor babies should be required to learn English before enrolling in public education. If the parents dont want to teach their children English (simultaneously stating they do not wish their child to be an American), then they can spend those hard earned bucks on private schooling. This is not to punish the children, they are innocent. This is to deal with the fact that the parents come here and use their own flesh and blood as an excuse to break the law. And this excuse, the child, directly impacts the effectivness of public education due to the inability of the child to understand English. Nothing personal against them, just defending our schools. They need all the help they can get right now.

The cash wire transfers I will fault on. There is of course no way to discriminate between legitimate and illegitimate moneys. This idea stems from the need to recoup lost tax revenue from the illegal cash workers that do not report their income. While the total amount may not be significant, it is still a leak in our economy never to return. Likely ending up in Pres. Foxxy's pocket, eventually.

> On the issue of this all being a distraction, I am certainly not "distracted." I have to deal with this crap every single day because of a poor choice in residency. I moved into this neighborhood to test the waters in contemplation of purchasing a house here, only to discover it was one giant garbage can full of illegal immigrants. My passion for this issue does not come from the media or stories. It comes from what I see in my parking lot. It comes from what I see in the grocery store. It comes from what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears. The argument of "but not all of them are drug dealing, woman assaulting, littering criminals!" is irrelevant. Not all of us kill people either, but murder is still a crime, isn't it? The issue has to be generalized, because there's no other way to deal with them as a whole.


[edit on 18-4-2006 by apc]

Originally posted by neformore
I feel I must point out, to all on this thread, that the native americans didn't issue immigration papers to anyone - the old Europeans just showed up and took over - there was no "legal" framework for that.

Going by the OP's premise, you should all be packing your bags and getting on boats

That really has no relavance since the world is a completely different place than it was 100-400 years ago.
Women and minorities have rights and can vote and can goto the same schools as white boys.
Everyone has all the knowledge in the world at their fingertips everytime they use Google.

People now realize that taking from people without asking is theft and wrong but we're not about to give up our land because of the sins of our fathers.

You dont hear the Brittish complaining about the Romans invading and conquering their lands do you?
No, they adapted to it and survived, unlike the Native Americans who in a vainly attempted to isolate themselves from the outside world and are now all but extinct.

I still say we dig a river from the gulf to the pacific and line both banks with rasor wire.
Won't keep em all out, but it'll slow em down.

When this "story" first broke, the radio report was 1.2 million illegal alians. I have seen that estimate steadily rise to 15 million. Who is doing the estimates and how are they being calculated? This is very suspect. The media is only sesationalizing to promote fear.

LINK

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) -- Minuteman border watch leader Chris Simcox has a message for President Bush: Build new security fencing along the border with Mexico or private citizens will.

Simcox said Wednesday that he's sending an ultimatum to the president, through the media, of course - "You can't get through to the president any other way" - to deploy military reserves and the National Guard to the Arizona border by May 25.

Well, push is coming to shove on this issue.

JDub

Originally posted by apc
A small hearing then. But no full blown "lets waste some more tax money on you just to send you home" type nonsense full of bureaucraptacular hijinx.

The government does not have the right, nor the power, to revoke citizenship from a citizen like that.

Requiring their children be able to speak English before being permitted into public education

How would that even work???? Whats better, a mass of people that not only don't speak english, but haven't even gotten a high school education, or having some spanish speakers in public schools?

And, as citizens, regardless of what language they speak, they are entitled to a public education, just as much as the citizens that do speak english.

And a background check can be a little hard to fake without a whole lot of money and contacts. Which your average coyote isnt exactly into putting up for whoever just got off their truck. Integrating inexpensive surface checks (copaid by the applicant) into the welfare system would reduce a host of problems, including theft by illegal aliens.

I don't understand, are you saying that we should have background checks at the point of public services, like you go to the hospital, and a background check is done before you are serviced, or are you talking about getting into the country?


Anyone that is not a criminal should be let into the country.

cyraxx
why not have the army and marines partol the mexican boader

Because it'd be a waste of resources, wouldn't work, and all to stop what? Basically good people from entering the country???? I agree illegal immigration is a problem, but not on this scale, and certainly not one that can be fixed with a wall or troops.

craig732
So we should just rescind all the immigration laws and let everyone come as they wish?

Sure, why not? Short of criminals, why the heck not?

or whatever to keep the "enemy" out.

Since when are mexicans the enemy?

mrjones
unlike the Native Americans who in a vainly attempted to isolate themselves from the outside world and are now all but extinct.

..
The natives were put onto reservations, every time they left the reservations they got rounded up and shot. They're practically extinct because of disease, not self-destruction.

bluetilespook
Build new security fencing along the border with Mexico or private citizens will.

I was skeptical of the minutemen at first, seemed like the idea would invite yahoos. But they've done a great job of weeding out those types, educating their members on what to do, and their basic premise, that citizens can do the job, has been demonstrated. This is the next logical step. I disagree that a wall is going to help, but agree that something needs to be done, to stop illegal immigration.

Almost one year ago I submitted this to ATSNN. The issue of placing any nations flag (let alone a Mexican one) above ours in the US was greated with disinterest or a so what attitude. I saw then what was in the air. Big difference what nearly one year can make.

If that happened today, it would probably get an Exclusive rating. So where was everyone last year when these things were going on? Or do we all just jump on the emotional bandwagon of the day?

Originally posted by Nygdan
The government does not have the right, nor the power, to revoke citizenship from a citizen like that.

We should if they were given amnesty. I reiterate, all my suggestions only apply to illegal aliens that have been given the gift of amnesty.

How would that even work???? Whats better, a mass of people that not only don't speak english, but haven't even gotten a high school education, or having some spanish speakers in public schools?

We already have the former. If the intention is to treat them as special people by providing them with a special teacher, then I guess they should be treated as special people in every other aspect. It's what they demand anyway, right?

As for the background check, just a quick verification of identity before providing social services. Many immigrants get welfare through their citizen child (their anchor baby, in this case). If an immigrant was illegal and granted amnesty, they should be ineligible for welfare under any condition.

I didn't say anything about hospitals. If the illegal has been granted amnesty, they have every right to hospital service and should be as easy to bill as a native citizen. If the patient is an alien who remains illegal, hospitals should be permitted to notify authorities just as they are if a gunshot or drug overdose comes in.

Anyone that is not a criminal should be let into the country.

As long as they are not committing a crime by doing so.