We would transcend time and space becoming something else entirely, because we definitely would no longer be human...

Filled the tank yesterday in case the recent rattling from Iran causes a spike on Monday. Looks like Im going to be getting plenty of use from my 80 MPG moped this summer.

$6 a gallon? I just hope we can make it atleast two more years until that time... enough time to get out of the city.

Im not surprised that Europe is already nearing $6.00 a gallon. Its only a matter of time in the United States now. Its just going to keep going higher and higher....

When will it end?

Originally posted by apc
$6 a gallon? I just hope we can make it atleast two more years until that time... enough time to get out of the city.

Out? I will be moving to the city. In a city, I won't need a car. I lived in Chicago for a while and never wanted one. The train, some nice Nikes, and some Mission hockey skates are all I ever needed to get around.

That or we can all go live in the woods like hunter/gatherers. Back to our roots, eh? I knew there was a reason I have been practicing catching fish since I was 2. I can't wait.

If we were in the Country, it would take a lot longer for us to move around, so you would need a car. Everything is closer in a city, so cities would rise in population as the gas prices get higher. Maybe thats why there is not many people living in the country in Europe and other places where gas ia at $6.00 a gallon.

Just a thought.

5aret

In the city, you risk quite a bit when things really start to go bad. If we entered another great depression, or worse... civil war, things may be a lot more difficult than riding your bike to the grocery store to buy food. There might not be any food to buy. And I would rather not have to barricade myself into my own home and sit quietly avoiding the riots and gun fights outside. When gangs have better weapons than the cops, and infrastructure collapses, things get very messy very fast. NO is an example on a very small scale.

I hope to get a decent sized plot of land outside of the city. Somewhere where I can grow most of my own food, cook my own biodiesel, generate my own power, etc. To be dependant on city services is not a dependancy that can last.

So you mean like going back to the 1700's and 1800's? In the west they did the same thing, bought land and lived off of it for their food, water, and shelter.

Originally posted by 5aret
So the question is why does Europe have cars that save gas but the USA has the same cars that save less gas. So why?

5aret

Emissions laws. Cars have to burn the same (gas, not diesel) fuel and have cleaner emissions then there European counterparts.

Think back to the Dodge Colt and Plymouth Champ. In 79 a 1.4 liter four banger would get up to 54 MPG on the highway. (76?) Plyouth Feather Duster could get MPG in the high 30's low 40's


In Europe the Chrysler 300 (Dodge magnum with 300 trim) gets over 40 MPG. And that is a big wagon.

Cars have gotten heavier and polution laws have gotten stricter

Originally posted by uuhelpus



Emissions laws. Cars have to burn the same (gas, not diesel) fuel

Cars have gotten heavier and polution laws have gotten stricter

they don't have to burn just gas. they can burn diesel also. they sell diesel cars here.

in europe they just have less strict laws. california has the strictest and so everyone wants to sell there.

for the most part cars have gotten lighter not heavier.

the sooner it's 6 bucks a gallon the sooner we can solve the problem with the middle east.

Why do you say that? For all we know, it could make problems within the middle east even worse.

Originally posted by 5aret
Why do you say that? For all we know, it could make problems within the middle east even worse.

Only if gas goes up that high will there be a reason, (see laws of supply and demand) to bring in substitutes such as e85 to market. It has been proven that most americans think with their wallet. The only way one would ever try another form of gas is if it were a decent amount cheaper to gas(and wouldnt blow the engine).

Think about it, would a guy that loves his car ever switch from gas to e85 if he doesn't have to. No, because e85 could potentially tear his engine apart and he won't even get the same power, but if it were much cheaper and just as reliable....

I have heard that scientists are researching alternate forms of fuel and are close to a breakthrough. Not 100% sure where I heard this, but I will check it out.

The U.S. incinerates so much corn each year it is mind blowing, ethanol/methanol seems to be the way to go, at least for the next 100 years.

Originally posted by bigx01

Originally posted by uuhelpus



Emissions laws. Cars have to burn the same (gas, not diesel) fuel

Cars have gotten heavier and polution laws have gotten stricter

they don't have to burn just gas. they can burn diesel also. they sell diesel cars here.

in europe they just have less strict laws. california has the strictest and so everyone wants to sell there.

for the most part cars have gotten lighter not heavier.

Yes, I am aware that diesal is much more common for light cars in europe.
I was refering to the fact that the type of diesel and the engines are different than what you see in the US.

With anyluck Blue Tech diesel systems will make there way to the US.
*Can see a 300 CRD in driveway*

Its really funny how our economy is stablized here in America. No longer backed by gold means we are backed simply by American income and buisness as a whole. Needless to say the people at ATS are aware of the demand for oil , it may be less apparent that the value of American currenty is descending. Minimum wage driving up and the constent production of currency means less value. Gas will be $6.00 a gallon in Eastern America around mid summer 2007.

Originally posted by 5aret
So you mean like going back to the 1700's and 1800's? In the west they did the same thing, bought land and lived off of it for their food, water, and shelter.

Basically, plus retain the ability to use a vehicle (run on biodiesel).

Bio for automotive fuel. Ethanol for power generation (and consumtion, of course). High density crops. Etc. A good blend of old and new technology, with the new used to optimize the old.

When gas gets to $6.00 a gal, we will likely already be experiencing a depression. People who already were having trouble with fuel prices would be driven into poverty. They would be unable to pay their bills or the credit cards that would probably already be at their max. Interest rates would skyrocket to make up for the losses (since it is now very hard for people to declare bankruptcy for credit card debt), which would send even more borderline people into poverty. With poverty comes crime, and violence (interestingly enough, another companion to poverty is high enlistment in the armed forces).

Too many possible routes this all could take. But I gotta tell yah, there aren't many good ones. If the disaster at New Orleans taught us anything, it's that when things hit the fan, the only people we can depend on are ourselves.

The people of ATS are well aware of oil demand. However, how many of you have thought of the value of American Currency descending? This is because updrive of minimum wage and no material base for the economy. Gas will be $6.00 a gallon by mid summer 2007.

Originally posted by nuclearap0x
Its really funny how our economy is stablized here in America. No longer backed by gold means we are backed simply by American income and buisness as a whole. Needless to say the people at ATS are aware of the demand for oil , it may be less apparent that the value of American currenty is descending. Minimum wage driving up and the constent production of currency means less value. Gas will be $6.00 a gallon in Eastern America around mid summer 2007.

Are you trying to say there is inflation besides in gas?
If gas is 6 bucks a gallon in the eastern us what do you predict e85 per gallon will be going for in the summer of 07? 3 bucks?