Why is race such a taboo subject?

I would like to say welcome to truthseeka. I would also like to thank you for answering the thread. You have said some fascinating things that I took under consideration today:

Originally quoted by truthseeka
Granted, I don't like when people use it as a crutch either, but to say every black person who claims racism is doing so is taurus feces.

Neither do I. And believe me, it is. However, I agree whenever there is a complaint about racism being discussed, the first thing is thrown up is the "race card"--as if to devaluate the experiences of Black people and silence them from talking about their side of the issue. It is rather impolite, for one thing. But for the other, it gives one the impression that the person who accuses another of the "race card" as a debate or discursive tactic simply doesn't want to listen to any experiences regarding race. The person just want to remain cemented to his/her own point of view. Their way or the highway--no alternative experiences regarding race-relations need apply.

My point here is that people have a problem with what they perceive as blacks playing race cards and such, while other groups can do this with impunity.

And they do. Unfortunately, they actually get their experiences validated opposed to African-Americans who don't. I think that the Holocaust continues to be recognized as a point of extreme genocide because it happened to an ethnicity of White people. And because of that, people are constantly reminded by the horrific images that something like that should not happen again. However, at the same time during WWII, Blacks are being lynched, initimidated and socially kept in their place in America. Plus, they were segregated in the army. And people take it as part and parcel of the system even though it had devestating effects.

There is a lot hypocrisy when dealing with the experiences of different groups in society.

My point is, certain comments are just idiotic, biased, or ignorant, but not necessarily racist.

I agree with you here as well. And I cannot apologize enough for my insertion into this. But, I think that some people have to consider the feelings of others before branding them with a stigma that has lasting effects in society. Some might not consider how devestating a word can be. Even if that is so, they must be considerate about others. However, it takes a polite and far more socially astute person to try and recognize the sensitivities of others and act on their convictions to see all sides of debate without judgement. Maybe someone in the likes of Mother Theresa?


Again, thank you very much for your comments. Please come back and contribute more when you have time. Your voice will always be valued here.










[edit on 31-5-2006 by ceci2006]

donwhite raised legitimate issues regarding the Willie Horton case. Yes, it was in 1988, but Mr. Horton's use was seen as controversial and rife with racism on many accounts. It was ironically one year later that another case (that jsobecky might be familiar with) made the media: the Charles Stuart case.

Of course, jsobecky might argue it was only a crime associated with Mr. Stuart's blame of a black perpetrator for the murder of his wife and the injuring of himself. However, a different perception rests with those African-American Boston citizens who were brutalized and falsely arrested by the police based on Mr. Stuart's bleating of the "race card". Oh yes. But that was only a crime--especially when Mr. Stuart committed suicide when he couldn't run anymore. However, we shouldn't racialize that, should we? It is the same blind attitude that Charles Stuart (and later Susan Smith) held that incited racial strife even though Mr. Stuart himself was the perpetrator.

So much for it being a crime. It is better to say that it is a "crime" to have an attitude in which to ignore "race" at all.

I found some excerpt that might be helpful to read which brings light to how the Republicans used and abused Mr. Horton until the bitter end.

This comes from the Museum of Broadcast Communications archives:

RACISM, ETHNICITY AND TELEVISION

It was a vision likely to reassure the white majority that it had little to learn or benefit from people of color. Rather, TV coverage of immigration and crime made it much easier to be afraid of them. George Bush's manipulation of the Willie Horton case for his 1988 campaign commercial had even the nation's vice-president and president-to-be drawing on, and thus endorsing, the standard tropes of local TV news.

This is from the American Psychological Association:

Racism and Psychology

Sears' version of the new racism describes a more elusive, political, almost abstract language of race which avoids blatantly negative racist statements in favor of political codewords and symbols. This new racism is partly based on a view of racial discrimination as being outdated and puts the onus of achievement and equality on African Americans and other ethnic minority people. If African Americans would, for example, stop clamoring for special treatment and simply work harder, they could achieve the American Dream. The idea is that it is African Americans' own deficiencies whether they be greed, laziness, violence, and so on that are the cause of their problems, not the history of slavery, segregation, discrimination, prejudice, and racism which is assumed to have come to an end.

The new racism is thought to be most visible in White persons' views on affirmative action, crime, drugs, welfare, teenage pregnancy, and unemployment. Conversations on these topics often are dominated by an unspoken subtext of racial attitudes. Consistent with the theory of illusory correlation, it is often assumed (despite statistics to the contrary) that the majority of persons involved in such activities are ethnic minorities. Consequently, unspoken racial attitudes shape our definition of such problems and their resolutions. The Willie Horton commercials from George Bush's presidential campaign are an example of the symbolic racist code used to advance political positions. This new racism also integrates racial prejudice and core traditional American values. For example, the values of hard work and moral behavior are thought to be violated by stereotypes of African Americans, Latinos, and American Indians as lazy and violent.

This is from Salon.com's analysis of Trent Lott's politics. Robert Scheer presents a telling analysis of the Willie Horton ads:

Lott's long affair with racism

Lott is above all else a politician, and his playing the race card, while periodically impolitic, has been the consistent subtext of Republican campaigns for decades, even in national races. Recall Lee Atwater's use of the Willie Horton scare endorsed by the elder George Bush in his winning campaign against Michael Dukakis, or the intimidating attacks on black voting in Florida and elsewhere in the 2000 presidential election[...]It is interesting to note that prominent African-American Republicans Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice have ignored Lott's appeals for support in his current crisis.

And this comes from the Kentucky Courier-Journal:

A retreat on civil rights
Meantime, Republicans continued to use racist appeals as an organizing tool - one example being the 1988 Willie Horton episode, when the George Bush campaign frightened white voters with an image of a black rapist turned loose by bleeding-heart Democrats.

We are not uncritical of the Democratic Party. But it is Republicans who have consciously used racism to get votes. That goes beyond politics. With the racial divide being the most critical issue our society faces, this is criminal. Even Lee Atwater, who developed the Willie Horton ads, repented before he died, and apologized.

Here are four different cases that define the "Willie Horton" Ads to be racist in their perception. And when Lee Atwater, creator of the Horton ad Campaign, apologizes to Ron Brown before he dies of a brain tumor, you know he knew what its specific aim was supposed to be.










[edit on 31-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Cece,

AGAIN my main gripe with you was that I gave an example of a very racist attack on me.. and you questioned whether I interprited the motivations correctly. You apologised, retracted it [which I had a problem with].. THEN told me to be frank about why your questions annoyed me ..at which point I said I believe that you were racially motivated to doubt me [which I still believe].. then you took offense despite REQUESTING that honesty.. and despite the fact that I said to drop it.
That original reply in context:

No, you didn't imagine your attack. And I think it is sad that someone attacked you simply because of color. I can tell from the tone of your words that you are still angry about it. But, simply blaming an entire race on a single confrontation is also bad. You've got to readjust your mind-set to think clearly about the situation. What led up to this? Why do you suppose you were called that derogatory name? What precipitated the fight? You have to put it all into context

Your first response accuses me [of racism] and of confusing racism with a personal conflict. THAT IS DOUBT. You may've said that I didn't imagine my racist attack.. but you certainly questioned the motives behind it otherwise you would not have asked those questions. I tried to explain this to you with the 'N' word example of how you would feel.. but instead the only challenge from that post that you've taken was to go through all my posts deperately trying to find examples of me being racist but you haven't [aside from cutting a sentence in half to 'fit'.] and you completely ignored my request to put yourself in my shoes regarding my peticular experience. At this point I AGAIN ask you to DROP that peticular subject. I've only re-posted this because you have taken snippets of biased things I have said and tried to put a spin on them. This is the LAST time I explain my actions and perception to you. You ASKED for my opinions.. don't keep getting offended because you don't agree with them.

Colonialism.. my not discussing it above other examples of racism does not make me racist, neither is it an action of dismissing history. The possible existence of Irish Amercian Slave owners does not make my Irish ancestors guilty of slavery any more than it does your african ancestors.. nor does it obligate me to feel anymore guily about it. Sorry but I don't and shouldn't.

MOST races have tried to conquer others and are guilty of enslaving.. 'whites' have been the most recent [as in legal slavery] but that does not negate the others.. and don't forget that some slave traders were mostly NON white and either african or spanish themselves [I have no idea what race/colour present day slave traders are but IMO it doesn't matter- point is they STILL exist]. The only shame I carry for these things is that HUMANS BEINGS are capable of atrocities. No race is more moral than another and are equally as capable of abusing power over others when they have it. I said Egyptions had slaves.. you respodned by bringing up british history and relics in museums. That does not change the fact that egyptions had slaves.. it is not a tit for tat competition on WHO has acted worse than the other throughout human history.
I also have never said I think all black condone white racism.. I said the guy who attacked me used my 'guilty' colour to justify it and I have heared non whites say it before.. just as I have heared whites be racist. Again.. this is the LAST time I explain myself to you. I do not want to discuss this with you anymore and don't want to see another 'AS FOR RILEY. Installment 6". It is NOT about 'bowing out' when the tables are turned either.. it is about your continued habbit of trying to suck people into confrontations

'Give your opinions.. it's about sharing, learning and understanding.. I want to usher in a new understanding between the races; whites, blacks and coloured and the like.. be honest with me.. I promise I won't be offended. What? How can you have THAT opinion? I said something you don't agree with?! Stop attacking me! This is a witch hunt!!"

:shk:

This is why I am staying away from you from now on. Please accept it and do not continue trying to antagonise people.. especially me.

EDIT. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about your original reply about my attack, now I'm convinced [from your referencing WW2] you wanted this thread to be anti-white. You must be so disapointed that it wasn't.

However, I agree whenever there is a complaint about racism being discussed, the first thing is thrown up is the "race card"--as if to devaluate the experiences of Black people and silence them from talking about their side of the issue. It is rather impolite, for one thing. But for the other, it gives one the impression that the person who accuses another of the "race card" as a debate or discursive tactic simply doesn't want to listen to any experiences regarding race.

But didn't you agree before that some 'non whites' use the race card to justify racism?
I'm so sorry that my experience as a caucasion experiencing racism [that involed the 'race card' to justify it] compromised your monopoly on being a victim. Fine.. feel free to pull the 'race card' when ever you wish.. just don't expect it to work. EVERYONE experiences racism at one time or other.. it's just some like to do it and 'be the innocent' at the same time.
And THIS:

I think that the Holocaust continues to be recognized as a point of extreme genocide because it happened to an ethnicity of White people. And because of that, people are constantly reminded by the horrific images that something like that should not happen again.

Something like 2 million people were executed.. [not only jews but mostly] your assertion that they are only remembered because they were 'white' is not only offensive but delusional. It's kind of ironic as well as 'blacks' had no problem enslaving the jews. I think it's also quite shameful that you should try use remembering the holocaust as some sort of anti-black sentiment or action.. thats just desperate and is like deficating on their graves. Have some respect.. these were human beings.. it doesn't matter that they weren't mostly black. The very fact that you think it DOES however is very telling about your charactor.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by riley]

To defend Ceci, I don't think her initial phrasing, asking "what white/black/whatever people think" on a given topic was racist. How else was she to ask the question? The appropriate phrasing for the response to a question such as hers would be, "some think this, and some think that."

In asking that you "represent" your race, she was trying to get an idea of board members' feeling about race, and those of the people in your social/familial/occupational/etc circle. This was never meant to be an official tally. We participated in the discussion knowing that this is only an internet discussion forum.

In reference to what I see as 'ganging up on Ceci,' let's try to keep this civil. The point here isn't to pick apart her flaws, just because she started the thread. It's to change the world, through understanding and communication. We don't always have to agree.

Now, let's get to it!

Originally posted by ceci2006
1)Don't you find it highly ironic on a thread about race, that you are accusing donwhite of highlighting the racist insinuations of the Willie Horton ad?

He still hasn't pointed the racist insinuations out. Neither have you, despite trying to sidetrack the issue with comments about Charles Stuart and Trent Lott.

As far as I can tell, the ad is called racist because it showed a picture of Willie Horton, and he is black. That is racist? Please.

I was not accusing donwhite of anything; I asked him to explain what was racist about the Willie Horton ad. He could not, except to use a derogatory term for whites as a response. That's when I called him a hypocrite.



[edit on 31-5-2006 by jsobecky]

[edit on 31-5-2006 by jsobecky]

Why riley,

You're back. And I didn't even ask you. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if you didn't call me out to be a racist. And ironically, you come back (especially when you told me not to ask you back) to do yet another tirade.

You told me to keep on digging. And I did. And now that the ball's in your court, you had to come back to defend yourself.

How do you think I felt when you said, "I am fighting YOUR racism"? That is very patronizing to me. And very rude, to top it off. And I told you, your comments said a lot of things that were off-putting to me. And I dug up all the comments I felt were upsetting and commented on them. So, don't cry now. You lit the match. I made the forest fire.

We had a peaceful, civil thread about race until you came here and blew a gasket. Trying to keep the peace, I sought to understand your situation and accept your experiences. But you didn't do the same to me. Instead you turned and made accusations against me.

Certainly by your behavior, I'm not going to change my views any quicker. So if you have any questions, please ask. But don't criticize my behavior or my experiences.

I did not do the same to you. And if you are fighting OUR fight, please do show it with the utmost decorum.

This is as "controlling" as I get, btw. Otherwise, people can say whatever they want. All I ask on this thread that other posters allow me the same leeway.

Equal respect deserves equal answers. Your response to me is also very telling about your character. But I have decided not to engage in your brand of character assasination anymore. It's time to move on.

You've got to realize that this thread is made up of people from different races. Not everything is going to be centered on one race. I don't know how you have this idea in your head, but this is not an "anti-white" thread. It wasn't started as one in the first place. But like I said before, no matter what I say, you won't believe me. You'll only believe what you want to see.

I thank you for having the courage to leave. I'm sorry that you didn't find what you wanted here. However, there are probably other threads that subscribe to the needs you seek.

Besides, I didn't antagonize you. You started this yourself. You just don't have the courage to admit to your mistakes and account for your own biased tendencies.

Now, let's get back to business! I will answer other comments a little later. Thank you for your posts. And continue to ask questions! And, welcome back HarlemHottie!












[edit on 31-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Cuci, I do totaly agree with your comment on diversity. Culture is a bueatiful thing that should be appreciated, and preserved. Although when we start to define people as a particular race, other people start to compare races to one another, normaly creating dominance of one race over the other. But if we simply define different people by their particular culture, not as biologicaly different i think it brings more peace, and prosperity.

Originally posted by ceci2006
We had a peaceful, civil thread about race until you came here and blew a gasket. Trying to keep the peace, I sought to understand your situation and accept your experiences.

Peaceful? Regarding the Jews.. why didn't you complain about their treatment if you are so against racism? Instead you said that the main reason people bother remembering the holocaust is NOT because 2 million people died but because Jews aren't black. Hmm. Can't think of any other reason. You seem completely oblivious to how discrespectful AND racist such a comment is yet accuse me of charactor assasination whilst going back to the transparent sweet and innocent [and no doubt temporary] 'trying to make a better world' bs. You've done it to yourself.

If you read my comments about "Night and Fog" on this thread, I made my comments about the Holocaust.

This is what I said to jsobecky:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...
That is why Alain Resnais' Night and Fog (1955) is a very important film to me. It is a film about the Holocaust. What the director does is juxstapose the images of Auschwitz during WWII with its post-war ruins. Mr. Resnais' stark images really stuck out to me. I saw a screening of it not too long ago. It's a disturbing film, nevertheless, because it shows the terrible repercussions of war as well as its human toll. After the lights came up, no one could speak.

But then, the questions came. And what came out of it was a great discussion. It was filled with emotion at times as well as anger. But, people came away with more understanding about the horrors of the Holocaust and the information about how the film was made.

This is what I said to donwhite:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...
Now, I can say that I cannot imagine what it must have been like to been in such a horrific situation as being in a concentration camp. And even thinking about it now, it brings tears to my eyes to think how genocide was committed in the name of racism and nationalism. But by knowing history, I feel that I can be sensitive to the fact that tens of thousands of people were killed. I have seen films, read books and visited museums which highlight these facts. This I do know. We should try to stop any actions that might lead to the same thing--especially in Darfur.

Jewish and Black people do have a lot in common in terms of history, oppression and being social outsiders. However, the good thing is that for the majority of relationships between African-Americans and Jewish people have been all right.[...]All the relationships I've had with Jewish people have been fine. All the Black folk around me have treated Jews with respect. And it was the same for Jewish people too.

Please stop with trying to brand me as some unfeeling person. I said that I care for the dignity of all people and I do. I hope this demonstrates that fact. And no, I did not change my opinion about the Holocaust. I still feel heartbroken that any group of people had to die in horrific fashion. And it still pains me that people had to suffer like that in concentration camps. I just shake my head at your attempt to use such a terrible moment in history to defame me once again.

Btw, the totals estimate six million people died at the hands of the Nazis.




[edit on 31-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006

Please stop with trying to brand me as some unfeeling person. I said that I care for the dignity of all people and I do. I hope this demonstrates that fact. And no, I did not change my opinion about the Holocaust. I still feel heartbroken that any group of people had to die in horrific fashion. And it still pains me that people had to suffer like that in concentration camps. I just shake my head at your attempt to use such a terrible moment in history to defame me once again.

Btw, the totals estimate six million people died at the hands of the Nazis.

Shake you head all you want but it was not me that hoared this terrible moment in history to defame you. You are the one who brought it up.. obviously inferring that "If it had've been black people no-one would care." Stick to facts not imagined persecution.

I think that the Holocaust continues to be recognized as a point of extreme genocide because it happened to an ethnicity of White people.

It continues to be recognised as a point of extreme genocide NOT because it happened to white people; but because it WAS a time of extreme genocide. If it had've happened to black people it STILL would've been seen as an extreme act of genocide and would be remembered as such.
Take responsibilty for your own words. I am not trying to brand you as anything. I am reacting to things you have said and I just want you to be a little more thoughtful before you post things. The offensive holocaust comments had a definent anti-white sentiment that even you should be able to see.. this is not my imagination. Please discontinue making such statements as I do not want to come back to this thread.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by riley]

I am tired of bickering with you about this.

I care about the Holocaust because it demostrated the horrible actions of humanity. It also brought about an awareness that continues today when "ethnic genocide" is brought up. It tears me up how one group of people actively destroy another without any regard for dignity, humanity as well as respect. And, because Jews perished savagely during this period of time, it further serves to demonstrate how we as a collective society across the globe must stop this action from happening again.

My comments to truthseeka were this: I find it ironic that while such a terrible act was taking place in another country and that the Americans (of all races) were fighting to stop the "ethnic cleansing" that was taking place in Germany, that Black people were also going through genocide of their own.

But no one (including you) ever considers the fact that lynching and other acts of violence were taking place in the American South to intimidate Black people from seeking Civil Rights. However, what you probably won't understand is that dominant culture in America at that time was pretty much dominated by White people. They sat in the positions of power. They, while sitting in their positions of power, passed laws which pretty much fell under Jim Crow. These laws restricted the rights of a portion of American society, Black people most especially. Also during this time Japanese Americans were interred in camps of their own during this time because the American government considered them the enemy after Pearl Harbor.

I know the irony of the situation is lost upon you, but if you are equally fair about your consideration of the deaths of millions you would consider while the world was riveted to the horrific accounts overseas, they tend to forget about the terrorism against Blacks and other people of color at home by imprisonment, murder as well as a stripping of their dignity and humanity through rights to keep them apart from White society.

I am just going to ask you a question. Would you consider that fact that other people were suffering in America during WWII if the Holocaust was not mentioned? Probably not. Because the most seminal event of torture and despair was focused upon the genocide occurring in East Europe in the midst of camps as well as the forced takeover of countries through warfare and strife.

When attention is focused solely on the Holocaust, one doesn't think of parallel events also occuring during that time period. Do you not?

That is what I was trying to say. Nothing more. Nothing less. But you will still think that this is some evil agenda on an anti-White thread in which the experiences of Black people are tantamount to other races. Because you are unilaterally focused solely on seeing that other people accept "white experiences" you tend to miss other nuances. It's like I said before. You'll see what you want to see.

So I will make a proposition. The floor is yours to introduce us to your White experiences. Bring up an issue near and dear to your heart. Run with it. However, you--being White--will guide the subject matter along to make sure that this isn't "anti-white". And be prepared for the questions of others. Bring it up and see where it goes. I will not make any observations related to your subject matter--knowing how you feel about my attitude. It is up to you to maintain your issue. I will follow along and not intrude.

After this, please refrain from saying that this thread does not mention "white issues" because after your participation--if you choose to take the challenge on--it will.

As for taking responsibility of my words, I have. See my last post.

So, it's up to you to take the challenge. And while you consider it, I will take care of other comments I need to answer. If not, we have other issues to cover and business to get back to. And don't say I didn't give you a chance to take a subject on your own and make it a more inclusive thread. And please do not call this thread "anti-White" anymore.











[edit on 31-5-2006 by ceci2006]

As a Citizen from the United Kinngdom, i can tell you, race is more than a taboo subject here.

You praise your Nationality or say "I am proud to be British" you are will end up being called a BNP supporter. The English Flag has been banned in some places, cause it is apparently a "racist" flag The UK has this theory of making ethnic groups feel welcome and it mainly envolves restricting the main culture. Which is wrong. It creates more racist tension in this Country. Northern England is an area of fear, Yorkshire has areas showing National Flags and signs saying "We are white".

If a black person stands and says "i am proud to be black" in the UK, he is praised as a hero, if i stand up and say "i am proud to be white" i am a racist. But there is no differences between these statement. Neither of us are racist, we are proud of race.

I do question multiculturalism. Does it make us feel equal or does it deny another of his culture?

The wars of old and the battle of ideas in the past still exist to this day. The US Civil War was fought on the slavery issues, Blacks were free, but they never did get the promise liberty of being equal.

So, answer to the thread. Race is a taboo and always will be.

Originally posted by infinite
If a black person stands and says "i am proud to be black" in the UK, he is praised as a hero, if i stand up and say "i am proud to be white" i am a racist.

I have often wondered about this point. Firstly, I am not proud to be white. I'm certainly not ashamed, but I don't really know what it means when people say they're proud to be a certain color... I didn't work hard to be white, I didn't put in any effort to reach a goal of being white, I was simply born this way. I could have been born any color. A roll of the dice. To me, saying I'm proud of being white (or black or whatever) is the same as saying I'm proud I have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Perhaps I should make a flag...

I'm proud of my marriage, I'm proud of having quit smoking, I'm proud of my dogs, my home... Things I work hard for make me proud. I am also not proud of being a woman. Again, I was born that way. I do love being a woman, but that's a different thing.

And infinite, there are many examples of your statement above. If "Ivory magizine" existed or NAAWP, White History Month or JET (Jewish Entertainment TV channel) etc... they'd all be branded racist... I don't quite understand it. And by continuing to make special 'sections' in life that are especially focused on black people and skin color, I think it only perpetuates separateness and racism.

Edited: I am proud to be an American (for the time being) because a lot of work went into setting up this country to take care of me and future generations. I feel good for what the forefathers did in hopes of making this a great country. And I continue to work to make it great by writing my congresspeople and voting and staying on top of the political scene. I care. But as far as my skin color, I couldn't care less.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Well, it all comes down to what you define as "racist"...

This is probably why race is such a no-no subject. Its an age old agruement that i dont think will be settled. An example would be music. Some rap artists have been accused of being racist towards white's, but notihng is sad. But you have public opinion, even TV shows on what is called "Neo-Nazi music" and some of the lyrics are less racist than some rap artists. How come one is racist,not both? it doesnt make sense.

Then you have political groups. Black Nationalist groups preaching Black views. Nothing is hardly said, but the White Nationalist groups who preach white views are always on the news, etc. Why is that? does it go back to old Civil War feelings? i dont know and i dont think i ever will.

An American citizens who are against illegal immigration, why are they called racists?

Originally posted by ceci2006
I am just going to ask you a question. Would you consider that fact that other people were suffering in America during WWII if the Holocaust was not mentioned? Probably not. Because the most seminal event of torture and despair was focused upon the genocide occurring in East Europe in the midst of camps as well as the forced takeover of countries through warfare and strife.

When attention is focused solely on the Holocaust, one doesn't think of parallel events also occuring during that time period. Do you not?

That is what I was trying to say. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Ceci. Despite your assumptions that I am 'probably' ignorant of the racial issues in your country.. I am aware of them. Lynchings, segregation, church bombings, trying to go to school, problems in the military etc. The civil rights issues of your country however do not negate your resentful comments about whites and the holocaust.. you have just changed the subject to shirk responsibilty. I'm sorry but these problems pale in comparison to what was happening in Europe so your drawing a comparison and backtracking trying to say you were merely being 'ironic' doesn't make any sense.

But you will still think that this is some evil agenda on an anti-White thread in which the experiences of Black people are tantamount to other races. Because you are unilaterally focused solely on seeing that other people accept "white experiences" you tend to miss other nuances. It's like I said before. You'll see what you want to see.

Er.. but you keep saying anti-white things. If you like.. I don't know.. DIDN'T say anti-white things I might believe you. Don't keep trying to blame me for your racism. AGAIN I haven't misinterprited your statements.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by infinite
An American citizens who are against illegal immigration, why are they called racists?

I am one of those. And I can only assume that the racist moniker is applied because people disagree and want to make the 'other side' seem 'bad'.

It's the same thing with other 'labels'. You may recall the recent thread on the paedophile political party in the Netherlands. Some people started associating these freaks with 'liberals' to make liberals look bad. If you can associate the person you disagree with with an evil moniker, you can feel better about your own stance...

Anti-illegal immigration = racist
liberal = paedophile

That automatically puts the pro-illegal immigration people in the 'compassionate and tolerant' camp and puts the conservatives in the sexual morality camp. And makes the other guys (the bad guys) wrong and you right and good. It's a tactic that's a million years old.

Demonisation of the "other". It's an age old tactic because it works. Always has, and unfortunately, seems like it always will. BH, you've not been the only one tarred with that particular brush concerning illegal immigration. I'm against it, so therefore I, for some unfathomable reason, am a racist, or a bigot.

Yes, I'm white, and I'm male. Therefore it stands to reason that I am somehow automatically a racist? How does this reasoning work? I've yet to hear anysort of reasonable explanation of this so called fact. Other than the infamous: "You just are!!". Not everyone feels this way, of course. It just seems that way sometimes. Just because some whites are indeed bigots, it doesn't stand to reason that all of us are.

I got tired of this a long, looooong time ago.

Originally posted by seagull
Yes, I'm white, and I'm male. Therefore it stands to reason that I am somehow automatically a racist? How does this reasoning work?

There is no reasoning to it. It's racism. You are being stigmatized because of the color of your skin. That's racism.

If he is racist for stating his colour, he is also sexiest for stating his sex? correct? cause if he promotes his colour and sex, surely he is both racist and sexiest?

Oh no. The ones making the accusation will say that they have reasons for believeing this. I just want someone to explain it to me in short, easy to understand, words. Because they seem to know me better than I know myself.

I really don't want to come across as angry. But I am. I am sick and tired of being told I judge people by their skin tone, and the very people who are telling me this are doing the very thing they accuse me of doing. The hypocrisy is self-evident.