The end of the United States as superpower, how far is it away?

Originally posted by Infra_red
The dollar is already worthless. It doesn't represent a commodity as it did when it was first issued. As stated before, the country is trying to dominate the worlds oil which will help to keep it's place in the world theatre. I think that I need to move to Cuba.

Not according to my bank account. Of course the dollar doesn't represent a commodity - there is no commodity worth enough! When it comes to oil you have production, and refinery and those who own the fields/shoals and contracts to such. "Dominate the worlds oil" is a fanciful statement and assumption showing the lack of knowledge about the paticular commodity. Just about every country would like to control the worlds oil, especially Japan, the U.S. takes initiative in protecting our economy as oil is used as a weapon and has been for three decades. OPEC as a Muslim conglomerate will never be for a democratic "free" thinking society, but rather MUST work to unravel this society. It's not about domination - it's about survival, security, and living good from the profits.

Originally posted by Infra_red
I wish I had the money to build a fallout bunker. If civil war doesn't start breaking out in the coming years, I would be suprised. The world is becoming more informed on what the goverments of the world are doing and how they are controlling our lives with their fiat money. As of right now I believe the English pound is the only currency truely backed by gold.

The pound is regulated by the EU and the world bank now, not gold. A fallout shelter would not stop me from coming to get your water and/or food in civil war. Governments have been controlling citizens lives as far as recorded history nothing is different now.

One thing to remember is that the United States is pretty unique in historical terms.

While we are a young country we also have the current lognest standing form of government on the planet right now. While comparions to the US to other decline of empires are easy to make, they miss the many differences between the US. Difference that IMHO makes the US unique.

While rights have eroded since 911, it still is prevelant and accepted.

A diverse population base. This is another key, rather than weaken the pot each group adds thier strengths to the population as a whole. Much like in nature, diverstiy is the key. This is one other reason why US culture is so pervasive. Because it contains elements of so many others, when exposed to it someone in say France will recognize parts of it as thier own and accept it as a whole.

AN integrated global economy. While not fully, if you collapse the US, then alot of the rest of the world goes with it as well.

Originally posted by FredT
While comparions to the US to other decline of empires are easy to make, they miss the many differences between the US. Difference that IMHO makes the US unique.

I agree about the diversity but remember the Roman empire - clay and iron do not mix well. Rome had a Senate and citizens comprised of many nations as well and they fell from within. Keep in mind the economists read history and know the story well and will compete to secure the finances of the future. Don't forget each passing Secretary of Defense goes on to serve in the world bank.

Originally posted by FredT
AN integrated global economy. While not fully, if you collapse the US, then alot of the rest of the world goes with it as well.

We'd be fools to think the financial markets and Warren Buffets of China and Belgium lack the common sense of this. The dollar is world wide there will be no collapse only integration. To think otherwise is to assume every nation has a kamikazzee goal.

I would also like to point out that the empire may not crumble but the citizens will always bear the burden of war and abuse from the "Senates" private financial portfolio.

The united states will continue to dominate the world as the hammer of the world for about another 7-8 years. The US will dominate the UN which will run the world. That's the basic structure that will be in place. That's my view.

Vincere7 please understand that paper currency IS Not worth anything when it all boils down to actual value. You cant eat, drink or power your car with it literally. In terms of what humans need today, it is only a means to an end. The middleman if you will. Gold is only valuable for its rarity and the fact that human vanity makes us want it because it is pretty. I would take a cow and some land over it or paper money anyday. I can actually use those to survive. As I have stated before, the worlds resources are running short and soon enough we will war over them. Paper money at least used to be worth what was printed on it.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

As for the pound, thanx for the education.


When it comes to my fallout shelter though I think you missed the part about me saying I wish I had the money. Who is to say that you would ever find it and if you did........
smith-wesson.com
i'd say take a clip of these and call me in the morning. I already have one.

[edit on 4/14/2006 by Infra_red]

mod edit to shorten link



[edit on 14-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by vincere7
clay and iron do not mix well. Rome had a Senate and citizens comprised of many nations as well and they fell from within.

But not from diversity. The state chose to rework its military so that it couldn't respond to external threats quickly (the limes system), and their economy had falled apart, they couldn't raise the money that the state needed. It wasn't because there were gauls, celts, iberians, and neapolitians speaking latin that the country collapsed.

You cant eat, drink or power your car with it literally

You can't do that with gold or other precious metals either.

posted by Infra_red: “The dollar is worthless. It doesn't represent a commodity as it did when it was first issued.

I guess when we’re talking about the dollar in 2006 we should begin in 1913. The enactment of the Federal Reserve Act establishing the current system. Typically an American solution, the Fed is owned by the member banks, but under the control of the Federally appointed Boards of Governors. The Federal Reserve System has overall regulatory responsibility for the entire country. The Fed is divided into 12 regional banking districts serving the country, each with its own board of governors, but subservient to the System board.

In 1914, Congress authorized the printing and distribution of Federal Reserve notes. Color coded green. We also had silver certificates, blue, gold certificates, yellow and United States notes, red. All of those are now out of print except the green. The yellow (gold) was withdrawn in 1933. Silver (blue) was gradually withdrawn as bills came into the possession of the Fed, replaced with Reserve green paper. The same fate befell the US Notes, red. Now we have green only, pure fiat money. In 1971, Nixon halted the US effort to fix and hold the price of gold. I am unaware of any country that has exchange of any precious metals fixed to its currency.

“As stated before, the country is trying to dominate the world’s oil which will help to keep it's place in the world theater.

Well, our national motive is no secret. We use 20-25% of the world’s oil and our entire economy is based on oil and cheap energy. Although I hate Geo W, VP Cheney and the Oberfuhrer, I underhand they will do anything - unilaterally if need be - to preserve, protect and defend the American economy. That is the American foreign policy paradigm in 2006. Democracy, humanity, civility, are a far distant secondary consideration. See “The Prince,” by Machiavelli.

“In the coming years we will see more of a battle over necessities such as water, food and property. These will become the currency once again.

I think you are right. Man can live without oil but man cannot live without water. A survival show on tv today (4/15/06) said a human has 40 liters of water in his body. Under adverse conditions he can lose 10 liters a day. When you have lost 50% of your water, you are dead. It is imperative you take in as much as you expel or expend. Every day.

“ . . If civil war doesn't start breaking out in the coming years, I would be sunrise. The world is becoming more informed on what the governments of the world are doing and how they are controlling our lives with their fiat money. As of right now I believe the English pound is the only currency true backed by gold. [Edited by Don W]

I have already expressed reservations whether any country’s currency has metal backing. Maybe the UK pound does have metal behind it. I kinda doubt it but that is me. As to the concern expressed over civil war, I have posted elsewhere that would be quashed in America faster than the Chicago DA had the Black Painters killed in 1969. Mission Accomplished! Hmm? Where have I heard that boast made fairly recently?

posted by vincere7: “I disagree with the US being in decline - quite the opposite. We have extended and strengthened relations with India, Pakistan, Turkey, Kazakhstan, the Russian Republic, China, and England. It comes down to energy policy in the 21st century and the U.S. is now as powerful as Saudi Arabia when it comes to oil. US and EU companies invest more in each other's economies than they do in the entire rest of the world. In 2003 US investment in the Netherlands alone was not far behind the total US investment in all of Asia. And total 2-way trade between the US and Europe employs, directly or indirectly, over 12 million people on both sides of the Atlantic." [Edited by Don W]

Well, I’m not so optimistic over all that, V7. I mean, Turkey, Pakistan and Kazakhstan combined are not worth half of California. See CIA World Factbook. OTOH, America is way ahead of any other country in terms of its favorable location on the planet, fertility of the land, reliable rainfall - well, until recently - and moderate climate. We do pump 7 million barrels of oil every day and could add 2 million if we wanted to despoil ANWR. Which I want to save until we really need oil. To avoid international blackmail from Nigeria, Venezuela, Kuwait, and etc. We could cut back on oil and use more coal. And etc. And I don't mean to be jingoistic, but I believe America has the best mix of people anywhere. Every nation on earth is represented here. So, if America is in trouble, then the EU and China are in worse trouble.

[edit on 4/15/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by drex4ever
What your talking about will never happen. If it came down to our economy collasping i think we would start a wwiii just to get it crankin again. Even if it means if we gota kill a lot of people and take new territory i wouldnt really care. We would fight just to keep our luxury's and stomp anybody who gets in our way.

Starting a war, the wwiii just to avoid your economy collapsing? Killing a lot of people and take new territory just to keep your luxury? Over who? Innocent people and human beings like you (even though I see you associated more with animals)? Whose territory are you going to take? Who are you and who gives you the right to decide on other people's life and other people's country?
What a shame... BIG SHAME !!!

Comments like that are making the rest of the world hating americans.

Profanity is the linguistic scratch of inarticulate but in your case is the scratch of the savage mentality.

I apologize to the rest of the members who have been posting in this thread. I didn't want to change topic but I couldn't ignore such a claim as the one I've already quoted.

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by drex4ever
What your talking about will never happen. If it came down to our economy collasping i think we would start a wwiii just to get it crankin again. Even if it means if we gota kill a lot of people and take new territory i wouldnt really care. We would fight just to keep our luxury's and stomp anybody who gets in our way.

Comments like that are making the rest of the world hating americans.

This is as represenative of Americans as the people strapping on Bombs are of Islam.

Originally posted by Mdv2


A wise lesson: you can't be a superpower with nuclear weapons only. What if all your dollars lost their value? Forgot what happened in Germany?


[edit on 14-4-2006 by Mdv2]

What are you talking about, sure you can!

Superpower - "A powerful and influential nation, especially a nuclear power that dominates its allies or client states in an international power bloc."

Nuclear weapons are enough to be a superpower; the United States' economy could crash, go into a massive civil war, and still the government would have the influence over other countries with pre-constructed nuclear weapons - enough to terrorize the rest of the earth into the same position that they would be in.

Lol, though the US has fallen from popular opinion, they haven't fallen from power. It'll be 20-50 years at the least before the US falls on par with Iran or India, and it would still take the entire planet to dislodge them from their seat.

Barring cival war of course, but yea, everyone's pretty much too fat or placated I'm thinking, unless it were to start in the form of a coup...

I personally can't wait to see what happens, and am building up to a position from which I play play some sort of interesting role.

I dunno...

Between you wishful thinkers or flat out deniers and the crooks running this country into the ground, it shouldn't be long now. But, you will probably say things are good when it's obvious that stuff has happened.

You people who say the dollar is still gravy, . Imagine what will happen if foreign countries call in our debts. Funny how under Clinton, a globalist, there was a surplus, but under Bush, another globalist, there's a defecit. I gotta hand it to them, they are quite the cons; they're so good, it ain't even funny.

Even as jobs go overseas, even as foreigners take jobs here in the US, even as US companies get rid of people, even as people work 3 jobs because it's American (Bush actually said this), you people will still run your mouths about how great and mighty the US is. This whole thing makes me sick, but at least I get to laugh at y'all...

Has anyone stopped to consider that the US might decline or collapse because that is what it has been designed to do? That the corporate feudalism they are trying to institute might be part of a plan?

Maybe it's even called, a "Great Work," or "Grand Undertaking?"

For all you know, maybe the US has never been anything but a colony that "belongs" to Europe still....war of independance and all...

It can surely be said that anything that has happened in the past 200 years militarily and politically has been planned to be done so.

The simple fact is, the world Banksters look at everything and everyone as an investment, and now its time for them to come and collect their capital, ie: your livelihood and property that they have allowed you to own, thanks to the industrial age.

Guess I'll be seeing you guys in the labour camps..

Originally posted by shots
The very same could be said for the Euro it too might collapse. What if all your Euros lost their value?

Will The Euro Collapse

Only 12 of the 25 EU member countries use the Euro (UK still has the Pound Sterling)

What is interesting is some of the Oil countries are switching to Euro's, not Dollar's (Iraq switched before the Invasion and Iran is about to)

Iran is planning to open a commodity exchange, under names variously referred to in English as Iran Petroleum Exchange, International Oil Bourse or Iranian Oil Bourse, for the express purpose of trading oil, petrochemicals and gas in various non-dollar currencies, including euros. The opening date was initially planned for March 20, 2006. If successful, this would establish a euro based pricing mechanism for oil trading, or 'oil marker' as it is called by traders.

The acronym IOB has been used as it can be interpreted as either International Oil Bourse or Iranian Oil Bourse, but has no official status.

en.wikipedia.org...

The eurozone consumes more imported petroleum than the United States. This would mean that more euros than US dollars would flow into the OPEC nations, but oil is priced by those nations in US dollars only. There have been frequent discussions at OPEC about pricing oil in euros, which would have various effects, among them, requiring nations to hold stores of euros to buy oil, rather than the US dollars that they hold now. Venezuela under Hugo Chávez has been a vocal proponent of this scheme, despite selling most of its own oil to the United States. Another proponent was Saddam Hussein of Iraq, which holds the world's second largest oil reserves. Since 2000 Iraq had used the euro as oil export currency. In 2002, Iraq changed its US dollars into euro, a few months prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. If implemented by the OPEC, the changeover to the euro would be a transfer of a 'float' that presently subsidises the United States to subsidise the European Union instead.

en.wikipedia.org...

There was an interesting program, on British TV about a few months ago and it was about American and Oil. The show presented a theory that the American economy was dependent on Oil and Oil rich countries, especially in the middle east, were and are planning to switch trading from Dollars into Euro's.

Just some interesting facts, i thought i would share

:edit:

Petroeuro

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 16-4-2006 by infinite]

Originally posted by Nygdan

You cant eat, drink or power your car with it literally

You can't do that with gold or other precious metals either.

I think he's aware of that, from the next few lines of his post...

Gold is only valuable for its rarity and the fact that human vanity makes us want it because it is pretty. I would take a cow and some land over it or paper money anyday. I can actually use those to survive.

...and I totally agree with that sentiment. Give me land over hard currency or precious metals any day. But then, if you give me currency or precious metals of a total value higher than the land, I'd take the cash and buy land and equipment

Set myself up an algae biodiesel farm and start capitalizing on the upcoming rise in fuel costs. Then buy more land and start accepting only energy credits. Yeah, I think that's a better system than fiat or gold-backed currencies.

"How much is this bottle of Coca-Cola?"
"That would be 25 joules please."
"How much is that in calories?"

~~

the USA is in a very slow transition right now (but it's accellerating...)

the 'superpower' label is being changed from a sole owner of that title
to a multinational organization...'the coalition of the willing' is the early stage
of this (NWO) Horizontal Regime.

It will become more common & accepted that the leaderships will hold
multi-national citizenship within the coalition nations,
and in time the boundaries/borders/laws & rights of these nation states
will fall away as a new union(NWO) emerges as the redefined 'superpower'

...lets say for example; USA, UK, Australia, Israel, and several other english speaking countries, adopted a consensus 'borders-language-culture' humanitarian government...we share a basic ideology right now,

whats to stop this new superpower coalition-state from imposing their
economic & military & resource distribution models on the rest of the
Asian, Islamic, African, spheres of influence ???

America, as history reflects it, and the requirements of a global master plan
modify its present condition...can no longer be a Verticle Enterprise, seperated by seas, distance or space. The singular superpower nation-state is a commodity that has met its extinction phase.

the americans have invented trillions of dollas just put it on wall street, in michael moor's stupid white men, he mentions somethin about this.. read it folks..
America has to much arms to go broke,
it would take, russia, china n Europe and stupidity to beat the americans, it will never happen. they wont break, America will only break when the people realise that there leader is lying to them and fooling them..
....in a true democracy how can the be more than one party?...'
i dunno man, its a big bad world out there, we have to look out for one another, as nixon sed, the next war we have wont be between ourselves..
somethin like that anyway..

This is only my opinion but i believe in the saying "all great things must come to an end" nobody remains in power forever and if or when our time comes i hate to she how ar down we fall especially if all the other countries decide that they want a bid on the title superpower.

I believe America is Mystery Babylon, spoken of in Revelation. Who got the Internet up and running and satellite television perfected so they could pump porn all over the world? Coming to a cell phone near you, yep, more porn.


Rev. 18-3 and the merchant's of the Earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacie's.


I believe her end will be quick. Rev 18-8 Therefore, shall her plague's come in one day......

A surprise nuclear decapitation strike by Osama on New York/ Washington? An EMP attack by a rogue state/ bioogical weapon's. Don't know, pick your poison. I just think that what you reap is what you sow. We've sown 43 million of our unborn children into the dumpster. Homosexuality is on the rise. Pornography is rampant.

Some will NEVER see the connection (not in this life anyway), but to me it's crystal clear.

Help me, Ear

posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

I believe America is Mystery Babylon, spoken of in Revelation. Who perfected the Internet and satellite television so they could pump porn all over the world? Coming to cell phones, more porn. I believe her end will be quick . . “
[Edited by Don W]

Look, Ear, I thought it was agreed amongst even Protestants that it was Imperial Rome in the last yeas of the First Century AD or the first years of the Second Century AD that the writer of Revelations referred to? So how could other readers of Revelations over the years, make reference to Attila the Hun, Henry VIII or Tsar Ivan or others as ‘Mystery Babylon,’ or would you say Revelations is purely apocryphal?

A nuclear strike by Osama on NY/ W-DC? An EMP attack by a rogue state? Biological weapons. I think you reap what you sow. We've sown 43 million of our unborn children into the dumpster. Homosexuality is on the rise. Pornography is rampant. Some will NEVER see the connection (not in this life anyway), but to me it's crystal clear.

Ear, I’m told America is the most Christian nation in the industrialized world. What do you think is God’s message to make America the most religious on the one hand, then scare you into thinking Armageddon is at hand? And it may well be fought right here in the Lower 48? Surely laying waste in its wake.

You’ve confused me, Ear.

And one more thing, Ear. The Christian Children’s Fund says around the world, 27,000 children die every day due to malnourishment - starving to death - which comes to 295,000,000 dead children since Roe. It is said starving to death is one of the more painful ways to die, but I have not asked Saddam about that. What, if anything, Ear, should we religious Americans do about those children? Besides giving them a Red Skelton "God Bless" and hail thee well, a mass burial and the Most Holy Last Rites?


[edit on 5/24/2006 by donwhite]