Remember when you thought Bush was going to do something about the BORDER after 911? This special fake number ( 11 million illegals ) of supposed hard working farmers and hotel maids never got all of this attention or pity when I was a kid. Why? Because they were Anglo Saxons who did'nt need everybody to cry them a river. And they did'nt get paid a fortune either. If you check out the Sir Names of most farm owners in California you might freak out because most of them are Spanish. Back to this 11 million group of lawbreakers who snuck in to America, it's nice to see on TV how racist and anti America they truly are. They now suggest they are taking back their land ( that Santa Anna stole from the Indians ). That's BS. They are here in this great country because their country has been run through the mill and a peso is is the validation of all of this crap. What are they taking back? Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Sears, Ford etc,.? Are they taking back ideas they never created yet work there anyway? If Americans are so RACIST, how come they hire Mexicans for anything? Please save the bit about how they don't get as much. They get more tha Mexico would ever give them. They never want to look all too long over there shoulder at a country they hold no loyalty too. They proved this by waving more Mexican flags in America than has ever been flown in Mexico. The bottom line is FACT. Folklore aside, the are working all over the place in my toem. My damn Doctor is Hispanic! So enough with this BS about how they are picking lettuce for GRINGOS and only gringos. I see them at the same store buying their lettuce too. Then off the go in a LEXUS to some Anti-American rally. If 1ii million people can do whatever they wish and Bush could care less, wait till 300,000,000 million Americans start letting Bush know what we may or may no longer do. Like pay taxes. Seems Bush respects numbers of people more than Americans.

Wow! That was amazing. I was actually transported in time back to the sixties where I heard the same retoric about blacks.

FYI this problem didn't happen over night. The government has turned their heads as illegals sneak across the border for years. Now all of a sudden, they want to do something about it. Have you ever heard the term "red herring?" Just what is it that the government is trying to take our attention from? Misdirection is a common tactit used by the government. Hint: They always choose an emotionally charged subject to deflect our attention from what is really important.

You mean to tell me you hav'nt heard what since the 60's? Mexicans screaming for GRINGOS to get out of their country ( America ) in America? Good try buddy. I've been called a GRINGO my whole life so save your little civil rights BS march for some sucker who knows nothing about the 60's. Mexicans are NOT peasants or little elves you should feel sorry for because they " snuck in to America ". By the way let's talk about the 60's and those massive LBJ structures that were built for black people to live in. You were back there in the 60's so I'm sure YOU never lived there. I was'nt there during the nutty experiments with blacks and housing while you probably listened to Jefferson Airplane, but I'm here now, and all I see is reverse racism on every front in every color by everybody. Tell you what, move to Mexico for a year and give us a call if you are still around. Till then, see you in 2006.

Those who consider a race of people " victims " are the truest form of RACISTS.

I mostly agree with you, CellarDweller (however, please read my signature.)

A quick story about my feelings on these illegal aliens, if I may:

When I was a kid I used to cut lawns. Made lousy money; averaged about $3 an hour when I was 14 in 1981. But it was enough for me to buy some of the things my parents couldn't afford.

The main competition on my block was a guy named Jim, who was the same age as me. He had TWO lawn mowers AND an edger! He had another neighborhood kid that helped him out and he did 2 lawns at a time and did pretty well for himself. He did so well that by the time he was 21 in 1988 he had 6 guys working for him and 2 trucks... and he was not just cutting lawns... he was doing landscaping and all kinds of lawn stuff. By this time he had MANY contracts and his workers did pretty well; $15 an hour. $15 an hour in 1988 was pretty good cash. Jim was pulling down $75,000 a year for himself. He probably could have made more, but he did everything legit... Workman's Compensation Insurance for his workers included. Not bad for a small business owner.

Fast forward to 2006. Jim now makes upwards of $350,000 a year doing landscaping. And why is he doing so well? Because he has illegal aliens working for him. No Workman's Compensation Insurance costs. $7 an hour to his workers. That's less than 1/2 what he was paying his workers almost 20 years ago. No bad when the lawn-cutting rate has gone up from $5 a pop to $35 a pop. A 700% increase in income and a 50% reduction in payments out (just in salary).

Why can't people (like Jim, the farmers, the construction companies, and everyone else using illegal aliens as workers) be happy with making $75,000 a year instead of breaking the law and making $350,000 a year? Then they could pay their workers a fair wage so they will have no problem finding American workers to do the same jobs.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
You mean to tell me you hav'nt heard what since the 60's? Mexicans screaming for GRINGOS to get out of their country ( America ) in America? Good try buddy.

Actually, I was referring to your racist rhetoric. I remember how terrified the white man was over the blacks gaining any kid of power. They were so afraid that the blacks were going to take over the country. Yet, here we are, forty years later. Now the big boogie man is the illegal alien threat.
Perhaps you failed to read the rest of my post. This is not a new problem!

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
I've been called a GRINGO my whole life so save your little civil rights BS march for some sucker who knows nothing about the 60's. Mexicans are NOT peasants or little elves you should feel sorry for because they " snuck in to America ". By the way let's talk about the 60's and those massive LBJ structures that were built for black people to live in. You were back there in the 60's so I'm sure YOU never lived there. I was'nt there during the nutty experiments with blacks and housing while you probably listened to Jefferson Airplane, but I'm here now, and all I see is reverse racism on every front in every color by everybody. Tell you what, move to Mexico for a year and give us a call if you are still around. Till then, see you in 2006.

Yes, I was alive during the sixties and saw the housing built for low-income families. I saw how the government attempted to keep the blacks enslaved to the system by giving free handouts instead of rewarding people for a job well done. I have lived all over this country and have been called quite a few things including gringo. Moreover, FYI, I have lived in low–income housing even though I am predominantly white.

rac•ism P Pronunciation Key (r s z m)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There is no such thing as reverse racism. That would imply a lack of racism. Racism is racism whether it is directed at a minority or majority.

Originally posted by darkelf
Misdirection is a common tactit used by the government. Hint: They always choose an emotionally charged subject to deflect our attention from what is really important.

If this is not an emotionally charged subject, I don’t know what is. Why now, after all this time of ignoring the problem, does the government finally want to deal with this? Try looking at what else is going on in the world to see what your attention is being misdirected from.

I believe that the illegal alien problem is a valid one. There are no easy fixes now. It is too late to start massive door-to-door searches for illegals to send back over the border. I do not feel sorry for anyone, least of all the illegal aliens who sneak across the border to better their own economic situation. However, I do understand why they are here and their desire to reclaim a land that they have been told was stolen from them. You see, I am also part Cherokee.

And FYI, I am not your buddy.

You just don't get it do you? What am I supposed to call Mexicans who snuck over the border from Mexico? Germans? I take you'd like to settle for that one size fits all word " Hispanics " ? Now their is a racist world which actually is a " one size fits all " kind of deal. All this aside, I hope they soon move to your neck of the world in droves and wreak havoc such as they have in my town. Almost every single house is up for sale and ALL GRINGOS are bailing. These are facts that not even you can refute. Engine blocks on the lawn or whole cars parked right up to the front door! Banger music thumping it's thump and lets not forget the alway's faithful Acordian song with the TUBA one hit wonder. So I propose that the thousands of people such as YOU pay taxes for them and those who don't want too don't have too. It's simple and they could put it on any taxform with 2 boxes : Yes or no. Racism my butt, this is America buddy, not some clown around town in which we bow to the demands of those who hold no respect for our country. I think you should pay for all programs and problems I don't feel like paying for. Save your Nazi stuff whatever else in next stuff for somebody who is what PROFILED ME AS.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
You just don't get it do you? What am I supposed to call Mexicans who snuck over the border from Mexico? Germans? I take you'd like to settle for that one size fits all word " Hispanics " ? Now their is a racist world which actually is a " one size fits all " kind of deal.

Cellerdweller, No. You call them what they are. They are illegal aliens, most of which are of Mexican nationality. Hispanic covers anyone of Spanish descent. There are many Hispanics here in the US. Some are here legally and some aren’t. The word “Hispanic” is no more racist then the words black or white when referring to a race of people.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
All this aside, I hope they soon move to your neck of the world in droves and wreak havoc such as they have in my town. Almost every single house is up for sale and ALL GRINGOS are bailing.

In case you haven’t noticed, beneath my avatar, my location is Corpus Christi. That would be in Texas. Besides, I lived through the OMG the blacks are moving into our neighborhood years ago and survived that one with no problem.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
These are facts that not even you can refute. Engine blocks on the lawn or whole cars parked right up to the front door! Banger music thumping it's thump and lets not forget the alway's faithful Acordian song with the TUBA one hit wonder.

When you make a statement that includes an entire race of people THAT is a racist remark. I see these things happening in homes of American citizens. Some are of Hispanic origin and some are not. The music may not be your taste, but as long as it doesn’t disturb my sleep, I say live and let live. If it gets to loud, I just wander down the road and politely ask them to turn it down. I am fortunate that there are no gangs in my neighborhood. You do not seem to be as fortunate.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
So I propose that the thousands of people such as YOU pay taxes for them and those who don't want too don't have too. It's simple and they could put it on any taxform with 2 boxes : Yes or no.

I already pay taxes, and just like you, I have no control over how the government chooses to use that money. I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m in favor of using our tax dollars to pay for programs for illegal aliens. I never stated my position. I only said it was not an easy fix.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
Racism my butt, this is America buddy, not some clown around town in which we bow to the demands of those who hold no respect for our country. I think you should pay for all programs and problems I don't feel like paying for. Save your Nazi stuff whatever else in next stuff for somebody who is what PROFILED ME AS.

1. I am not your Buddy.
2. Racism is has been defined in my last post. You continue to make blanket derogatory statements about an entire group of people, and that IS racism.
3. Freedom of speech is a right granted to American citizens. It is why we allow the skinheads and the KKK to have marches. It is also why we allow flag burning.
4. Having compassion for those who are not as well off as I am does not make me a Nazi.
5. Take off your emotional blinders and look at this problem from a logical point of view. Yes, we have a problem with illegals in this country. This is not a new problem. The government has turned a blind eye to it for many years. So why do they care now?

The government is playing on the emotions of the American public with their sudden desire to do something about the illegal alien situation. How can you tell a Hispanic-American citizen from a legal or illegal alien? Hint: The government doesn’t want you to. They want you to react emotionally each time you see anyone of Hispanic origin. That’s a lot of emotional reaction where I live. They want you to fear for your community and maybe even for your life. I lived through this in the sixties when the blacks were the government’s boogie man.

So my original question is, not what do we do about the illegal alien issue. My question is why, after all of this time ignoring the issue, does the government want us to focus on illegal immigration?

Our government has a history of getting American citizens stirred up emotionally over certain issues whenever they want to deflect our attention from more important issues. What is going on right now that they don’t want us to focus on?

BYW, I never called You a racist. I only pointed out certain racist remarks that you made. I don't call other people names.

if the senator from nevada, Harry Reid would stop blocking the bill the U.S. would be doing something to stop immigration right now.

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
You just don't get it do you? What am I supposed to call Mexicans who snuck over the border from Mexico? Germans? I take you'd like to settle for that one size fits all word " Hispanics " ? Now their is a racist world which actually is a " one size fits all " kind of deal.

Cellerdweller, No. You call them what they are. They are illegal aliens, most of which are of Mexican nationality. Hispanic covers anyone of Spanish descent. There are many Hispanics here in the US. Some are here legally and some aren’t. The word “Hispanic” is no more racist then the words black or white when referring to a race of people.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
All this aside, I hope they soon move to your neck of the world in droves and wreak havoc such as they have in my town. Almost every single house is up for sale and ALL GRINGOS are bailing.

In case you haven’t noticed, beneath my avatar, my location is Corpus Christi. That would be in Texas. Besides, I lived through the OMG the blacks are moving into our neighborhood years ago and survived that one with no problem.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
These are facts that not even you can refute. Engine blocks on the lawn or whole cars parked right up to the front door! Banger music thumping it's thump and lets not forget the alway's faithful Acordian song with the TUBA one hit wonder.

When you make a statement that includes an entire race of people THAT is a racist remark. I see these things happening in homes of American citizens. Some are of Hispanic origin and some are not. The music may not be your taste, but as long as it doesn’t disturb my sleep, I say live and let live. If it gets to loud, I just wander down the road and politely ask them to turn it down. I am fortunate that there are no gangs in my neighborhood. You do not seem to be as fortunate.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
So I propose that the thousands of people such as YOU pay taxes for them and those who don't want too don't have too. It's simple and they could put it on any taxform with 2 boxes : Yes or no.

I already pay taxes, and just like you, I have no control over how the government chooses to use that money. I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m in favor of using our tax dollars to pay for programs for illegal aliens. I never stated my position. I only said it was not an easy fix.

Originally posted by Cellerdweller
Racism my butt, this is America buddy, not some clown around town in which we bow to the demands of those who hold no respect for our country. I think you should pay for all programs and problems I don't feel like paying for. Save your Nazi stuff whatever else in next stuff for somebody who is what PROFILED ME AS.

1. I am not your Buddy.
2. Racism is has been defined in my last post. You continue to make blanket derogatory statements about an entire group of people, and that IS racism.
3. Freedom of speech is a right granted to American citizens. It is why we allow the skinheads and the KKK to have marches. It is also why we allow flag burning.
4. Having compassion for those who are not as well off as I am does not make me a Nazi.
5. Take off your emotional blinders and look at this problem from a logical point of view. Yes, we have a problem with illegals in this country. This is not a new problem. The government has turned a blind eye to it for many years. So why do they care now?

The government is playing on the emotions of the American public with their sudden desire to do something about the illegal alien situation. How can you tell a Hispanic-American citizen from a legal or illegal alien? Hint: The government doesn’t want you to. They want you to react emotionally each time you see anyone of Hispanic origin. That’s a lot of emotional reaction where I live. They want you to fear for your community and maybe even for your life. I lived through this in the sixties when the blacks were the government’s boogie man.

So my original question is, not what do we do about the illegal alien issue. My question is why, after all of this time ignoring the issue, does the government want us to focus on illegal immigration?

Our government has a history of getting American citizens stirred up emotionally over certain issues whenever they want to deflect our attention from more important issues. What is going on right now that they don’t want us to focus on?

BYW, I never called You a racist. I only pointed out certain racist remarks that you made. I don't call other people names.

Let me make it very clear to you fella, you are not my buddy either and I think it would be best if braggers such as yourself paid the extra income taxes for those you weep about. I don't know where you get your paranoid ideas, but half of Mexico is moving in and waving Mexican flags. What if they were Nazi flags? Would you still be all excited to defend them too? Your views are shallow and the key word is what you and only you consider a racist. I think we all know who you are talking about and you have no meaning in this supposed great debate. 90% of American born citizens are sick of this crap. It's in every poll every night. 300,000,000 vs you 11 million ilegals. I say you and your chums should pay extra-income taxes for all of those county hospitals that are going broke and so on. It is YOU who is the PATRONIZER as well as race baiter. You feel it is your duty to call Anglo Saxons ( please say our name right while you are at it buddy boy ) racist and have no clues otherwise on any topic. All I'm calling for is selective taxes so people such as yourself can fork over the jack for all of you victim pals. By the way, where did they come from? A two-bit crappy country that can'nt even pay a nickel an hour. Why do you write up a big thread on all of the corruption going on in Mexico instead of attacking the one society that has created jobs and social programs for those who have snuck in eh? I hpe they all ride on your back until it's broken. I'll be with my German pals far far away form you and your racial hunting parties.

I think this could be solved by making them refugees. You declare them refugees, put them all in refugee camps, problem solved. Now that they are all in one spot all the stores, factories, lawn mowing jobs, are open. This cuts unemployment to 0 as people scramble to get jobs that just opened. The extra income tax goes towards the refugee camps where they are treated just as well as they would in Mexico.(pretty poorly from what I have heard) Then give them an option, learn english and become a citizen and stop waving the Mexican flag in America or be deported to Mexico.

How many would be willing to learn english, stop waving the Mexican flag, and become tax paying Americans instead of going back to Mexico?

Also I love how they say "You stole our lands." No America didn't. Texas broke away from Mexico and won its independence. Then it joined America, which made Mexico mad. Mexico attacks, we fight back, we won, we paid MILLIONS(In 1800's that is a lot of money) for the land. We bought the land, no stealing involved, after we won the war.

Carlos Mencia made a good point though on his show. How many White Americans are out marching waving the German, or French, or whatever flag calling for the land stolen by the rebels back? Never hear the Dutch calling for Pennsylvania back do you? No, Americans are willing to say Europe sucks, thats why our ancestors left it, go America. But Mexicans? They march down streets waving the Mexican flag calling for death of anyone not a Mexican. What the world is going on? Didn't they cross the border illegally to get away from the crap hole called Mexico?

[edit on 18-4-2006 by StarkMan]

originally posted by darkelf
The government is playing on the emotions of the American public with their sudden desire to do something about the illegal alien situation. How can you tell a Hispanic-American citizen from a legal or illegal alien? Hint: The government doesn’t want you to. They want you to react emotionally each time you see anyone of Hispanic origin. That’s a lot of emotional reaction where I live. They want you to fear for your community and maybe even for your life. I lived through this in the sixties when the blacks were the government’s boogie man.

So my original question is, not what do we do about the illegal alien issue. My question is why, after all of this time ignoring the issue, does the government want us to focus on illegal immigration?

I have to disagree with you here. You're partially right about the gov't wanting us to react emotionally. But that's because there is an election coming up, imo.

Where I disagree is that we needed the gov't to bring it to our attention. People have been frustrated and complaining about this issue for years. The gov't has ignored us, and continues to do so - none of the proposals they have put forth are comprehensive and sensible. They either pander to the illegals or to the businesses that employ them. They only pretend to care now because of the elections. Watch the rhetoric dry up after November, if you don't believe me.