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Pyramids at Giza were there BEFORE the Egyptians got there.

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posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 03:53 PM
1b. My proposed Workspace Expansion solutions.

The architects also had to solve the following serious problem of an "overcrowded and too small workspace" for all lever jack-up procedures.

page 12/16 : I agree with both Prevos and Hodges in their use of levers for vertical transport; however I find it hard to visualize a 0.73 meters high by 1.17 meters wide by 1.17 meters long element being balanced on a .575 meter step.
As I said, there is not a lot of space on the pyramid step for the “jacked-up” stone, let alone four men lifting with four levers.

Eventually construction of the higher part of the core (71 remaining levels), the part above the 2/3 max height reachable by a Great Pyramid lime -and other harder- stone transportation ramp (max. 209 - 71 = 138 levels high; max. climbing angle 10°), could have been solved by the architects, by leaving out temporarily, one outer row of blocks on each opposite pyramid side, per each of the remaining 71 courses, to create on each level a double as wide workspace for the leverers.

To facilitate the endless lines of leverers, climbing up slowly but irresistible the last 71 pyramid levels while jacking-up these 2.6 ton blocks on the east and west slopes of the remaining 71 levels, then placing those blocks on the highest build floor level, and then their return back down the slopes to the 138th floor to pick up their next block, delivered from the quarry, via the still functioning ramp.

Then, after the slightly lower temporary apex of this shorter top part of the pyramid was reached, the workmen would work their way back down again on both west and east slopes, to fill in these missing rows of blocks at each of the 70 levels, and thus they could still use, all the way down, these still existing wider workspaces under them, to transport the missing blocks up to their slowly descending re-filling workspaces, untill they reached the level of the King's Chamber again, where the ramp was still utilized to deliver their blocks for the 71 top layers, since up to that 138 steps level, this jack-up solution hadn't been needed yet. Only sleds sliding on oiled slates, which went uphill on the ramps, delivered blocks to the latest floor level, and returned. No jacking up needed. Slates are also stones, but roughly and fast hacked in the form of thin plates, which were spread out and oiled on the uphill ramp road. The downhill ramproad running perpendicular to the uphill one, got every day refreshed with wet clay from the river Nile, since that road only had to carry empty sleds, oxen and men downhill.

NOTE : The problem didn't arise as long as for example, 2 possibly created ramps, one southeast uphill and one southwest downhill, were in full use and the King's Chamber level was still not reached.
The problem however inevitably started when the course level of the King's Chamber was indeed reached, about 2/3 the pyramid's slope up, where the constant heightening and extending of the big ramp was halted. The ramp reached its max. and steepest possible uphill angle of 10° at that 138th level.

The architect opted probably for a SINGLE but wider ramp with a double road on top, and used one downhill road solely for empty sledges returning to the limestone quarry.The other uphill one would be economically used for men and oxen, pulling their stone-loaded hardwood sleds.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 03:58 PM
1c. The Pyramid's 1/3 Top : "Minus 1 row"- Jack up / Lever procedure Problem.

The problem I realized arising, when I imagined this "minus 1 row" jack-up procedure, is that of a quickly changing east- and westside slope angle, decreasing with every extended workspace step, at every higher level reached.
And the slope would become concave when the blocks dimensions and weight would decrease by every higher level reached.

I had to start playing around with a few boxes of sugar cubes (the square ones), they were cheap enough and had nearly the right dimensions.
The mini (sugar) blocks must approach as good as can be, these dimensions: H=7.3 x W=11.7 x L=11.7 millimeters.
Interesting problem to try to solve.

Well, after playing around with a lot of sugar cubes, the conclusion is, that this method of maintaining the same (now wider) space on every next pyramid step, was a pretty idea, but complex to solve in a logical and economically acceptable manner. The temporary apex would be reached a lot earlier than I imagined at first.

Just to tease the readers, WHY? ( Hint: 1-2-3-4-etc., do try to find it out yourself without studying the later drawing).
I kept the cubes for further research and occasional coffee sweetening.

Another question for the reader to contemplate on :
Which strange effect of laying increasingly smaller blocks the higher you build can be observed?
Does the slope of the four sides become concave, so their curvature inwards bowing, simplification : ) (
Or does it become convex, their curvature outwards bowing, simplification : ( )

[edit on 20/8/06 by LaBTop]

[edit on 20/8/06 by LaBTop]

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 04:11 PM
1d. The real "Crappy workspace problem" solution.

We first have to solve the problem of that really crappy workspace on the surface of a course step of just 57.5 centimeter wide/'deep', if we want to stay focussed on mr Prevos ( and mr Marchimedes) lever theories.

Imagine two pair of ancient pyramid workers, standing on both sides of a 2.6 ton heavy limestone block, each pair standing sideways on the step and trying to stand firm and not to fall down or get pushed off by their mate.
Each needed about 30 cm space for both his feet when facing the to be jacked-up limestone block, so about 60 cm is really minimally needed for two workers, standing shoulder to shoulder, and both needed additional space to be able to operate their levers with ease.
They also had to find out how to place their 73x117x117 centimeter limestone block on the 57.7 cm wide step.

I started to begin to doubt it was possible at all, but then a few new ideas surfaced my mind :

1. Imagine 2 x 2 workers who are moving one block somewhere in the middle of the east side slope of the Great Pyramid.
The first worker of a pair, standing nearest to the already laid row of blocks, can hold one foot on the next higher step, while his mate can put one foot on the lower step, while jacking up their new block. That saves about 30 cm space :
Problem of workers pushing eachother down the steps, and initiating a limestone block avalange, SOLVED.

2. An even better solution : the architects splitted the workforce of their block movers in two groups, shorter and longer persons, and made 2 different sizes of levers, and gave the long ones to their shortests block movers, so these 'shorties' needed to hang a lot less powerfull on the handles of their levers as their fellow block movers who were all longer and heavier and could handle their shorter levers with a lot more power because they were longer, heavier, and thus stronger.

The longer size levers with about a 50 cm longer tapered handle, were used by these 'shorties', who stood thus further from the block, so they all could stand comfortably behind their (longer and heavier) fellow workers on the same 57.5 cm wide step.
Problem of crappy workspace much better SOLVED.

Workers feet were spreaded out and levers held on their right side, hanging with their right side on their lever, standing on a pyramid course ridge, like this simplified view from above :

Remember, the effective lower arm of the levers, to lift a load, extended only about 11 cm under a slight angle from the handle. That way 4 men were able to lift a block about 10 cm up, during each jack-up.
Eight times they had to repeat this sequence, every time sliding new hardwooden 10 cm high planks under the block, to eventually reach the next terrace surface, where they could start the pushing and pulling fase.

One note from me:
The ends of these hardwood levers will have worn down reasonably fast, so their must have been a laborous industry of hardwood lever making somewhere far away in Lower Egypt, and these activities must have been described I suppose, somewhere in the hieroglyphs of their temples, worker villages, and especially in the bookkeepers records and the river Nile shipping records.
One remedy could have been the placement of copper or bronze caps on top of the levers.

We however are still left with at least a block which is 1/3 overhanging the 57.5 cm deep horizontal jack-up space on a step, when we let it rest on its 73 x 117 cm side, which means that its other, 117 x 117 cm side is standing upright, and the mean gravity point of that block is thus much higher situated than when the block would rest on one of the 117 x 117 sides. This position is more prone to topple over. Which is highly dangerous, and would not have been opted by a sane architect.
Thus, we must conclude that there was a mechanism in place which aided jacking up of a constant line of blocks on every ridge from bottom to top (of the last laid rows of blocks), which provided enough and safe jack up working space on all the ridges at the east and west sides.

What about my idea nr. 3 :

3. During jacking up along the 2 sides, every gang of 4 workers used 2 flat planks of 75 x 30 x10 cm long hardwood, to let the next 7 jack-up layers rest on at both sides of the block.
That would be the fastest, lightest and easiest manner of safely and quickly jacking up, all the way up.
Because these 2 planks would also be the first bottom layer of each side of a jack up heap. And they would only hang 1/3 of their length, over the front of a step. That meant that 2/3 was resting firmly on the step surface, and made it as good as impossible that a block would topple back down.
To make the process even safer, I would cut those 2 planks in such a way, that the front end, the one resting against the last row of blocks, was thinner, thus lower (8 cm high) than the back, 1/3 over the step hanging end (12 cm high). That would reverse the center of gravity of the blocks a fraction to the front side of the block, thus forcing the block to rest against the next step of blocks. It is then impossible that the jacked up block would topple back.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 04:24 PM
2. The - Straight Ramp / Stair Ramp + Levers - combination.

Use a straight ramp to level 138, then start building a pyramid-blocks-based extending stair ramp up ONE side of the pyramid, beginning at the end of the straight ramp, using that as the base for your stair ramp. Both ramps would be situated on the south slope of the Great Pyramid, since the quarry was discovered 500 yards (1 yard = ± 91 cm) south of the Great Pyramid.
This stair ramp would be switching left-right direction step by step, with a spacing of a few meters, thus keeping the width of the stair at a minimum, all the remainding height to the top.
Workspace on the stair ramp would be by far sufficient, since the full 117 cm side of every block in the stair could be utilized by the gangs of jack-upping leverers.

Quite an interesting hypotheses, if I may say so.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 04:25 PM
3. The - Pyramid Center Stair Ramp+ rising Delivery Tunnel+Levers - combination.

4. The - Pyramid Center Gap+Stair Ramp+Levers - combination.

5. The - Floating Blocks in Pyramid Center SHAFT+Delivery Tunnel - combination.

A bit outlandish idea, just thrown on the pile for it's 'crazy construction aid' and thoughts-training potential.

Works only when two identical shaped, watertight pyramid center shafts (use tar from tar pits to fill up the cracks and crevices) having specific inner minimum dimensions (LxW), so a quite big balsa, cork or papyrus-reet raft, which can hold a ± 2.6 to 3 ton weighting limestone block measuring ± 73x117x117 cm , fitted easily in each shaft.
To achieve this, maximum 3 m3 water have to be displaced by a watertight vessel, f.ex. an inflated well-dressed hide from an elephant or camel. Another idea could be to use big pottery for this.

Usage of shafts was switched from "lifting block" use to "bringing down float" use when only 1 block was lifted and delivered to the higher up, last level constructed. At the end of construction, the time needed for float-lifting blocks increased substantially, that's why this method was not chosen, if thought about, since it was uneconomical qua waiting time for lifting and filling shafts.
Balsa and cork floating on water can lift quite some weight, but if such a kind of system was used, they probably will have used a bunch of tied-together airtight goat or cow skins, which were tangled together in a deep box made of wooden planks under a square wooden floating platform, so a smaller platform could still lift 3 ton. It could not topple in the shaft, the box would guide it, and also protect the sensitive blown up skins.
Locked up air has much better buoyancy potential than any wood. So, a quite high, "deep sticking" skin(ny)-raft would need much less space (LxW), thus the shaft could be much smaller constructed (still a lot wider/longer as the limestone blocks it has to lift).

Lots of logical and economical problems arise with such an idea, that's why it is not worked out further by me, but who knows, it could later be combined with another then submerging idea to form the ultimate end idea about actual pyramid construction.

This system can only work following the "communicating vessels" principal, no hydraulic version will have been invented, since the materials needed for hydraulics were not at hand in ancient Egypt. What a petty.
Many workers had to fysically bring the water up to each highest level to fill up an empty shaft.
They had no pumps. Only "wheels of Archimedes" which can only "screw up" water a short distance, the max.displacement distance depends on the size of the water-screw. Let's assume no more than 3 meter, and then you need quite some floor space per screw.
In effect, many workers had to transport an awfull weight in form of water up for transporting 1 block, much more than the actual weight of 1 block. And water is not an abundant commodity on the Plateau of Giza, nowadays. Don't know about 4000 years back however.
Also, if shaft 1 is full, and get emptied fast in the empty shaft 2, the water will end up halfway high in both shafts, if there is no additional water tank holding the capacity of 1 shaft extra, which can be emptied in shaft 1 fast enough also, until both shafts are filled to the top, and the transportation raft is then afloat on top of shaft 2 and the block can be off-loaded from the raft.

So the only economically sound solution to let this method ever work is a STATIONARY form of very fast displacement of the whole capacity of one shaft into the other empty one with the raft+block laying waiting on its floor, ready to be water-lifted halfway up to the highest level by the inflow of all the water from the other shaft. Then the extra tank is emptied also, lifting the raft up the other halfway to the top of both shafts. Thus, a system of watertight locks (sliding stones in small tunnels, greased by animal fat or wax perhaps) must be in place at the bottom of the shafts in the connection-tunnel between them, and a big extra water "tank" must be situated on the highest construction level, and be moved up one level every time a level is filled with blocks.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 04:49 PM
In this picture it is quite clear that even when the river Nile was much nearer the construction site, water still had to be "Archimedes wheeled" up a considerable amount of meters. I assume, after reading some essays, that it was about 50 meter up from river level to reach the groundfloor level of the Great Pyramid.

The plateau itself rises about 40 meters above the ground level at the entrance. ...
This is a rendered model of the Giza plateau seen from the northeast.
From left to right we can see the pyramid of Menkaure, the pyramid of Khafre and the Great Pyramid of Khufu or Cheops. Leading down from the pyramids are the causeways that run towards the vally temples. The small pyramids in front of the Khufu pyramid and behind the pyramid of Menkaure are the so called Queens pyramids.

The quarry that was probably used to yield a lot of the material used for pyramid construction lies southeast of the Third Pyramid, due south of the First Pyramid, and southwest of the Sphinx. .....
In then ancient days the Nile used to run very close to the east side of the plateau. According to Mark Lehner (1997) there was a harbour close to the valley temples of Menkaure and Khafre which was used to ofload the materials coming from other places like the red granite from Aswan.

I really can not good imagine where exactly this old riverbed of the Nile was situated in this picture, even with the hints given.
Anyone tries a guess?

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 04:54 PM
5a. The other- Floating Blocks in Pyramid Center SHAFT+Delivery Tunnel - combination.

There must be another way to let this method 5 function, with nearly no water spilling at all.
I'm thinking about a shaft filled with water, and a waterlock system at the bottom, so a floating raft with a block on top can be inserted, the shaft closed again, and the raft float up through the water collumn to the top of the pipe.

What about one central shaft filled with water all the way to the top of the latest level reached by the builders. It is kept full with water all the time during pyramid construction. Tar from tar-pits keeps it watertight.
At the bottom of the shaft are first 2 chambers constructed, the bottom one in the bedrock, the top one from building blocks.
They are devided horizontally by a several ton weighting, 40 cm thick hardrock plate, which slides in a slot cut out in the pyramid base floor first, before the top chamber is build over it. This slotplate is greased with lots of wax and animal fat, to keep the slotplate watertight. The slot is moved by a lot of levers on both sides, so it can easily slide from left to right and back, many times . The slotplate is 3 times longer than the wide of the chambers, and has a square opening in it hacked at one side, to act as a sliding valve.
If you slide the slotplate, over the lower chamber ceiling, there is one position where it closes the lower chamber perfectly, and the other opposite position leaves a big square opening above the ceiling of the lower chamber, which can act as a passing valve for a small raft with a box full of blownup hides under it, and a 2.6 ton building block on top.
As you guessed already, this construction facilitates the easy lift-off from the building block-transportation raft, UNDER WATER, all the way up to the top floor, where the raft submerges, bobs a few times, then comes to rest, and can be off-loaded. Then the, now empty raft + box full of dressed hides under it, is hauled out of the water, slid to the outskirt of this highest building floor, and slid down a ramp along the slope of the pyramid under construction, At ground level, it is slid back to the entrance of the blocks delivery tunnel, slid to the pyramid center at ground level through the tunnel, and placed in the lower chamber, now emptied. The water is let out by means of pottery pipes, to another little chamber with a screw of Archimedes in it, which can "pump" the water back in the lower chamber when needed. An ingeneous system of pottered baked clay pipes is used together with a few leather valves, to keep the water from returning.

And how on earth they then got f.ex. those two 20 ton "Relieving Chamber" coverstone plates high up there, is a mystery to be also solved then.
Should be quite un-economical to build a ramp in this method, solely to bring up that small amount of gigantic building blocks they used for the big internal chambers.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:03 PM
6. The double axel + pulley -above- + elevators -in- one single Central Shaft system

One remark I must get rid off first.
Some researchers try to convince us for many decennia already that ancient Egypt, which was capable of building one of THE GREATEST ARCHITECTUAL ACHIEVEMENTS in all known history (do not forget the CHINESE LONG WALL btw!), didn't invented wheels and rollers and other round things, before or during the pyramid building era, to aid in that building.

They must have experienced some serious health problem, like insomnia caused by a big fat fast fist in the face, in their toddler years and/or later on.
Because this kind of stubborn factual proof-denying behavior keeps attrackting these memorable kind of events.

Every human being encounters quite early on in life the funny and especially handy properties of NATURALLY round objects.

Ancient humans also found and observed :
Pebbles and round rocks in streams, small logs, fallen tree trunks, wet clay balls and snow balls packed by our hands, which all have to be ROLLED away. Broken tree branch logs roll in the currents of rivers and streams.
Pancakes, apple and other fruit slices, which already have that particularly handy form we know from under our main sources of modern transportation.
Games of marbles, played by myriads of ancient generations. With naturally round pebbles.
And let's not forget the round hollow stems of that handy Egyptian material, the river Nile papyrus reets. Growing in abundancy along both sides of the river Nile. A damn long river indeed.
And round pottery. Naturally round, because of the way most of the small stuff was created, by means of a potters round stone table. I know, real old, ancient pottery was made by building up wet clay rings, and then smoothing. Can you -proof- that potters tables were not known in ancient Egypt?
How about the ROUND egyptian stone made temple collumns? They got ROLLED from their construction to their final erection spot.

And they saw every given day of their life the sun and moon in the sky, even idolized them. Didn't got them thinking?
So, none of them ever stuck a piece of papyrus reet through the middle of a slice of apple, then stuck another slice on the other end of the reet, and observed the interesting possibilities of said piece of mechanical art.
So, we must believe not one of them ever did, and simply proceeded to build that impressive masterpiece of a pyramid, and the pure existance of it, kept scorning the passing eons after completion.
Did I mention CRAP already?

So, that non-wheels theory is total, hilarious CRAP.

Let's move on, after wiping the laughing tears away, shed over the involved hilarious simplistic thoughtprocesses, and despicable misinterpretation of our naturally build-in ability of logical deduction and IMAGINATION .

Are these kind of people really thinking that we miss a substantial amount of IQ, needed to fully understand what CRAP they try to feed us every lasting day of their petty lifes? It's the same as with politicians, some scientists start to believe their own CRAP.
Just because no drawings or explanations were, till now, found? Ever heard of taboos? If there was a taboo on wheels for the simple masses, only for nobility, ofcourse no drawings can be found. Taboos were very strong medicine.

But a better reason : this pharaoh Khufu was an egoistic, greedy maniac (where does he reminds me of?).
He didn't wanted any of his successors to build an even bigger pyramid as his. So he forbid to depict the real construction details. And how he succeeded in silencing his pyramid workers, we will never know. Probably made the whole site into a concentration camp. Only quarry workers were free, to carve the blocks, and to transport them to the site, no further.

Btw, State of Egypt, or whoever : make me pharaoh for 10 years over 20.000 men and 4.000 oxens, and I build you guys a 2 x bigger pyramid. And I know why they were really build, so I will implement all the necessary details, so you can play around with it.
I'll probably do it faster then 10 years. With only ancient procedures and materials. I will choose the place. I need water. And food. And a tiny bit of funding. No more.
You can make heaps of money by filming etc the whole construction, and sell and marketing the whole offspring of ideas.
Why am I expecting sadly enough not a personal message from the Egyptian government, but from some themepark giant?
Do I imagine a new Disneyland, at Cairo, Egypt ? Or Beijing, China ? Well, why not. (Smile)

So, at last we really move on (some of us -can- get carried away a tiny titbit at times, don't kickstart me on all the 9/11 lies from politicians. Sadly enough only a few of us can express themselfs and expose their lies, but still everybody else feels there is something substantially missing in that officially painted 9/11 picture, even if they can't express it).

Well, here we go, back to pyramids, at last :

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:06 PM
IMAGINE a very simple balance system.

Think about 2 thick and strong hardwooden elevator platforms (1.5 x 1.5 meter), tied on both ends of one rope (which was inevitably getting quite long towards the building endfases), which rope is hanging over 2 big fat pulleys, fixed tight on 2 axels. Two axels, fixed above 1 wide, oblong formed pyramid center-shaft, enough space between the axels so the 2 platforms do not touch.

Pulleys are made of 2 identical big hardwooden parts, halfmoon shaped, with 2 smaller halfmoon shaped centered sparings, forming a center hole when bound together, which will fit around the axels.
The two pulley halfs are clamped over one of the 2 axel midpoints and tied together with 2 long, strong, wetted leather bands, which after drying, will shrink, and tie the two halfs very tight together. Now you have an axel with a big pulley in the middle.
Repeat this for the other axel.

The pulleys axels, made from 2 massive hardwood tree trunks, cut as round as possible on both ends, both hang and lean on 2 rests, made of several loose laid building blocks, on both sides of the Central Shaft opening ( 1,5 x 7 meter), with the pulley in the middle, and both axel ends are resting on both sides of the shaft in a halfmoon formed mold hacked out in a specially made hard stone top block, which is constantly greased with warm honeybee wax. One man is devoted only to this waxing.

The rope twining will have been one of the most important jobs on the pyramid construction site in this proposed scheme.
Lots of papyrusses, dressed leather bands, perhaps lianes from the southern jungles, bark cut in lints and first soaked in boiling basic water, and who knows what more tough, natural products, were possibly involved (Do I hear rubber trees? Lots of trees around which do excreed quite interesting stuff when their bark is wounded. Lots of jungle in the southern parts of ancient Egypt. Remember all those Nubian Pharaohs? Black as ebony. Did I say JUNGLE? ).
I have a feeling that the full pyramid height will not have been served by a pulleys+ rope system, since the rope involved must have been just as long as the pyramid's apex height plus 5 meter plus 2 x 1/2 the diameter (radius) of the pulleys and a bit more.
A staggering 146 meters.
And, they will have stopped using the elevator somewhere around level 200, since there was no place enough anymore for the total axels + its holding system on higher levels.
They first filled up the delivery tunnel (that one ran from outskirt till the center), then the elevator shaft, and then went on with the completion of the last 10 levels by means of jacking-up the last blocks along one side of the now nearly completed Great Pyramid

One problem you, the reader, already predicted?
The length of the elevator rope increases with every new level reached.
Well, no better solution as to produce 200 different length of ropes, one for each higher level reached.
This will have been a special job for an increasing amount of rope-twiners during pyramid construction. Could be done everywhere, but ofcourse better near the best source of material for the ropes, then ropes were transported to the pyramid and quarry sites, to be used to drag sledges, blocks, etc., and as elevator platform ropes.
At the endperiod of pyramid construction, the real massive and long ropes had to be twined together from already used ropes from previous levels. They had at least a decennium to get better and better with it, inevitable.
Some plunging of elevators in shafts may have been involved, but, who knows, after the first plunge, someone will have invented the multiple manual emergency breaks, for sure.
Twining ropes was a well understood technique in ancient times, just as twining baskets, sun hats, papyrus boats etc.
(Study references and books about Thor Heyerdahls expeditions with huge twined papyrus boats (vice versa) over the Atlantic Ocean, if you doubt my words.)

The last 9 levels will have been done by the levers+jack-up method, I presume. Level 200 was still big enough to hold the axels resting block construction, stone benches and men. Any earlier level to begin with the levering jack-up method is just as good to me, if you don't want to cramm people and materials on a too small space.

Possibly the first 10 or so lowests, first base levels were also build by the jack-up method, so a lot of time could be won, while ropes etc were fabricated.
Let's see now, how the balance system worked in practice.

1 Block, 2600 kg, on a stirdy platform, comes up from groundlevel, because 40 people (block-pushers and shovers coming back from placing their last block), step on the other, opposite above platform. They are weighting an average 70 kg, a total of 2800 kg, when the last man steps up, the platform starts moving down its shaft, thus forcing the other platform with the 2600 kg block on it, to go all the way up in its shaft. You need about 200 kg overweight, to overcome all the friction in the balanced system. And a damn good brake system on all the 4 ends of the axels. Simply a beam levered under them will work already, just don't let the downward platform gain too much speed, that's the whole trick.
Also smaller beams stuck in holes at the end of the axels will be handy to get the ride started, since quite some friction have to be overcome before a platform really starts moving.

Well, don't laugh, since all of you, and me too, can already imagine the repercussions of herding 40 people on a much too big and too heavy platform in a too wide shaft.

So, we streamline the process, and only let the 4 members of a jacking-up and sliding gang, step on a much smaller (1.5 x 1.5 meter) downward platform, and create the rest of the needed counterweight by placing two two-seater massive stone benches on the platform, weighting each 1260 kg, making a total of 2520 kg worth of counterweight. That makes a full 2800 kg when four persons weighting 70 kg average, seat themselfs on those two benches. And, eureka, down they go! Relaxing on the way down, as an added bonus. Extra stone weights can be utilized to be added to the platform by the gang, to facilitate a smoother descend, overruling the friction of the system.

After reaching the bottom, they wait untill the sign is given from above, that the limestone block up in the other shaft has been slid off its platform, then the 4 men step off their platform and also slide or roll the 2 benches (set nr 2) from their platform on to the shafts floor.
Now we have a balanced, empty platforms system in the shaft. Both platforms in the shaft are identical in form and weight.
Only the weight of the length of rope in the downward shaft disrupts a bit that balance, that's why the platform at the bottom stays there now firmly.
Then they slide or roll the already waiting next limestone block from the transportation sledge on the empty platform.
And walk back through the delivery tunnel to the road to the quarry to pick up a block. Or wait untill the other platform comes down again, and ascend with that one again.
Above, in the other shaft, the other set of 2 stone benches (set nr 1) is then slid on that platform, the next gang of 4 men also steps on, and down they go. Etcetera ad infitum.
No! After 3 times, both counterweights are at ground level, and you have to bring them all the way up again to be usefull.
That means jacking-up 2 x 2800 kg. No fun.

Ofcourse, the architect quickly becomes aware of the improvement of this method.
He doesn' place any people anymore on the platforms, just a limestone building block on one side, and one of 2 sets of counterweights on the other side, to be placed by just 4 men stationary at the shaft's top, and 4 men stationary at the shaft's bottom.
Move 1 : block goes up platform 1, counterweight goes down platform 2. etc. 3 times, then again we end up with 2 counterweights both at groundlevel. No fun to bring them back up.

This elevator method needs the least amount of people to operate the shafts, cut the blocks in the quarries, and transport the blocks to the pyramid. No huge amount of people needed to build and maintain an increasingly massive ramp.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:15 PM
6a. The 2 stone axels on the top, and a rope with slings, hung over them and on both slopes - system

Later on the architect realizes himself that all this ramps, shafts and platforms building is pure time and material wasting, and makes a new much simpler construction :

Which consists of a hard stone axel system (see Notes) on the 2 borders of the south and north sides of any of the present highest construction level platforms.
A long thick rope runs over these 2 axels, one end of it with a big sling in it, hanging all the way down over a guide track (wooden planks or triangular filling stones on every completed pyramid step) on the south pyramid slope, and the other end's sling hanging just 1 meter down the other axel.
The architect orders to start hauling up limestone blocks on one slope, f.ex. the south (nearest to the quarry), and let 300 or 150 people dump 300 or 150 pieces of 10 or 20 kg counterweights in the hardwooden box build on a hard-stone thin plate (to keep the netto weight down) on the platform on the opposite north slope, and that platform thus goes down then as a 3000 kg counterweight for the 2600 kg block on the south side, and goes a bit later up, empty again (because a counterweight of circa 20 x 10 kg was placed on the empty south platform, forcing that down), and then you have the original position of both platforms again, and the south one can be reloaded with a new limestone block of 2600 kg. ETCETERA.
Only problem : how to get all these small 10 or 20 kg stoneblocks back on top of the construction level plateau again.
Well, easy. Let all those men carry them up again along the north slope, a sort of intermediairy half-block-high temporary tripping stones will have facilitated the smooth climbing up.
Thus, you have a few big gangs of counterweight carrying egyptians (day and night shifts used at full moons), going up the slope with a 10 or 20 kg stone, and going down the slope empty handed, ad infinitum untill the pyramid reaches the 200th level. There and then, the axel mechanisms are broken down, and brought to groundlevel back, and completion of the last 9 levels is done by simple jacking up of the last needed blocks.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:24 PM

1. Round stone axels we know already from very ancient Egypt : their temple COLLUMNS.
They made some really thick and massive and high ones, so the stone carving was on a high level of professionalism already in ancient Egypt.
2. The first rope used is the longest one, it has to cover nearly the whole length of the pyramids base plate, but it also has to carry one block, up the south slope, over the shortest traject possible.
The last rope used is the shortest one, but has to travel the longest slope traject up.
This means that JUST ONE rope can be utilized, and cut a bit shorter for every new level reached.
Ofcourse they made some reserve ropes, they had years enough for that.
3. To cut down on too lengthy rope making, the architect can still opt for shafts, but their function is now as counterweight guide rail. And he still must also include one or more delivery tunnel(s) at ground level, running under all those blocks above it.
A much too complicated idea, compared to just letting the rope run up one slope, pass over the construction plateau, run down the other opposite slope just a few meter. (When a block is hauled up on the other slope, a bunch of counterweight stones descends on this side, down this opposite slope).
4. Axels can be made of hard stone (instead of hardwooden trees, much less wear and tear!), resting in two 4 ton half-moon carved-out hard stone support blocks, and the ends waxed with bee wax to minimize friction. This whole simple construction can be jacked up to each new level build and completed. And fixed in place by several logs, stuck in sparings carved in the blocks. Otherwise these axel supports could be dragged over the edge of the plateau.
An even better idea is carving out 2 halfmoon formed trenches, in a special edge block with a 120 ° edge. Then wax these 2 trenches, and lay 2 collumns (rollers) in the trenches. Voila', a rolling rope guidance system which is pressed in place by the load bearing forces of the ropes and their end weights, moving over them.
5. This is my strongest hint, that this method was used :
There must have been a perfect explanation for the utilization of these remarkable 40 cm wide holes, cut out in the base rock around the base of the Great Pyramid, in distances of 5 meter from eachother.

from myself : I'm interested to what purpose the 40 cm round holes were cut in the bedrock around the base of the temples. They lay about 9.50 meters from its base, and were spaced about 5 meters apart.

I have a strong feeling, that exactly these holes are the best proof of my proposed method, when they were used as anchoring points, with some strong logs fixed in them.
Perhaps the architect used a rope from one groundlevel to the other, leading up, over and down, the first slope, top and other slope of the Great Pyramid. And anchored this rope by sticking it through big wooden pulleys stuck on these logs, which were stuck in those 40 cm wide stone holes. Under an angle to the ground of 90°, so a bunch of oxen could drag the rope alongside the base of the pyramid. Add a lot of bee-wax again, and those axel-logs and pulleys, both can turn reasonably free around eachother, and the log can rotate in the 40 cm stone hole in the ground level rock.
That means that he used many more ropes, and thus speeded up consistently the whole process of hauling stones up the pyramid. Perhaps multiple slings were twined at the end of those ropes? And 200 oxens were used to drag the other ends of the now many ropes?
Thus dragging 2 stones in one drag, up the pyramid slope.
I'm afraid the friction would become so high, that the rope would break. If not, another possible extension of this method has seen the light of day.
However, if only one 2600 kg block was dragged up by a gang of oxen, the rope will have been strong enough to carry that weight, I presume.
If not, I would use multiple (because weaker) ropes to drag 1 block up !
Another strong indication that this was the reason for all those 40 cm wide holes, carved in the base stone of the ground level.
Do not underestimate the ingenuity of just one person needed, to come up with these same ideas in those ancient times, and voila', the Great Pyramid was born. And it still stands there, proof of it to be possible.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:28 PM
The only questions we can ask ourselfs about this (in my opinion) best method (6a) of all present and formerly proposed ones, is ofcourse :
Will there have been enough know-how to twine the massive ropes involved?
Will there have been strong enough rope twining materials in the Egyptian kingdoms and the surrounding countries?
I think so. Because we know they utilized already quite sophisticated rope rigging on their Nile going barks and ships.

Remember, these ropes needed to pull up, in a sling at one end, on one pyramid side slope :
a) One block weighting 2600 kg, and 1.17 meter wide, up a f.ex. 1.17 meter wide ramp along the pyramid slope,
b) The ropes own weight.
and needed to hold in a sling on the other pyramid side slope :
c) A thin hard stone plate with vertical hard wooden walls which holds the hundreds of counterweight stones, and the ropes own weight. This box will weight about 250 kg by itself.
Surprisingly, we already know these kind of boxes, we call them stone SARCOPHAGES. After there construction side use, we can dump the deceased pharao in it, and add some nice stone carvings. Architects tend to keep it simple.
However, a stone sarcophage weights a lot more than a wooden one. And we need the lightest construction, since the empty box must be pulled up again, every time a limestone block is heaved up on the other end of the rope.

This pyramid building method needs far, far less input of materials and labour, than the nowadays most popular theory of building up during construction, a huge ramp, which is becoming increasingly massive the higher the pyramid was build, and, in the end, is about half a kilometer long and 150 meters high at its apex (at a 10° angle).

This method also explains the missing ancient drawings of huge dirt ramps or shafts.
It utilizes all methods known and drawn by ancient egyptians, like pushing, pulling, sliding limestone blocks, and using ROPES to shove and slide huge multiple tonnes statues of known pharaohs, as can clearly be seen f.ex. in this ancient picture found in a temple :

Figure 3, Transporting a statue from the tomb of Dhutihotep, El Bersheh

Figure 3 shows how 172 men work to drag an alabaster colossus of the twelfth dynasty monarch, Dhutihotep, from the quarries of Hatnub in Middle Egypt. This statue measured over 6.5 meters high and weighed about 60 tonnes.

The scene also shows men carrying levers and others pouring liquid, presumably water, from pots in order to reduce the friction between the statue and the surface. To transport a 2.6 tonnes element in a similar way, 172 / 60 * 2.6 = 7 to 8 people are needed. To transport the elements on the sledges special roads were constructed. They consisted of a base of rock rubble on which wooden planks where embedded at regular intervals in a layer of clay. The friction was reduced by wetting the clay, as can be seen in figure 3.

He forgets to mention that LONG ROPES were in use also, clearly to see.

Therefore, observing all of above, this was the method of choice for any sane ancient Egyptian Architect.
- and for me.( smiling ). © by LaBTop, 20.08.2006.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:32 PM
7. The multiple seesaws in a double Central Shaft + doors, system

8. The multiple seesaws on 2 slopes, system

9. The rocking-chair + seesaw pulling-up of blocks, system

Why do I assume, we never found inscriptions in stone about levers ?
Because I see no one post triumphantically a clear picture of an ancient drawing of those, or a description in hieroglyphen from literature or online postings?
Were any inscriptions or descriptions found ever, about ramps leading up a pyramid ? All the way up, or 1/3, halfway up, or 2/3 up ? This seems to be the leading theory today, however no convincing visible proof found yet.
That means all other theories still can earn more credit, every proposed method or combination of methods is a possible candidate for the final theory.

Perhaps another good read : Construction of the Giza Pyramids.
(didn't read it myself yet, will do so soon)

The ancient architects will have found a best method of up-and offloading of a transportation sledge.
Uploading at the Quarry for example :

To me it is still not clear if the pyramid quarry was a limestone hill, which got cut down to ground level, or a mined down hole in the ground. Let's assume an open mine in the ground.

Use rollers under the blocks to transport blocks up from the bottom of the quarry via winding ramps up all sides of the mine, to the quarries ground level, slide the 73x117x117cm blocks over the oiled-in quarry floor to a specially dug sledge trench for uploading blocks, which is 50 cm wide, dug out in the quarry floor. The walls and floor of this trench are constructed from harder stone plates, to prevent too fast wear and tear.

A sledge is 45 cm wide, 30 cm high, and 120 cm long, and consists of a U-form frame made from hardwood, which neatly fits in the sledge trench.
This trench has a floor which is slowly increasing in depth to 35 cm, then the block-loading platform part of it follows, which is a two meter long trench-traject decreasing in depth, from 35 cm at the start to 20 cm at the end of that two meter part. Then the trench floor runs slowly back up to the Quarry floor level, which is also the beginning of the Ramp level.

When an empty sledge is pulled, pushed and parked in the trench, the next block is slid sideways (one of the 117 x 117 cm sides ) over the trench. Since the trench is only 50 cm wide, the 117 cm wide block can be easily slid over the trench to the other side, without tipping down into it. The block rests now on both sides of the trench equally.
The sledge is then persistently further hauled through under it, and because of the decreasingly lower depth in that 2 meters traject, the block will be lifted from the quarry floor by the sledge and then slowly rise above the quarry floor, untill the end of the loading platform's upward angled trench floor is reached. The sledge is hauled out the trench, onto the quarry floor and up the ramp, and then all the way further up to the pyramid building site.

There one of the above transportation methods will be used to bring the block up the pyramid, to its final deposition point.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:39 PM

In first instance, the choice of the architects for the most simple, least technically complex and still economical method of delivering limestone blocks from quarry to pyramid and up the pyramid to a level closests to the top, would have been a massive long ramp, with a double small road on top, piled up to every new level, slightly lengthened and broadened in the repeating process.
This piling up would be done most economically for 138 times, after each completion of a recently laid, new layer of blocks. And that ramp would be used as close as possible to the top, still having an acceptable slope angle. The rest, 71 levels, would be done by the jack-up method, using 2 sets of levers, one using standard and the other using longer levers.

However, tired from the huge amount of labour involved with the constructing and the demolishing afterwards from that huge, massive ramp, the architects would have come up probably with method 6a hypothesis, which is in my opinion, the far best solution.

(BTW, am still trying to find that carbon dating post, be patient please)
Aha, found, dr.Mark Lehner 's organisation's website, a very interesting read of all their pages :

from above link :
Our radiocarbon results from the Lost City site suggest that the dates on charcoal scatter widely, like those from the pyramids, with many dates older than the historical estimate. The inhabitants were very likely recycling their own settlement debris during the 85 or so years that they were building pyramids.
The pyramid builders often reused old cultural material, possibly out of expedience or to make a conscious connection between their pharaoh and his predecessors.

Because, that is another strong indicator that this method 6a was used.
The last 10 to 20 levels or so were inevitably build by the levers and jack-up method.
The stones needed for that, perhaps came from another, more "holier" quarry for special purpose blocks.
Like another, older pyramid. Pirated stones.
And thus had a different carbon date.

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:46 PM
PS : The (far above) sugar-cubes annex limestone-blocks problem explained :
Trying to create more work space on the upper 1/3 of the pyramid, on each edge step from the levels 138 to 209, for :
2 leverers => limestone block 209, no blocks laid yet.
148 ..........□□□□□□□□□□ (^ the real apex comes much higher up, afterwards)
147 .........□□□□□□□□□■■ ("ghost" apex, now missing blocks must get laid, BUT.. : )
146 ........□□□□□□□□■■■■ ( .. when 1 missing block is laid, the 1/2 block advantage is gone, ..)
145 .......□□□□□□□■■■■■■ ( .. all the way down and back up again, every time a new block is laid!)
144 ......□□□□□□■■■■■■■■
143 .....□□□□□■■■■■■■■■■
142 ....□□□□■■■■■■■■■■■■
141 ...□□□■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
140 ..□□■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ (^ increasingly more missing blocks)
139 .□■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ (first jacked-up floor level blocks)
138 ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ (max. econ.angle and mass from the ramp reached)

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 05:53 PM
Thank you for your attention, that was one weeks worth of reading references, playing with sugarcubes, trying to make drawings of all possibilities and impossibilities, and contemplating on the greatness of the human race.
It will be many weeks more work to read all these interesting pages I met while researching, which were left back for later studying.

The methods which were not yet filled in, are left out for clearer reading of the more interesting ones. They will be reported on later, if wanted.

Please post your remarks now.
Thanks in advance for being gracious in style. LT/

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 06:11 PM
I think we're all a bit stunned, LaBtop...that's a remarkable bit of research and careful thought. It's going to take us all awhile to absorb all those sugar cubes.

Right off the bat, I'd have to say

posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 10:38 PM

Originally posted by lostinspace
Here's a theory to sink your teeth into:

The father of the ancient Egyptians and the African race was known as Ham from the Hebrew legends. Ham could have been known as Chamu Chufu to the Egyptians.

Ooo, can you point me in the direction of this information?

posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 12:16 AM
My whole view on this is i think he is right look at it this way Ice age, look where all the prymids are, think about it there all below the ice line of the last ice age ? am i not the only person who sees that that says to me that they were here along time befor the egyptians

posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 12:34 AM
Hey LaBTop

You have, from what I have been able to review so far, done a great service for us all with your presentation here in ATS.

This is an excellent example of what we should all be presenting, when offering views about various topics.

Kudos and thanks for your effort

Now, to find the time to go over everything.



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