Pyramids at Giza were there BEFORE the Egyptians got there.

Originally posted by whylistentome

Originally posted by Marduk

Then again, there are so many writings (both ancient and recent) that refer to beings out of this world visiting us and gifting us with advanced technology

thats funny because I have never read any ancient texts that claim anything close to that
just lots of recent mistranslations that do
perhaps you could provide a link to your claims at some point otherwise its just so much hearsay/rubbish/gospell/bs (delete where applicable)

Not a problem Marduk. It's quite easy to find links to references on such. Primarily it is with the Vedic literature that I am fascinated. Let your journey begin. I realize that you appear to be one of those "I won't believe it until I SEE it" kind of person.

It is either that or you simply try to dispute any and all proof that points to something that will change this world completely.

There are a few options explaining your stance as such. A) Either you know the things stated here to be truth and you are being paid to dispute them to try and make people look bad; B) You are simply a no-nonsense person that just wants HARD proof; C) You just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

Mike,
You're a good person and a (sometimes) logical thinker, as I believe I've tried to point out before in my response to at least one of your prior posts. But you're barking up the wrong tree here with Marduk.

This guy is like me in that he originally bought in to the crazy ancient astronaut stuff, the "worlds in collision" stuff, Atlantis and etc. He (like me) looked into these areas out of pure unadulterated interest in the subject, only to find he'd been lied to.

Marduk chooses his name very well, though perhaps not the wording of his posts. The man can tell you off the top of his head absolutely anything you could ever want to know about ancient Mesopotamia. How many here can do the same?

Consequently, it is certain that your above three options explaining Marduk's attitude fall short, lacking the fourth and explanatory option "D"

D) Marduk already knows that there is no "proof that points to something that will change this world completely," as you put it (I would have said "evidence that ...") and he is baiting you - but in a good way - to get you to do the research he has already done. Sort of like what you said here:

Originally posted by whylistentomeEither way I always enjoy your posts because it forces people to dig deeper.

Originally posted by whylistentomeI will continue to dig for actual excerpts from translations of various texts that DO INDEED speak of "out of this world" involvement and technology.

Here is a simple link that talks to the many descriptions of flying machines from thousands of years ago. Also, I am currently looking for a particular story from these texts that I read that described an all out "war in the skies" between these flying ships that utilized beams of fire to destroy things.

www.hinduwisdom.info...

If you use the search function here at ATS with the term "Mahabarata" you'll find plenty of reasons to stop believing that these flying machines or ancient advanced tech wars ever occurred at all. One of our members here, Donner, provided me with a link to the actual translation of the so often used "description of heavenly battles" that you find at a million websites about the subject, supposedly quoted from the Mahabarata. the actual text is a far, far cry from what the Fringers try to claim at these silly "ancient nuclear war" websites.
Here's a link to that ATS thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com....
This thread contains the erroneous and misleading "quote from the Mahabarata" that I referred to above.

Here's the link to the particular chapter of the Mahabarata that Donner gave me:

www.sacred-texts.com....

That link can also be found in the ATS thread I linked above.

If you want to read some of the texts that your linked site uses, you should go to sacred-texts.com. Here's a link to the english translation of the Mahabarata, for example, that can be found there:
www.sacred-texts.com....

When you see any of these religious sites like the one you linked (yep, it's like asking Pat Robertson for information about the resurrection of Christ) using the Vymanika Shastra as some kind of "ancient Sanskrit text" source, as your linked site does on several of the pages it suggests you access, you should keep in mind that this text, while metioned in several other "ancient" texts (none of them really all that ancient, BTW,) was lost (if it ever existed at all.) The text they are calling the Vymanika Shastra today was channeled by some wandering penniless Hindu in the early 20th century.

If you're going to try to argue with Marduk, you better get all your Vimanas (translation? - Temple roof!) in a row.

Harte

Originally posted by Marduk
1) god created the earth in seven days
2) god is ommipotent and invisible and lives in the sky somewhere
3) everything the bible says is true especially the heavily edited modern versions
4) all scientists are wrong
5) god loves you so much that if you make an error he will send you to hell to be agonizingly tortured for ever and ever
6) god sent his only son to die for our sins which we havent committed yet
7) the Nazis who murdered 6 million jews were evil
8 ) the catholics who murdered 500 million men women and children are good
9) any religion that worships any other god is completely wrong and they are all going to christian hell for it
10) Noah had an ark the size of two football fields which he managed to fit two fo every creature of earth into shortly after god decalred that he would kill every living thing on earth but remember god is omnipotent so it must be that we just don't understand how why or even when he did it

1. Seven days is 7 eons for 7 levels of existance. Analogy: a way to explain complex subjects easily.
2. What drives the idea of organized life vs the chaos nature of the universe is god and it is everywhere that life exists, which is also everywhere.
3. The bible is a political document subject to technical errors in translation and transcribing too. It is conceptually correct in an analogous way.
4. All scientists should be more concerned with what they do not know and what they are not capable of realizing is the extent of their ignorance.
5. If one believes in reincarnation then earth is purgatory and karma is hell.
6. The past, present and future have occurred and are happening right now, like the oracle said in the Matrix film: is it why you made the choices you made that matters.
7. The nazi's were guided by evil etheric forces but ultimately driven by inane human drive of survival and prosperity like those they saw as ultimate rivals.
8. If one believes that there is a spirit and the body is the puppet that enslaves it then any attrocity under religion makes sense to free the spirit. But life can serve purpose to advance the spirit and this is often lost on some religionists.
9. God is what moves you.
10. Noah was an Atlantean and his ark may have been a space ship and his ark was a DNA bank... not impossible even by today's advanced human technologies.

A good debate.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by undo

The Mahabarata

SECTION CLXXXIV

(Drona-vadha Parva)

www.sacred-texts.com...

Yup thats the one... You snuck in while I was typing

There's another one too! (I edited it to include Krishna's incandescent weapon with all the power of the universe blah-blah-blah thing) Here it is:
The Mahabharata
of
Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa
BOOK 8

Karna-parva

www.sacred-texts.com...

it's around page 63, i think. lol it's very loooooong.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by undo]

hehehe. Marduk, if the same Marduk from Graham Hancock's board, thinks Enki and Enlil were ordinary men from the mountains of Russia. He's into that super aryan race theology (disguised as atheism, but really a religion in its own right, even if it does worship at the altar of darwin and survival of the fittest).

he thinks heaven was a town in the literal mountains.

nothing like completely ignoring every other text to arrive at your conclusion!

[edit on 25-9-2006 by undo]

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by undo

The Mahabarata

SECTION CLXXXIV

(Drona-vadha Parva)

www.sacred-texts.com...

Yup thats the one... You snuck in while I was typing

There's another one too! See my above post (I edited it to include Krishna's incandescent weapon with all the power of the universe blah-blah-blah thing)

Undo,

I don't see anything particularly unusual in either linked page.

That's the problem, I think, with using real translations. They are boring since they don't contain all the nuke war and death ray stuff.

Harte

[edit on 9/25/2006 by Harte]

hehehe. Marduk, if the same Marduk from Graham Hancock's board, thinks Enki and Enlil were ordinary men from the mountains of Russia. He's into that super aryan race theology (disguised as atheism, but really a religion in its own right, even if it does worship at the altar of darwin and survival of the fittest).

There is no such thing as an Aryan race
if you think there is then you have links to prove it ?
Aryan was always a religious group "
psd.museum.upenn.edu...
psd.museum.upenn.edu...
psd.museum.upenn.edu...
and I am a pantheist of babylonian extraction
www.thepropheticyears.com...

he thinks heaven was a town in the literal mountains.

All day long the South Wind blew ...,
blowing fast, submerging the mountain in water,
overwhelming the people like an attack.
No one could see his fellow,
they could not recognize each other in the torrent.
The gods were frightened by the Flood,
and retreated, ascending to the heaven of Anu.
The gods were cowering like dogs, crouching by the outer wall.

every ancient culture claims that heaven was on a mountain top Beth, from greece to India to Mesoamerica and all stops in between
only Judaeo-christians claimed that heaven is in outer space somewhere.
didn't realise you were a christian but from your beliefs its obvious really
stop ignoring the facts in favour of your erroneous personal sci fi belief
and do some actual research for once, that way you might someday be credible

nothing like completely ignoring every other text to arrive at your conclusion!

transference again
en.wikipedia.org...
tut tut. keep taking the pills

Originally posted by undo
nothing like completely ignoring every other text to arrive at your conclusion!

[edit on 25-9-2006 by undo]

And I thought we were crazy!!

BTW Undo you have mail! Its 4 meg zip "for your eyes only" tether report

Marduk,

so you are saying, of all the ancient texts, only the bible is fictitious? or is it only fictitious where the word heaven is involved?

references such as "the field constellation" are not talking about heaven or the heavens? enlil's name was also interchangeable with the word mountain. does that mean he was always a mountain? he was called the great mountain.
enki's name was also interchangeable with great bull. does that mean he was a great bull? you're picking a hard line on one word and not incorporating anything else but the single definition you've chosen for it.

the same thing happens with abzu. one definition only. lol what about all the other references to it, that have nothing to do with underground rivers.

this seems to be a habit of yours. i suppose we are all guilty of doing that to one degree or another, but you've chosen a particular stance that just so happens to ignore most of the ancient historical texts.


[edit on 25-9-2006 by undo]

Hello people,
I am just here to add some more research material and hope it helps. Please do not say the content of the website is from the wrong angle because its religious this is just one angle and by chance this post is aking the same question or making the same claim as the discusssion in my posted link. You can right click and download the videos they are in two parts, if you want to disprove the discussions claims then please do but don't attack me in the process. I am just giving people and the post maker something to visually see and being discussed and I am kind enough to have stopped by here to help and put some effort into a discussion that I probably would not have been involved in.

Here are the video links, please download them as they won't stay on forever in this website.

www.prophecyinthenews.com...

The videos you want are The Pillar of Enoch (Part 1 and 2)

Anyone want to comment please do.

Do I sound like the Pope, I am only quoting don't protest please.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by The time lord]

an [SKY] (1598x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian, unknown) wr. an "sky, heaven; upper; crown (of a tree)" Akk. šamû


so they ascended to anu? lol where's that pray tell? in the sky/heaven. of course, it could also be the top of a tree (which I find particularly interesting!!)

Originally posted by Harte
That's the problem, I think, with using real translations. They are boring since they don't contain all the nuke war and death ray stuff.

Harte

That's exactly the problem.

In the mid 1990's, there were some Psychological Studies that looked into such things. They gave people two "translated texts", one of them was very much Sci-fi, out of this world and the other was more realistic. The study found that people on average believed the second translation but wanted to believe the first.

I e-mailed my old lecturer, so I'll wait for her to send the name of it back if she does. But it was always something that I found really interesting and you see it day-to-day, especailly on this site and with books like the De Vinci Code. If you showed the first one, gave snippets of fact and made it so it was possible people beleived it.

The problem is, with these translations. When they do it to make them "out of this world" they tend not to work across the spectrum. So you use the siphor that they use on a second book and it doesn't translate a thing.

Odium.

Originally posted by Odium



That's exactly the problem.


Odium.

No the problem is denial, because it requires examining yourself. It asks you to change your view of the universe. To consider that your actions and thought processes here might have some bearing on the future, especially your future.

I've just shown where the word "Anu" is also considered to be the "Sky", "Heaven"
But Marduk prefers to view Heaven as not the "Sky" or some other dimensional abode, but a city over on yonder mountain range. It's like trying to say the ancients didn't know the earth was a sphere and yet in the same voice, describe at length their understanding of astronomy, which was rather impressive! How does one establish complex astronomical observations without understanding the sphere? That's just for starters.

thats because you don't know half the facts you need and have already reached a theory

Anu was a sun god
where would you go to get close to worship a sun God Beth
down in a valley
the area that you go to worship a god is always called Heaven
you also often misquote me
this is either deliberate because you don't want people to hear what i have said because you know its better than your sci fi crap
or because you simply lack the cognitive ability to understand
so you're either sneaky or stupid
which is it

surely after all if you are so right about the sumerians being in contact with aleins you would find all the evidence you need in sumerian texts and Sumerian language
as far as I am aware you have only ever quoted from akkadian ones and its quite clear that you can't transliterate sumerian or you would already have done so

if you had studied the sumerians you would know this
they knew of only five planets
had no telescopes
you think thats impressive
hmmmm
and as for knowing that the earth was a sphere, they did, its kinda obvious when you spend a lot of time in the mountains in your genesis. the curvature of the earth is quite easy to see from high up. what.. you didn't notice. mountains are mentioned in 80% of the texts you claim to know so well. and mesopotamia has none

Undo.

You need to show it in the context of other words. Many languages have one-hundrad and ten definitions for certain words, especailly those from around the Middle East. When you're translating things, you check what each individual word can mean and then you begin to place them all together until you come up with a possible sentence and then you continue until you have every possible sentence. You then do it with all of them until you get it all translated and it makes sense.

Take for example this:
Sentance A1: They seperated
Sentance A2: They destroyed
Sentance B: from each other.

A1 and B go together, A2 and B do not. This is how they translate things. However, every so often you can translate things together and make stories which fit. However, when you use that siphor to decode other pieces of text it comes out as nothing.

Everything in Ancient Texts is context. It is not taking a single word and looking at every possible meaning.

Furthermore, your analogy works rather well.

At first the ancients cared not for if the Earth was round, if it went around the sun. Then people like Aristarchus published there work. Then another group came along and changed things [without any evidence except speculation and blind faith]. Then the real scientists corrected it.

This is rather like what's going on in this thread.

Egyptians built the Pyramids, everyone was fine and happy abotu that. Then a group of people try and claim otherwise [without any evidence except speculation and blind faith]. Then the real scientists [people like Byrd, etc] are forced to constantly correct things.

Edit: Spelling.

[edit on 25/9/2006 by Odium]

You check out this site:

home.comcast.net...

is there a hidden pyramid underneath the sand hidden as a major library
check the pictuers it looks like a map.

Originally posted by Harte

This guy is like me in that he originally bought in to the crazy ancient astronaut stuff, the "worlds in collision" stuff, Atlantis and etc. He (like me) looked into these areas out of pure unadulterated interest in the subject, only to find he'd been lied to.

So let me see if I have this straight... you and Marduk were on the right track...but somehow fell off the path. Lied to? By whom? So far as I know alternate theories are still just that THEORIES. How can you lie about a theory? Only those saying this is the accepted absolute truth can lie... Theorist can be wrong yes, but then it is just a theory until we can prove it...

D) Marduk already knows that there is no "proof that points to something that will change this world completely," as you put it (I would have said "evidence that ...") and he is baiting you - but in a good way - to get you to do the research he has already done.

And I respectfully ask how does he KNOW? A statement like that would require as much burden of prove as anything we say. All he can KNOW is his personal opinion... Does he have a degree in Mesopotamian Archeology? Or is it just from reading?

"Forcing" us to dig deeper is fine and dandy... we are doing that anyway... and I have always said the best helpers to research are honest skeptics who work so hard to disprove your theory that they provide you with evidence...

One case in point is M Hiesner... he set out to prove that Sitchin is wrong... that nowhere does it say that Niburu is a planet, but that all the translations point to the fact that it is a "crossing point" which works a lot better with a Gate Theory

And sending us to other negative view threads on ATS is not going to convince anyone... most topics on ATS have as many threads for and against... and even those are subdivided into many opinions as some agree with some points but not all...

Sigh... Back to John Lears Lunar Mine

Odium,

Problem is, you're proceeding from the false teachings of the Holy Roman Empire, when they tried to prove the earth was flat and the center of the universe by disavowing all the other ancient texts that suggested otherwise and by flat out denying what it said in the bible regarding the shape of the earth. When the german higher criticism grew to be the new masters of all that is truth, replacing the Vatican, it kept the Vatican's arguments against the other ancient texts! That was a huge mistake, because those arguments were specifically designed to single out catholicism as the only true religion on the planet!

Marduk,

Now, now, you just used the translations to prove Aryan was a religion not a race! Bravo on that, by the way. And what did you do? You used the word "An" for sky/heaven. So when I use the word "An" as part of the word "Anu", it's suddenly no longer applicable? "Anu was the sun god." Well where's the sun at, dude? On top of the ziggurat? lol Right up there on top of the ziggurat with the Field Constellation? An and Anu were the same, as was the egyptian "On" and "Anubis," or at least, that's my theory at this juncture.

Originally posted by cmaracing
You check out this site:

home.comcast.net...

is there a hidden pyramid underneath the sand hidden as a major library
check the pictuers it looks like a map.

Oh now that's interesting. Does he explain it indepth at any juncture?

Yes the anomaly that exist is a mathematical improbability with out observation from above also there are many stories about the hidden knowledge of the ancients witch where killed or diapered during one of the great floods causing the 2 major pyramids built afterwards as a guide to where to dig.