Only idiots believe in UFOs

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
OP isn't asking if you're an idiot. OP is trying to find examples of scientists and prominent sceptics saying things to the effect of "Only idiots believe in UFOs".

Correct. Thanks for explaining that for me. I had thought my OP was fairly clear...

It's actually about as common as UFO sceptics writing things off as swamp gas.

But I've personally encountered the view fairly commonly among friends and colleagues to the effect that "only idiots believe in UFOs". I've just been surprised that there seem to be relatively few explicit statements to this effect by any prominent scientists or skeptics...

On the other hand, I've collated quite a few statements that expressly state that "believers" in "pseudoscience" (a rather vague term, but commonly applied to "UFO believers") do not understand science. Again, I've found it a fairly trivial task to compile material (including material published by skeptics) that casts doubt upon such allegations in relation to the actual characteristics of "UFO believers" (e.g. the Goode, 2002 article I mentioned on the previous page and various studies thereafter that have cited that article).

All the best,

Isaac

[edit on 21-10-2009 by IsaacKoi]

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

It's actually about as common as UFO sceptics writing things off as swamp gas.

But I've personally encountered the view fairly commonly among friends and colleagues to the effect that "only idiots believe in UFOs". I've just been surprised that there seem to be relatively few explicit statements to this effect by any prominent scientists or skeptics...

On the other hand, I've collated quite a few statements that expressly state that "believers" in "pseudoscience" (a rather vague term, but commonly applied to "UFO believers") do not understand science. Again, I've found it a fairly trivial task to compile material (including material published by skeptics) that casts doubt upon such allegations in relation to the actual characteristics of "UFO believers" (e.g. the Goode, 2002 article I mentioned on the previous page and various studies thereafter that have cited that article).

I've definitely heard it in social circles, and occasionally from others, but in my experience it tends to be said by people who haven't actually looked at the subject. Equally with regards to sceptics' attitudes towards pseudoscience. I've found people who have actually looked at it no longer see it in such black and white terms. Not so much that they view the beliefs as any less wrong, or less idiotic, but that people don't have to be idiots to hold views that are idiotic.

I disagree with a good 80% of stuff here in the Aliens & UFO forums, especially more extreme stuff, and I think it's idiotic. I don't think the people making the statements are idiots, in the same way that I hope they'd not think I'm an idiot for my sceptical beliefs (which, they may well think idiotic - which is fine). I've met plenty of highly educated people with beliefs I consider wacky, and don't think it's about intelligence.

There's a book excerpt here:

www.kases.org...

That discusses some of the demographics of belief in things that are generally considered pseudoscience.



[edit on 21-10-2009 by jackphotohobby]

This certainly doesn't help with that perception...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Springer...

reply to post by IsaacKoi


For me it's not a belief. I've seen them on two occasions with my own eyes, and have no doubt that there's something out there that defies what we consider to be normal physics. Whether they are alien craft, or secret terrestrial craft is another question. It's just something you have to see for yourself, and all the hoaxing, new age gobbledygook, and outright lies just muddy the waters of any real investigation into the phenomena.

Now, if you want to talk about stupidity where UFOs are regarded, there's plenty to point at from the charlatans that claim to channel alien commanders, and such. It's never the alien janitor, the alien cook, or the alien mechanic. Point at the claims of shape shifting reptilians, nordic looking humanoids, etc... Personally, I'd expect something more exotic in an alien life form.

I was told they were ether ship years back and ever since
that conclusion I think we all know what they are, we just don't
tell any one.

So only the uninformed believe in UFOs.
Electrical pressure waves or scalar waves seems to be the mode of operation.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Anyone who denies the reality of UFOs should be ignored and not given any prominence. Being a natural skeptic, I can understand why they deny UFOs. It's really simple. Skeptics demand evidence to accept something. Our court system demands evidence for someone to be found guilty. Evidence says it all.

But we're not talking about skeptics in general because you can be a skeptic and keep an open mind as I did until I had my first sighting followed by 5 more plus videotaping one. But there are certain skeptics, and I keep naming Robert Sheaffer as the most closed-mind skeptic in existence, who are not impressed with the amount of circumstancial evidence that now supports the reality of UFOs. Not everyone is a hoaxer and we now we have millions of photos/films/videos, including mine, of course.

People's tales do not count for that is hearsay and even in a court it has no weight. But judgement should not be passed on hearsay, it should just not carry the same weight as irrefutable evidence. But don't take me to task because I deny the reality behind claims of alien interaction. For that there is not one shred of evidence regardless of who says what. No one has brought forth even circumstancial evidence and implants just don't count. And forget crop circles. At least for me.

Until I have an experience with aliens, and how could I be convinced that they are aliens from another place other than earth?, or irrefutable evidence is provided for their reality, I'll just say "I don't know."

Very well said Ed.

It is good to be a open minded skeptic. Being skeptical does not mean you have to be closed minded.

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
I've definitely heard it in social circles, and occasionally from others, but in my experience it tends to be said by people who haven't actually looked at the subject.

That fits with my experience. Indeed, one of the points of this thread was to highlight research and statements by skeptics (including Klass himself) that have commented on misperceptions about ufo witnesses/believers.

(This is closely related to the more general point made in my recent "Skeptics" v "Believers" thread that here are quite a few media myths about UFO reports and UFO witnesses that most UFO researchers and skeptics would agree are misconceived.)

I've met plenty of highly educated people with beliefs I consider wacky, and don't think it's about intelligence.

Ditto

There's a book excerpt here:

www.kases.org...

That discusses some of the demographics of belief in things that are generally considered pseudoscience.

Thanks for that highly relevant link. I'll keep a note of it (and some of the material referenced within that article).

All the best,

Isaac

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Zelong
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

Now your wasting my time with Your crad research!

Um, what is "crad" research?

My Conclusion is: Do it on your own time Lazy British Barrister

Please have a glance at a couple of my threads (such as "Free UFO Researcher Starter Pack", "Top 100 UFO Cases - Revealed!", "Best cases - Rockefeller Briefing Document") before calling me "lazy".

Anyway, what is wrong with seeking co-operation and input from others on some research I have been doing over quite a prolonged period?

Other people may already have spotted relevant material. Indeed, several people have shared relevant links, references and experiences in this thread.

You Clown!

Er, ok.

I'm not quite sure what part of my OP, or various subsequent posts, you object to.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by IsaacKoi]

After looking for such material over the last few years (and posting about it in this thread, which I started about 4 years ago), I finally have found an example of a prominent scientist expressly stating that UFOs are only seen by cranks and weirdos. The amount of time and effort I've spent on this - and the lack of other examples provided in this relatively long thread - demonstrates fairly clearly that (contrary to common claims about ridicule) such public remarks are EXTREMELY rare.

In a video entitled "Stephen Hawking asks big questions about the universe" recorded as part of TED2008, Stephen Hawking states

"I am discounting reports of UFOs...Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos..."

That extract is embedded below:


The full video, and discussion of it, is included on the webpage below:
www.ted.com...

I'll embed the full video below. The discussion of aliens begins at about 3 minutes 30 seconds. The remarks about UFOs are made around the 5 minutes mark.


If other people have other examples of such ridicule, I'd be happy to reconsider my view that the complaints about ridicule are far more common than the problem itself.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


IsaacKoi, when hawking refers to cranks and weirdos he's specifically means people who claimed to have seen an alien spaceship and have indentified it as such. Its annoying the term ufo is conflated with alien spaceship but it happens all the time.

I'm 100% certain that if you asked hawking he would agree people see things they cant identify (UFO) but he would disagree that they are alien spaceships. He would likely concede there could be unknown natural phenomenon accounting for some ufo reports but again not alien spaceships.

for the record i also think only idiots believe in ETs visiting earth.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

IsaacKoi, when hawking refers to cranks and weirdos he's specifically means people who claimed to have seen an alien spaceship and have indentified it as such.

Really? Is that your interpretation of remarks he made in the video, or have you seen a fuller explanation by him of his remark?

Given that I've rarely found such an express remark, I'd like to see any follow up of it.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


the topic of the subject was ET life. I therefore deduce he was meaning UFO as in ET spaceships.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

IsaacKoi, when hawking refers to cranks and weirdos he's specifically means people who claimed to have seen an alien spaceship and have indentified it as such. Its annoying the term ufo is conflated with alien spaceship but it happens all the time.

I'm 100% certain that if you asked hawking he would agree people see things they cant identify (UFO) but he would disagree that they are alien spaceships. He would likely concede there could be unknown natural phenomenon accounting for some ufo reports but again not alien spaceships.

for the record i also think only idiots believe in ETs visiting earth.

I think so too. The popular misconception is that UFO equals alien space craft/flying saucer. I make the same mistake all the time even if I should know better

Hi all,
If only idiots believe in UFOs then perhaps they can explain this experience (there are others).

It is the mid-sixties and I was sitting on the front steps of our home, now on Long Island. As I sat there I noticed a light in the sky that registered in my mind as a plane, probably a jet airliner. It didn’t even dawn on me that this was a picture I should have only seen at night as it was a sunny afternoon. I wasn’t looking at a plane’s headlights, I was looking at a ball of light; I should have been looking at the plane itself as it was daytime. This shows that seeing unidentified flying objects in the sky was not even a thought in my life at that time; I defaulted to the only thing I knew I would see flying in the sky – a plane, and never questioned it.
As it came towards me out of the north and got closer, it suddenly seemed to slow down, which caught my attention. Then it seemed to stop. As I watched, after what seemed to be a few seconds, it began to move again. It suddenly banked off to its right (west) in a very small curving loop-like pattern, looped to its left and shot out to the east at an incredible speed. THEN the lights went on in my head. I just sat there and said – “WOW … a UFO.”
For most people this is where the story ends; they see a craft, it does something odd, end of story; but not for me. As I sat there wondering what the heck I had just witnessed, I suddenly became ill, and it seemed to be getting worse the longer I sat there. I had to lie down. I slowly got up and then tried to get to the lounge on the side patio. I made it as far as the garage and had to stop. As I leaned on the small work table my father had built onto the wall by the garage door, I seemed to be getting worse. What was happening? I finally staggered around to the side patio and crashed on the lounge-chair.
When I finally woke up, I was very groggy. My mother walked out and asked if I was OK; she said I had slept for a couple of hours or so. I told her I was OK, and then I noticed my father at the end of the driveway talking to our neighbor from across the street; he called me over and asked a strange question. It seemed my neighbor had been working in his yard and saw me sitting on the steps. My neighbor said he had heard a noise, turned around to see what it was, looked back and I was gone. I had - vanished off the front steps? It needs to be said that he was noticeably upset by this picture. I said I had no memory of anything like that, and that I probably went back into the house. I was not putting two and two together at this point, but he said there was not enough time for me to have moved and gone anywhere. It would be like you standing and talking to someone, you hear a noise and look to see what it was, finding nothing you turn back, and the person you were talking to - is GONE. Since I had no memory of anything happening, none of this made any sense to me. Maybe this was when I stumbled into the garage (he still would have seen me)? But this still doesn’t answer the question as to why I had gotten sick.

My experiences go back to the mid-'50s ... anyone who boo-hoo's this topic is the idiot LOL ....

reply to post by onlychild


why does the light you saw have to be anything to do with feeling ill? this is a classic example of how our brains work. Humans look for confirming factors all the time to make sense of the world around us. But not all events are connected.

Why cant the light you saw be a symtom of feeling ill maybe it wasnt there at all. i sometime see stars if i stand up too quick.

Finally your testimony doesnt mean anything, people see things they cant identify. so what? Science cares about testable evidence/observations & maths. Stories dont mean jack becuase we know people make them up.

Originally posted by yeti101
the topic of the subject was ET life. I therefore deduce he was meaning UFO as in ET spaceships.

Thanks for the clarification of your comment.

All the best,

Isaac

I don't waste my time on such people. This sums it up very well...

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him”

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec