Iran or USA----Whose the bigger threat to Global/middle east stability?

Wouldnt it be fabulous to wake up tomorrow and find out that the United States government protector of truth and liberty(lol) has lied to the American People about the veracity of thier claims that Iran was a threat to the United States or any of its allies.

Well ladies and Gentleman. It is tomorrow morning and guess what....Iran is not a NUCLEAR threat to the United States nor is it a threat to the overall stability of the Middle East region or the world.
The purpose of this post is to hopefully show WAR Mongering Americans, btw I am a VOTING american, that what is going on right now is just the usual smoke and mirrors. Watch this so i can pull a fast one.

I believe that this is a political conspiracy the likes of which we havent seen since Lincoln tried to convince everyone that the Civil war was about slaves. Just like with Lincoln a REASON the American people could get behind was needed. THis administration has used the "Mushroom cloud" as thier political caveat. And as with Lincoln it seems that America has taken it hook, line, and sinker. As with the civil war this is not about a "Mushroom Cloud", it is about American Superiority, the conquest of the Middle east, and IMHO energy. Who, other than Israel, has more political power in our nations capitol? The Fat Cat Oil Barrons and the Telecommunications Industry. We arent in the Middle east to spread freedom and democracy...if we wanted to do that all we need to do is look South into Mexico....but that is an argument for another thread. We are there for oil which brings me to my point, Iran or USA----Whose the bigger threat to Global/middle east stability?

So i have few questions which I believe will answer the question who is the bigger threat to global and middle east stability.

1. Who is the ONLY nation in the entire world to use a Nuclear weapon on a civilian population?

2. Which country goes around the world causing Regime changes, many to tyranical leaderes?

3. Which country has more troops on foreign soils?

4. Which country uses Depleated Uranium shells in thier assualt rifles?

5. Which country spends MILLIONS of dollars annually on DOMESTIC propoganda(this does not include international propoganda)

6. Which country is NOT listening to thier citizens?

7. Which country allows thier Largest and most powerful industries rape another countries natural resources?

8. Finally, which country has consistently threatened other countries with Nuclear assualt?

I saw a thread that read, "It must suck to be an Iranian ATSER". I have read NUMEROUS threads advocating the bombing or invasion of another NATION...and who is generally behind these threads....AMERICANS.

I love my country and I wish to the Goddess herself that there was something that could be done to stop Washington from doing what its doing but theres not. That being said THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA is the Proverbial Terrorist. We have WMD...we are willing to use WMD.. as evidenced by the language that Washington refuses to remove from thier new "Preemtive Doctrine". So IMHO we are the biggest threat to global and middle east stability. But thats just me...what do YOU think?

El senor pom pom rides again

I was gonna say Isreal myself but you mistake the puppet for the hand that fills it so what can I do.

Mind you I think that Isreal has a right to exist but I am tired of those people running the world with the likelihood that WWIII is just around the corner.

Wars are very profitable and I can see the Rothschilds in London rubbing their hands right now as I type this...

Wow!

It's too bad the US government does little to enforce that former policy of criminalizing sedition like it did back in the World Wars!

I too, agree that this nation USA has its problems, BUT, you can't ignore the obvious. She's got more heart than fault! My country also rebuilds what she's tasked to destroy. I would never rely on her media to ever advertise this, because, unfortunately, its capitalized. Bad news is good news, and good news is boring! Bad news is what gets the ratings, and good ratings make more $$$! I fail to see how people like you who can stretch an agenda so eloquently don't seem to ever make THIS connection!

Obviously, the USA is a bigger threat than Iran in the Middle East because despite Iran's desire to kill Israel and support terrorism, Iran will be the one that gets obliterated in the end. On the other hand, it will be IRAN that brings into the Middle East --MORE AMERICAN PRESENCE!

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Quote from CreeWolfIt's too bad the US government does little to enforce that former policy of criminalizing sedition like it did back in the World Wars!
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I hope you dont mean that I should be in jail for my opinions because that would just be flat out wrong. Regardless of whether or not we like the speech we have to protect it....with very few exceptions...I.E yelling Fire! in a crowded room....
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Quote from CreeWolfI fail to see how people like you who can stretch an agenda so eloquently don't seem to ever make THIS connection!
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I do make this connection...i simply choose to not allow it to be the reason that Mainstream media isnt held accountable for the things they choose to and choose not to report on. I know that bad news sells and that certain news isnt worth putting on the air because people might get bored. However that does not excuse mainstream media from using the Natalie Holloways and hundreds of other Blond Haired white girls to distract us from whats really going on. ANd before the race card gets thrown I am a Caucasian male....and even I have problems with the number of what seem to be Up scale B*%$#Y girls who really dont care about society...you know the Paris Hiltons of the world...regardless of thier economic station... So....im sorry but I do make the connection between money and media...I however choose not to let it be a loop hole for Mainstream Media to skirt accountablity through.

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Quote from CreeWolfObviously, the USA is a bigger threat than Iran in the Middle East because despite Iran's desire to kill Israel and support terrorism, Iran will be the one that gets obliterated in the end. On the other hand, it will be IRAN that brings into the Middle East --MORE AMERICAN PRESENCE!
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Well atleast we agree on one thing....Iran will eventually...either that or syria....cause more American Presence...which is EXACTLY what im AGAINST. The United States of America should not be taking care of other countries problems....we have enough of our own here at home.

Not only that instead of helping stablize the region we have undone fifty years of Multilateral International Cooperation on trying to bring about Middle East Peace...now that just doesnt seem possible....atleast not anytime soon...and I lay the blame of that at the Feet of the White House, The Bush Administration, and the Neocon semi facist group that has GW's ear. Thus Making my country a country that harbors terrorists...PLEASE UN come in and try my leaders for War Crimes. Sanction the American People for the inability or apathy in regards to whom we elect to our positions of power.

What we do is WRONG....

El senor pom pom rides again

[edit on 13-4-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Originally posted by CreeWolf
despite Iran's desire to kill Israel and support terrorism

Sorry but this is crap. Read more and stop believing what you're president and CNN are saying!

Originally posted by CreeWolf
It's too bad the US government does little to enforce that former policy of criminalizing sedition like it did back in the World Wars!

An interesting viewpoint from one supposed to be in the 'land of the free'

I too, agree that this nation USA has its problems, BUT, you can't ignore the obvious. She's got more heart than fault!

The 'Country', ie: the Joe public, maybe. But the executive. I don't think so.

My country also rebuilds what she's tasked to destroy.

Of Course they do. Haliburton et. al. not only profit from weapons and destruction, they also make a tidy sum out of construction. Win-Win for the fat cats.

thats easy one u.s of course..........

Where do some of you morons come from? Have you ever heard of facts? Why do you consistently embrace ignorance when the mission is to deny it? LEARN HISTORY! If any of you bleeding heart liberal idiots wants to debate the issues using facts, historical evidence and BRAIN - let's go! Forget the non-sequiturs; they're unacceptable! The fallacious arguments to support your weak and limp assertions won't cut it either. I am interested in real brain power here - the type where 2 plus 2 equals 4!!!

Some of you brain dead dolts are apparently the product of public indoctrination... er, I meant education, where history isn't merely taught, it's entirely made up! Political discourse isn't encouraged for debate, it's mandated as curriculum. You people make me sick! When those great big mushroom clouds start to rise over the middle east, it won't be from the US - rest assured. Sadly though, you will insist that it is some kind of conspiracy and race to defend Iran. Pity

kozmo

I see you support for Bush is getting to you, I find the thread refreshing and with a good point also.

Wars Are profitable for the elite that has nothing to worry about going into war themselves or how many people wars do take as Casualties.

Is nothing wrong with superpowers trying to influence other countries to become more pliable and agreeable specially when so much oil wealth hides under their sandy lands.

Every war in the past does bring a wave of prosperity for the right people, but for the victims of war it bring nothing but deaths and desperation.

BTW how many times has Iran attack Israel? that US has to get into a conflict because they want to erase Israel from the face of the middle east.

[edit on 14-4-2006 by marg6043]

Quote originally by KozmoThe fallacious arguments to support your weak and limp assertions won't cut it either. I am interested in real brain power here - the type where 2 plus 2 equals 4!!!

And where are you facts that are counter to mine....I dont see them anywhere. All i see is someone who comes out and attacks ME and not my reasons or facts. That to me says you dont have a leg to stand on so you attack me...which seems to be what the Current and some past administrations have done.

But you want facts here are some facts

The FEDERAL Minimum Wage has not been raised since 1996...in that time both the House and the Senate have voted THEMSELVES SIX pay increases.

The average American Family in the 1950's and 60's made more than the Average TWO person working family does today. ANd that Kozmo is information given by the Federal Reserve who keeps track of this. The average american in the 1960's was making approx 9 dollars an hour....not 9 dollars an hour TODAY 9 dollars an hour back then. SO....there you go.

This administration and most of the political power in this country is controlled by BIG BUISNESS. Big buisness wants wages down and prices up.

WAR is also quite profitable. Infact looking at the FEDERAL RESERVE Stats from the post WW2 era....the number of CORPORATE Multimillionaires almost trippled between 1940 and 1950. Haliburton is not just a Bush Admin problem,though they have taken it to new levels, Haliburton was given Billions of Dollars of contracts by the Clinton Admin as well....so once again this is AN AMERICAN problem.

On average the United States has an Armed Conflict every 16 years.

We set up dictators in countries like Liberia. Columbia has seen trillions of dollars to stop a problem we created with the Fallicous WAR ON DRUGS. The CIA and parts of the DEA have funnled billions of dollars in Quote "DRUG MONEY" into other channels for personal gain. Whether it be in property siezed and then sold at HUGE discounts to law enforcement or Villas sold to politicians for ENORMOUS Discounts.

We dictate who can do what and who cant do what. We tell INDIA a known extremist country that its okay to have civilian nuclear tech when we know that they already Nuclear Weapons. Yet we scream MUSHROOM CLOUD when a country who wont play ball the way we want attempts to attain PEACFUL nuclear tech...I believe in INNOCENCE before guilt....they have ATTACKED no one.

So shall I continue Kozmo...do you want more facts that you can say are just bleeding heart liberal Mumbo Jumbo seeing as this is the only real thing you said. Or...would YOU like to realize that maybe your preconcieved notions about this current Adminstrations are not entirely accurate. Are YOU ready to set aside some of your Pundit Paradigms. Or did you not understand what I just said. I attacked no One in my thread. I LOVE my country and would do anything and everything to protect it. Attacking me does not strengthn your case...but what it does quite eloquently show is that like the Forgien policy in this country you would rather attack first and think later.

El senor pom pom rides again



[edit on 14-4-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

The United States is obviously the real danger to the world.

Originally posted by kozmo
Where do some of you morons come from? Have you ever heard of facts? Why do you consistently embrace ignorance when the mission is to deny it? LEARN HISTORY! If any of you bleeding heart liberal idiots wants to debate the issues using facts, historical evidence and BRAIN - let's go!

Very good Kozmo. Clearly your viewpoint is perfectly correct. Why don't you get in touch with admin and tell them to close the forum down as there is clearly nothing to debate.

If not perhaps you should take a deep breath, calm down and 'put your cards on the table' in a more constructive way instead of shouting your mouth off and hurling insults at those who happen to take a different viewpoint.

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
The FEDERAL Minimum Wage has not been raised since 1996...in that time both the House and the Senate have voted THEMSELVES SIX pay increases.

First off, the idea that the minimum wage = more buying power for the poor is false, harmful and a knee jerk reaction. The minimum wage hurts the poor by creating a poverty class. The minimum wage is the federals telling the uneducated poor that they are only worth a certain amount of money. It gives corporations an excuse to keep wages down; after all, why pay more to someone wearing a paper hat than what the government says they are worth?

If the minimum wage works, how about we just raise it to $50 per hour? What’s that? Oh, that’s right, because then NO ONE would have a job. It would follow that because NO ONE had a job that NO ONE would be paying taxes, to include corporations because NO ONE would be buying anything.
Well, that minimum wage increase would really hurt the poor the most, because it is a FACT that most of the poor do not make minimum wage; students and the "retired" make up most of the minimum wage earning population. The poor get their money through welfare programs, and then they spend it on gold teeth and bling-bling rims, "chirp" cell phones and car stereos. Think I am making this up or that I watch too much TV? Go down and work in a housing project for a year (like I did) and you can see why they are really "poor" (I will give you one hint: spending habits .)

So, since you have proven that you don’t like to think past knee jerk reactions, I dont expect you to look murch farther than your own partisan views. All you have to do is listen to the Iranian president talk for a few minutes to realize that although he has not attacked anyone yet, he is PROMMISSING THAT HE WILL. If you don’t like us posturing back then whine about it, because that is all you can do (oh, that’s right, you already did whine about it.)

And you want to know why all you can do is whine about? Because you libs have been fighting so hard to "get the guns" that if you did decide it was time to take a stand you would have to either do it with a sling shot or cross into a free state and pay an extremely exaggerated price that not very many can afford these days.

El senor pom pom rides again

That’s really annoying, BTW.

I advocate raising the minimum wage not so that we have more buying power but so that we have the ability to provide for our children and loved ones.

Secondly Im not Whinning...

Thirdy I know that the spending habbits of the lower class are staggering at best and absolutley retarded at worst. Ive had other threads in regards to that very issue.

Fourth Dont attack me because my information is correct and you dont have a leg to stand on. i didnt attack anyone in this thread...I simply put out what my honest opinion was.

Im sure you are right there with Senator John McCain who believes that Americans Cant pick Lettuce for an Entire season for 50/hour.

Also there is a conspiracy about the buying habits of the lower and middle class and can be explained quite easily by watching the Boob Tube and all of the Unconcience messeging.

History has shown us that when Americans have more money in thier pockets the economy does better because Americans didnt use to be stupid Fiscally. But when 80 percent of Last years Graduating class were unable to pass the Test given the American Credit Card Association on Baisc economics and Credit Card law you know you have a problem.

The problem is not just that Fat Cats in Washington have totally blown off the American people in serach of Higher Corporate Profits, its that the American people dont have enough money to SURVIVE.

I bet you would Beleive, cavscout, in Regans Welfare Queens. Which were proven never to exist.

But if you as you say lower class america is not intellegent enough to keep its own money than why are you soooo opposed to raising the Federal Minimum Wage.

Doyou know what keeps most Americans from going to the polls? Too much work...Im too tired....Im at work. Raise the minimum wage and lower the Maximum Hours allowed in a week at any given job and you are going to have Americans dedicating more time to learning and politics than you do now and thats no Opinion that Political Science and Sociological Fact. SO DONT COME AT ME WITH THAT NEOCON ANTI LIBERAL agenda. I am not evil because Im liberal Im not lazy because Im liberal I AM NOT WHINNING.

So, cavscout, when you have some facts...why dont you come back to this thread with something other than empty logic and personal attacks.

El senor pom pom rides again

BTW I dont care if thats annoying to you Freedom of Speech BABY!!





edited for content that was innappropriate on my part

[edit on 15-4-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

If I responded to every fly-by-night ATS troll that made the same assumptions you do about me I would never have time to engage in intelligent discourse. My story is on ATS and once you are not so green you may stumble upon it.

Just to sum it up for ya real quick I grew up poor, mommy and daddy are still very poor, my wife, 4 children and I are still barely middle class (a far cry from living in our car as we were a few years back.) I spent 4 years in the Army, invaded Iraq with the 2/2 ACR, and hate myself for it.

I don’t support the war or the troops who choose to fight it. I am not a fan of Bush, at all, period. I am not (as you assumed) a Republican; I am a Libertarian, as can be easily deduced by the "miniarchist" title under my handle.

The avatar obviously flew over your head. Yes, she is a good looking woman with gun, but read the statement and you will get message (maybe.)
She is good looking, but if you want her you need her permission, as she is armed and able to defend herself. The gun is an equalizer. It is a statement against victim disarmament laws (see: gun control.)


You said:

To the MODS I have been Flamed by the guy above me several times this is all fair....not to mention I started this thread.

Several times? I do believe this was the first time I have stooped so low. As for you getting to do as you please because you started this thread, well, good luck with that attitude, see ya on the banned list.

Raise the minimum wage and lower the Maximum Hours allowed in a week at any given job and you are going to have Americans dedicating more time to learning and politics than you do now and thats no Opinion that Political Science and Sociological Fact.

See: inflation, taxes.

SO DONT COME AT ME WITH THAT NEOCON ANTI LIBERAL agenda. I am not evil because Im liberal Im not lazy because Im liberal I AM NOT WHINNING.

Hey, sorry there bud, I obviously hurt your feelings. I did not mean to, I am used to dealing with mature people with a little thicker skin. You see, we don’t get very many trolls here on ATS, we tend to attract intellectuals. I just didn’t know how to treat someone of your kind, with your particular special needs. We learn something new every day.

BTW I dont care if thats annoying to you Freedom of Speech BABY!!

There is no free speech in a PRIVATE forum.
I

I

Originally posted by cavscout
The avatar obviously flew over your head. Yes, she is a good looking woman with gun, but read the statement and you will get message (maybe.)
She is good looking, but if you want her you need her permission, as she is armed and able to defend herself. The gun is an equalizer. It is a statement against victim disarmament laws (see: gun control.)

Call it what you will a Gun is a Gun and all a Gun says is that i cannot atriculate myself well enough to get you to change your mind so I will use force.

See: inflation, taxes.

See the fact that without inflation the average American worker brought home between nine and ten dollars an hour in 1960 you dont believe that check out the Federal Reserve stats.

Think I am making this up or that I watch too much TV? Go down and work in a housing project for a year (like I did) and you can see why they are really "poor" (I will give you one hint: spending habits .)

BTW i lived in a housing project. I was a welfare kid. Dont try and make urself feel better cause you worked with the poor. That is admiral that you did...but dont wear it like some kind of badge of honor. Spending habits are not the only thing keeping middle and low class america down. But that is not the purpose of this thread. So please if you have something to say in regards to this topic. Feel free. I am open for debate regardless of whether or not I agree.

El senor pom pom rides again


[edit on 15-4-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom

Originally posted by cavscout
The avatar obviously flew over your head. Yes, she is a good looking woman with gun, but read the statement and you will get message (maybe.)
She is good looking, but if you want her you need her permission, as she is armed and able to defend herself. The gun is an equalizer. It is a statement against victim disarmament laws (see: gun control.)

Call it what you will a Gun is a Gun and all a Gun says is that i cannot atriculate myself well enough to get you to change your mind so I will use force.

Man, if there is one word you want to spell correctly so as not sound like an ass it is articulate. That is OK, I know what you meant.

Oh, sorry, I don’t happen to hold the opinion that a woman who is raped by a horny male pervert who has 100lbs on her and 40% more muscle mass needs to justify not being able to "articulate" herself well enough.

See the fact that without inflation the average American worker brought home between nine and ten dollars an hour in 1960 you don’tt believe that check out the Federal Reserve stats.

Just answer this question: If minimum wage works, why can’t we just make it $100 per hour?

BTW i lived in a housing project. I was a welfare kid. Dont try and make urself feel better cause you worked with the poor. That is admiral that you did...but dont wear it like some kind of badge of honor.

I grew up in a housing project called Oregon City View Manor in Clackamas County Oregon.

I didn’t work "with" the poor. There you go assuming again. I was Housing Authority; I arrested the poor. Still not a badge of honor, just pointing out another assumption that you have made.

But that is not the purpose of this thread. So please if you have something to say in regards to this topic. Feel free.

Hate to be juvenile, but you started it.


Now I am done with this. If you have anything else to say to me, please do it in a U2U, kind of like the one you sent me in apology right before you made your last post.

We could make a 100/hour but then inflation would make the money worthless.

What I am advocating is not 100/hour im advoating a living wage. I live in Flagstaff Az I make 8.50 an hour. I work 45 hours a week and barely make it. My roomate also makes 8.50 an hour and work 55 hours a week. So What i am advocating for is a lil equity. If CEO's can bring home 51 million dollar paychecks for sitting on the Fat ARses I think that the every day average american who picks up after him or takes care of his kids or picks his fruits and vegitables(NOT BLOODY ILLEGALS) should have a decent living wage.

Also Congress has raised thier salaries like i said 6 times since 1996.

But I digress.....the issue here is who is a bigger threat to Global Stability?

In my opinion that is the United States. We run around the world bullying other nations into "cooperating" with us. We set up narco-drug states(Afganistan/Columbia) and then send in the CIA/DEA to clean it up.

Grr i dont know

El senor pom pom rides again

The real evil is ignorence and the ability to blame your enemy for your own faults. (ie Both countries.)

Personly, I think both are a threat to middle east stability. And I will be glad when somebody finds a cheap alternative fual.

As to Cavscout. As a fellow libertarian. I applaud you for your fight agianst both the authoritarian Libs\Cons.

[edit on 15-4-2006 by msnevil]