So OBVIOUS they planted Flight 93 debris it's laughable!, page 3
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reply posted on 14-4-2006 @ 07:00 AM by Valhall
Originally posted by Killtown


Exh. GX-P200068 (intr'd: 04/11/2006)
Photograph of the driver's license of John Talignani found at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed.

www.rcfp.org...


This is odd. This driver's license with this address is no where in Florida's DMV database. Instead, the only driver's license listed (which is the same driver's license number as in the pic - T425473273110) has an address of 305 Ridge Creek Blvd, Ocoee, FL 34761 - WHICH IS NOT A VALID ADDRESS. Further to that, the Florida DMV database shows the driver's license with the Ridge Creek Blvd address to be issued on June 23, 1998.

Florida seems to do everything screwy, so assuming they do something logical like other states probably isn't a good assumption, but I've never been able to get a re-newed driver's license without turning in the old one. One could assume that he lost the old one and then found it later, but it's weird to carry an expired driver's license when you have a valid, new one. But the major point here is that Mr. Talignani does not show up in the Florida database with Huntsman Lane, Port Richey, Fl address ANYWHERE...he only shows up with the Ocoee - NONEXISTENT address.

But to complicate the situation further, John Talignani, according to Jere Longman's Among the Heroes was supposed to be living in Manhattan at the time he boarded Flight 93. So now we have to assume he lost this driver's license (which doesn't even exist in the Florida DMV database), got it renewed (with a Florida address that doesn't exist), and then kept a non-existent, expired Florida driver's license as some sort of souvenir while living in Manhattan.

That's a weird pile of incongruities, now isn't it?


reply posted on 14-4-2006 @ 12:26 PM by Seekerof
The black box recordings for Flight 93 records all the way up to the time that Flight 93 officially crashed at 10:03:09.

Accordingly, in re-re-reading it, there are no given indications that Flight 93 was hit by anything that would have brought it down. Does anyone not think that if the plane had been hit or shot down, at least one of the hijackers would have noticed and/or said something?

10:00:09 – (When they all come, we finish it off.)
10:00:11 – (There is nothing.)
10:00:13 – Unintelligible.
10:00:14 – Ahh.
10:00:15 – I’m injured.
10:00:16 – Unintelligible.
10:00:21 – Ahh.
10:00:22 – (Oh Allah. Oh Allah. Oh gracious.)
10:00:25 – In the cockpit. If we don’t, we’ll die.
10:00:29 – (Up, down. Up, down, in the) cockpit.
10:00:33 – (The) cockpit.
10:00:37 – (Up, down. Saeed, up, down.)
10:00:42 – Roll it.
10:00:55 – Unintelligible.
10:00:59 – (Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.)
10:01:01 – Unintelligible.
10:01:08 – (Is that it? I mean, shall we pull it down?)
10:01:09 – (Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.)
10:01:10 – Unintelligible.
10:01:11 – (Saeed.)
10:01:12 – ... engine ...
10:01:13 – Unintelligible.
10:01:16 – (Cut off the oxygen.)
10:01:18 – (Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen.)
10:01:34 – Unintelligible.
10:01:37 – Unintelligible.
10:01:41 – (Up, down. Up, down.)
10:01:41 – (What?)
10:01:42 – (Up, down.)
10:01:42 – Ahh.
10:01:53 – Ahh.
10:01:54 – Unintelligible.
10:01:55 – Ahh.
10:01:59 – Shut them off.
10:02:03 – Shut them off.
10:02:14 – Go.
10:02:14 – Go.
10:02:15 – Move.
10:02:16 – Move.
10:02:17 – Turn it up.
10:02:18 – (Down, down.)
10:02:23 – (Pull it down. Pull it down.)
10:02:25 – Down. Push, push, push, push, push.
10:02:33 – (Hey. Hey. Give it to me. Give it to me.)
10:02:35 – (Give it to me. Give it to me. Give it to me.)
10:02:37 – (Give it to me. Give it to me. Give it to me.)
10:02:40 – Unintelligible.
10:03:02 – (Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:03 – (Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:04 – (Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:06 – (Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:06 – (Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:07 – No.
10:03:09 – (Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.)
10:03:09 – (Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.)

What the above does indicate to me is that there was a serious struggle going on between them and the passengers prior to the plane crashing, with no verbal indication of the aircraft being taken down.






seekerof

[edit on 14-4-2006 by Seekerof]



reply posted on 14-4-2006 @ 01:24 PM by Seekerof
Originally posted by Griff
Also, I thought the crash time was 10:06 not 10:03. I'm not sure if this has been debunked or not.

Hi Griff.
I am only going by the time data from Flight 93's black box.
Does a black box recorder stop recording prior to an aircraft crashing or after?

Of interest:

"According to the 9/11 Commission Won-Young Kim later retracted his conclusion that Flight 93 crashed at 10:06. The Commission Report states that Flight 93 crashed at 10:03, and provides the following footnote.

"168. Ibid., pp. 23-27. We also reviewed a report regarding seismic observations on September 11, 2001, whose authors conclude that the impact time of United 93 was 10:06:05 am (EDT). Won-Young Kim and G. R. Baum, "Seismic Observations during September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack," spring 2002 (report to the Maryland Department of Natural Resources). But the seismic data on which they based this estimate are far too weak in signal-to-noise ratio and far too speculative in terms of signal source to be used as a means of contradicting the impact time established by the very accurate combination of FDR, CVR, ATC, radar, and impact site data sets. These data sets constrain United 93's impact time to within 1 second, are airplane- and crash-site specific, and are based on time codes automatically recorded in the ATC audiotapes for the FAA centers and correlated with each data set in a process internationally accepted within the aviation accident investigation community. Furthermore, one of the study's principal authors now concedes that "seismic data is not definitive for the impact of UA 93." Email from Won-Young Kim to the Commission," Re: UA Flight 93," July 7, 2004; see also Won-Young Kim, "Seismic Observations for UA Flight 93 Crash near Shanksville, Pennsylvania during September 11, 2001," July 5, 2004.

"All of the sources that the Report cites to support its claim of a crash time of 10:06 are apparently unavailable for public inspection, including Kim's 2004 paper, for which one will search in vain on the web. The " FDR, CVR, ATC, radar, and impact site data sets" cited by the Report all remain unavailable to the public. This contrasts with Kim and Baum's 2002 paper, which documents its case for the 10:06 crash time."

Source1
Source2





seekerof

[edit on 14-4-2006 by Seekerof]


reply posted on 14-4-2006 @ 06:28 PM by Valhall
Originally posted by Seekerof

Hi Griff.
I am only going by the time data from Flight 93's black box.
Does a black box recorder stop recording prior to an aircraft crashing or after?

Of interest:

"According to the 9/11 Commission Won-Young Kim later retracted his conclusion that Flight 93 crashed at 10:06. The Commission Report states that Flight 93 crashed at 10:03, and provides the following footnote.

"168. Ibid., pp. 23-27. We also reviewed a report regarding seismic observations on September 11, 2001, whose authors conclude that the impact time of United 93 was 10:06:05 am (EDT). Won-Young Kim and G. R. Baum, "Seismic Observations during September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack," spring 2002 (report to the Maryland Department of Natural Resources). But the seismic data on which they based this estimate are far too weak in signal-to-noise ratio and far too speculative in terms of signal source to be used as a means of contradicting the impact time established by the very accurate combination of FDR, CVR, ATC, radar, and impact site data sets. These data sets constrain United 93's impact time to within 1 second, are airplane- and crash-site specific, and are based on time codes automatically recorded in the ATC audiotapes for the FAA centers and correlated with each data set in a process internationally accepted within the aviation accident investigation community. Furthermore, one of the study's principal authors now concedes that "seismic data is not definitive for the impact of UA 93." Email from Won-Young Kim to the Commission," Re: UA Flight 93," July 7, 2004; see also Won-Young Kim, "Seismic Observations for UA Flight 93 Crash near Shanksville, Pennsylvania during September 11, 2001," July 5, 2004.

"All of the sources that the Report cites to support its claim of a crash time of 10:06 are apparently unavailable for public inspection, including Kim's 2004 paper, for which one will search in vain on the web. The " FDR, CVR, ATC, radar, and impact site data sets" cited by the Report all remain unavailable to the public. This contrasts with Kim and Baum's 2002 paper, which documents its case for the 10:06 crash time."

Source1
Source2





seekerof

[edit on 14-4-2006 by Seekerof]


So what are you trying to say here? It's nice to read the quote that seems to say two different things, but what are you trying to say?

No, a recorder should not stop recording prior to a crash unless the power is disrupted - either by crash or other means. Two different seismic groups (including the seismic group commissioned by the Pentagon) established the crash time at 10:06:05. Eye witnesses put the time of the crash at 10:06 (accounts reported within hours of the event). I'm confused by the fact your quote states none of the 10:06 documents are publically available, but at the same time says the 2002 document stating the 10:06 crash time is available.

[edit on 4-14-2006 by Valhall]
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