The Pledge of Allegience...Unconstitutional????

I am not sure that this is exactly the right place to post this, however, in my opinion this is a huge political scandal. This was taken directly from the Fox News Webpage found here: www.foxnews.com...



This absolutely blows my mind! How is it possible for this to happen?!?!? The Pledge of Allegiance?? The Suppreme Court wants to take the fundamentals of our country and do away with the Promise of Patriotism?? What are these peoples problems??? We may as well rule the constitution un-constitutional...seeing as how we are a "free" country, how can we have a constitution to govern our people?? They aren't free...it is hindering their freedom....?? C'mon... I think the line has been crossed and this is outrageous.... I am sorry if I come off as upset, but I am. It offends me as a Patriot, and an American to think that something like this could even be an issue with the Supreme Court. Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts and speculations on this. I am not necessarily expecting everyone to agree with me...but I refuse to believe I am the only one who feels this way...?? Let me know!

As I believe it, the write of the Pledge of Allegiance was a true believer in democracy. He didn't write the phrase, "In God We Trust." That phrase was addded by Eisenhower during the Red Scare.

A brief history of the Pledge can be found here:

history.vineyard.net...

As I recall my high-school days, we learned about the separation of church and state and what was originally intended by that statement. If you look at the history of why the Pilgrims moved out of England and into America, it was because the Government of England had ruled that there was to be one church of the state...the Church of England. It was ruled to be the only church allowed to be attended. The original separation of church and state was to keep the government out of religion (they could not say you can/can't believe certain doctrines)...not to keep religion out of the government...!!

At last another person who has actually read the Consititution and read the history behind it!

If you take things out of context, they become distorted.
-BWBT-

It's about time!!!

Now, if they can take that crap phrase off the money.....



Not entirely accurate... They also saw how controlling religious institutions could be, in government, economics, etc. when the state sponsored one religion over another.

America is a melting pot of many beliefs and cultures. To espouse one religion over another shows direct state sponsorship, and yes, is Unconstitutional.

It isn't the Pledge that's under attack, it's the phrase (that was added by the way, as others have mentioned). It's not the decaying of America, instead, it's going back to the original ideals and the original Pledge.

[Edited on 14-10-2003 by Gazrok]

BWBT -
I have long shared your sentiment. I found it extremely shocking the number of people who could not accurately read and interpret the constitution in the context in which it was originally written. It is ignorance that allows anyone to be taken advantage of! The American public needs to wake up and stop taking everything they hear and accepting it and start to question it and look into things!! For instance:

There is a law stating that there is to be no prayer in school. (Not neccessarily in those words)
How did this law come to pass??
By the ruling of the Supreme Court.
According to the Constitution, who has the power to make laws??
NOT the Judicial Branch!!

Far too long has the government been trampling the Constitution and twisting its meanings and foundational fundamentals to use it for its own selfish gain! (*In my opinion*)

I hope you have not forgotten whos money you have, it is not the U.S. Governments money, these rules do not apply, simply the money you hold it a private banks tender, the Federal Reserve's. damn feds, they own US. (Fight the power, use alternate tender (i try to use gold))

Gazrok -
You have a valid point. I hope that my points aren't taken as me wanting the government to support a certain belief/religion. I am absolutely for letting people decide what they will/won't believe. That is absolutely fine! I am merely trying to show how the Government runs a consistent double-standard. The topic of religion just happens to be the easiest to make the point with since it seems to be a repeating pattern.

Hehe...ok, I get ya...



Touche'!!! Good point.... Well, one can hope though, eh?

This is nuts. It is perfectly fine. This is all about the God haters and their war on the Chirstians. The words "Under God" and "In God Wwe Trust" are not saying go worship God,nor does it say the Chirsitan God. By God it means all Gods and how you interpret God wheter it be a him or a she or an it. It is all because the word "God" is on it and people think it means the Chirstian one. I bet that if it said "Allah" or "Buddah" people would not have a problem. A perfect example is this. Near where I live in some school they allow the Muslims to have their own prayer time and their own prayer room,but the Chirstians,Jews,Hindus etc can't pray but no one seems to give a rat's ass about that. It would be totaly differnt if they were Jews or Catholics.
We are turning in a Commie state.

BTW Gaz if you don't like seeing "In God We Trust" on our money send it to me.

I find it disturbing that the government can mandate that certain people cannot hold prayer times, yet others can... The government is obviously setting a double-standard for themselves.

If our government would just stop trying to please everyone, abide by their own 'accepted' standards (The Constitution) then they would have both legs to stand on! How can the government claim that all people are equal...with equal rights, treatment, etc... yet set one standard for one group of people and another for others??

This is what I dislike the most about our government. Why should I give up my rights as an American just so they can be given to someone else??

What money? Oh, you mean the corporate scrip they've issued into circulation?

This is why I call it "corporate scrip"...It belongs to the *banking industry*.


This can be blamed mostly on the substandard schools...Which are subsidized by the government, I might add. Most of the schools may teach about the Constitution but (at least the ones I attended) didn't provide much "context" to go with the lessons on the Constitution itself. They failed to include a lot of the additional philosophy & background discussions that the Founding Fathers wrote about during that time period.

The real issue here is not whether or not god is on everything. The issue is that some low life with nothing better to do is trying to become famous so they are going to bitch about everything they can till they acheive there goal. For the record I am an atheist in a family full of very religous people and just because I don't believe there is a god doesn't mean I need to cause problems with people who do. Besides god can be anything whether it be a superior being or a toaster. If you feel that you can't handle saying anything that has to do with the worship of god then why don't you assume that you are god. Then you would be worshiping yourself. God is not a religion so I don't see how it can be unconstitutional.

No...same problem. "God" means specifically the Christian or Jewish God...to imply otherwise is a cop-out. Just as Allah refers to Islam, and Buddah refers to Buddhism... The point really is...the phrase wasn't in the pledge in the first place and there is no reason to keep it there. By pledging allegiance to my country, I also have to pledge allegiance to some phony baloney God that I do not believe in??? No, there is a problem with that...one should have nothing to do with the other....

Dude did you completely miss what I wrote. Besides Allah is a god. Just a different word for the same thing. GOD IS NOT RELIGOUS

Gazrok does have a point. When one capitalizes the word God, it is usually to imply the Christian/Jewish/Hebrew God. Uncapitalized would imply a god of choices. At the same time, Gazrok, I don't think anyone would take offense if you choose not to use the phrase "under God" when reciting the Pledge. It is my belief that when the phrase was added, it was added with the belief of the Founding Fathers in mind.

I would have no problem if the Supreme Court would rule that it is the student's choice whether or not to use the phrase in question during the recital, however, I do not believe that they should look at taking the Pledge out of the school entirely. To do so is extremely un-patriotic!!

We live in this country purely by choice. No one forces us to stay. We live here enjoying the freedoms that many countries covet. The least we can do is show our patriotism by pledging allegience to the flag of our nation. I think if someone has a problem doing so, they should feel free to leave! I for one am proud to pledge my allegience to the country in which I live. Otherwise, I would leave.

You also have a very valid point. As you and more specifically JediMaster said, the phrase in the Pledge and on our money does not imply that you must worship/or believe any particular god.

If they (Supreme Court) are going to say that the Pledge is unconstitutional because the students have to say "under God", then they may as well begin arresting people who have any kind of religious or anti-religious bumper-stickers, pins, clothes, etc... for being un-constitutional as well.

I think the Supreme Court is getting very close to intruding on the side of freedom of speech. It all goes back to the Supreme Court mis-interpreting the Constitution as it was originally intended to be interpreted, and making laws through their rulings. (which I think I pointed out earlier is un-constitutional in itself)

To press the point even a little further, I think we should have a vote, voice, and choice concerning our Supreme Court members.

There is a reason why no other office in the 3 governmental branches has life-long positions... Why should I have to adopt the personal belief of the Supreme Court??

You know...according to a posting I read in another forum, approximately 92% of Americans believe in God...WTF has happened to our system.

This is supposed to be government for the people, by the people. Why are we even debating the issue of "One Nation Under God?" I can´t friggin believe our government/judicial are actually considering removing or "editing" the pledge of allegiance out of our public schools. I´ll bet they´ll end up replacing it with a pledge to the UN within 10 years. I´m sure the next BS/PC, leftist "cleansing of identity" effort will be the National Anthem.

If we let these freaks continue to f--k with our system and constitution, what's left of us will all be living in thatched huts in the very near future. Most likely, thatched huts behind barbed wire with multi-national, AK-47 toting soldiers to keep us company.

It seems that there are a minority of bad apples that have managed to take hold of our country (and I´m not speaking of Bush), and we need to do something fast to get them out of office, and bring our country back to reality. When is the populous gonna wake up and take action? We continue to vote these people into office, and we have no idea who they are anymore.

So much friggin apathy it´s driving me nuts!

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by Baerwolfe]

My 2 cents.

Do not remove the pledge altogether, but remove the "under god" line.

#1 (as already mentioned) it was added, so it can easily be removed.
#2 Separation of church and state should mean total separation. Not partial
#3 Again, there are many religions. The phrase, with capitalized G, is the christian god. This is (to me) a way to start kids out as a Christian before they have the capacity to decide what spiritual beliefs they want. I am not a god hater. I am happy for all in whatever faith they choose. My family is christian, I have left that part of my life behind as I used to be (but only because that was what I was taught) Now that I have learned and found my own way, I know that no one is wrong in thier beliefs. We need to recognize that there are many faiths, and not make children pledge to a flag under a certain god, especially if it is not their god.

The pledge is fine, but with that one little thing in there, it make separation of church and state non existent.

I hope I don't owe any one change from that 2 cents.

Sorry, I had to get that out of my system...Now that I'm a little calmer...

Our country was founded on judeo christian principals. Our constitution was drafted accordingly. True, there needs to be a separation of church and state, but our country's laws are based on God's laws (at least they were originally). The freedoms we enjoy in America are because of those laws. Just because we acknowledge God, does not mean we are forcing all to accept Him in the Judeo Christian sense. It simply means that He, and his laws, are what guide us and keep us whole. They are the reason We Are! Also, an overwhelming majority of the population believe in God, and the majority should be the deciding factor here. Why in the hell should the majority change their very identity to satisfy the whim of a very very small minority (in this case - Atheists). This attempt to remove God from the public view is very dangerous, and if the Supreme Court decides the Pledge to be "unconstitutional," I firmly believe that this could explode....

As soon as we remove the word God from the Pledge, the dollar, and everything else He is noted on (which WILL be the next step), we have removed our country's identity and the moral high-ground we were intended to represent. Once this occurs, we open the door to the end of democracy (I think this door has already been opened, but that's another discussion entirely).

Come to think of it, I almost hope the justices rule the Pledge unconstitutional....This might just be the slap our country needs to wake up. Then again, could it be an intentional slap???



[Edited on 15-10-2003 by Baerwolfe]