Originally posted by golemina
>The body is naturally in a slightly acidic state.
Au contraire. Test the saliva of a healthy child.

Versus of course healthy adults...

Versus of course very sick adults.

Be sure to share your results with us. It's always good to get feedback.

I'd be glad to share the "results" with you. Saliva is not an interstitial fluid. In fact, your mouth is considered and external structure, as it is simply a pocket created by the ingression of endodermal mesenchyme during development. The saliva simply breaksdowns soluble molecules a little and helps liquify some compounds. If you look at interstitial fluid, especially blood and lymph as well as fluid surrounding muscles, the body is naturally slightly acidic. This is due to the carbonic acid - carbonate buffer we have in our blood. Evolution is our friend .

>Also, can you please refer to a study which proves the link between glucosamine (an acid) and arthritis?

Proves... as in offer 'proof'? That sounds like an absolute. That's not the way it works.

In fact, I would venture to guess in all things medical that there is no such thing as proof. You don't have to look any farther than the MDs chemotherapy treatment for cancer. I only know of ONE person that has ever survived chemo. They were never referred to as 'cured' (an absolute)... It was more along the lines of 'in remission'.

To the contrary (the literal translation of your French, hehe), most medical procedures and treatments are the product of hundred of studies, most of which are STILL the subject of testing and experiments. Why do you think we doctors are required to attend at least 25 conferences per year in our field? Medicine is always changing, and even something I learn in the wards today that we take for granted could be shown to be less effective than another method tomorrow. I have yet to see any studies related to homeopathy that have gone through the same rigors as allopathic methods. Ok, so you one person who was diagnosed with cancer, started chemotherapy, and survived. Now, how many cancer patients do you know? I'll be generous and say 10. That's a fairly small sample size compared to those of the NIH. IHO, CDC, etc. don't you think?

Also, it's not glucosamine vs arthritis. It's more like arthritis and acidic...

I know you're referring to arthritis versus acidity, I understand that. What you aren't understanding is that glucosamine is and acid and ingesting more of it will only serve to make your body chemistry more acidic, if only slightly.

Have you ever looked at homeopathy, Bls4doc?

Are you kidding? Please, come visit me in Firenze. You can't go a block without seeing a gypsy hovel or shop selling this herb or that. Most of them are nonsense and have little to no science behind them. There are some homeopathic method which I feel are effective, but that comprise about 1% of the field of homeopathy and are usually used in allopathic medicine as well, i.e. supportive therapy, hydration, superdose vitamins.


~Mariella

That was McCoy's take on '20th Century medicine'.

>I'd be glad to share the "results" with you. (...)

Geez, Bls4doc, it's NOT that hard a question. Find the time, test a group somewhat representative of the group I gave you.

A healthy child, a healthy adult, and an adult NOT in good health.

Again... I ask you to 'Be sure to share your results with us'.

Let me let you in on a little secret Bls4doc...

True knowledge tends to make things simplier... NOT more complicated.

>To the contrary (...)

I'm sorry what was that? I dozed off...

People that seem to like to engage in the art of puffing tend to really bore me.

10? Well then you would be wrong...

Tell me Bls4doc...

In your opinion, what is the difference between doctors killing people by the millions with an insane cancer treatment that simply does NOT work and the doctors performing human experiments in the Nazi concentration camps?

Go spend two weeks... just 14 days in the cancer wards of ANY major metropolitan hospital. Start your own ad hoc tabulations. Then come back and share your results with us.

Then you'll have something interesting to talk about when you attend 'at least 25 conferences per year in (y)our field'.

Who knows? You might even get a survivor!

>I know you're referring to arthritis versus acidity, I understand that. What you aren't understanding is that glucosamine is and acid and ingesting more of it will only serve to make your body chemistry more acidic, if only slightly.

Oh no... Not more acid!!! Stop eating your oranges children... Bls4doc says they will make you more acid.

>Are you kidding? Please, come visit me in Firenze. You can't go a block without seeing a gypsy hovel or shop selling this herb or that. Most of them are nonsense and have little to no science behind them. There are some homeopathic method which I feel are effective, but that comprise about 1% of the field of homeopathy and are usually used in allopathic medicine as well, i.e. supportive therapy, hydration, superdose vitamins.

Nonsense? I think you've confused 'science' with healing.

You are more interested in making the world conform to your medical model, than making your medical model conform to the world.

And THAT in a nutshell is why MDs are typically so inept.

I have to share an anecdote with you... Yesterday, we had an autistic child say his first words! We solved the problem with his brain, by solving the problem with his intestines.

Just some more of that good old homeopathic nonsense...

Take care Bls4doc!

(Man does this 3000 character limit... )

[edit on 25-4-2006 by golemina]

Originally posted by golemina
Geez, Bls4doc, it's NOT that hard a question. Find the time, test a group somewhat representative of the group I gave you.

A healthy child, a healthy adult, and an adult NOT in good health.

Again... I ask you to 'Be sure to share your results with us'.

Let me let you in on a little secret Bls4doc...

True knowledge tends to make things simplier... NOT more complicated.

Golemina, I think you're misunderstanding my post. Saliva has nothing to do with your body being acidotic or alkaline...it is considered an external fluid. If you want to test for pH, you would need to test blood and other interstitial fluids.

>To the contrary (...)

I'm sorry what was that? I dozed off...

I'll just assume that's your way of admitting you don't have any argument against when I said.

In your opinion, what is the difference between doctors killing people by the millions with an insane cancer treatment that simply does NOT work and the doctors performing human experiments in the Nazi concentration camps?

The difference is that there are people who survive chemotherapy all the time and go on to live long lives. Yes, chemo is rough on the body, but, as I said, many people survive it and are better off than if the cancer were left untreated. Do you think a mother would refuse chemotherapy if it meant being with their children another 10 or 15 years?

Go spend two weeks... just 14 days in the cancer wards of ANY major metropolitan hospital. Start your own ad hoc tabulations. Then come back and share your results with us.

I'm a medical student, golemina. I spent 8 weeks in an oncology rotation at the Careggi Hospital in Firenze. My best estimate would be that, of the younger patients I met, probably about three quarters of them responded well enough to go home again. Of the middle aged patients, probably about half were able to return home after treatment. The older set, older meaning 60+ years, very few received chemotherapy. No sense in giving someone that is already frail or ailing something that may be too much of a stress on their systems. Their thyroids are already calcifying.

Oh no... Not more acid!!! Stop eating your oranges children... Bls4doc says they will make you more acid.

So, are you making fun of your own theory now? It was you, after all, who was preaching a diet low in acids.

And THAT in a nutshell is why MDs are typically so inept.

You're right, we're all inept. That's why we're in such a high demand. All those patients we're killing every day.

I have to share an anecdote with you... Yesterday, we had an autistic child say his first words! We solved the problem with his brain, by solving the problem with his intestines.

You do know that austistic children often can speak, right? Autism is a spectrum disorder, some are less effected than others. I've met several highly functional autistic patients.

If you are so dead set on furthering the popularity of alternative medicine, golemina, perhaps you should be less concentrated on negative campaigning against MDs, and focus more on positive campaigning for your cause. People are much more receptive to kindness, provable studies, and compassion, as opposed to anecdotes and abrasiveness.

~Mariella

>Golemina, I think you're misunderstanding my post. Saliva has nothing to do with your body being acidotic or alkaline...it is considered an external fluid. If you want to test for pH, you would need to test blood and other interstitial fluids.

External fluid? Truly amusing.

Are you even really a doctor?

Your view of the human body and medicine stands on its head. You view the human body as a collection of subsystems to be medicated as MDs are won't to do, instead of a human body that contains subsystems that MUST be treated as a whole.

If THAT wasn't bad enough, you seem to demonstrate an absolute contempt of any concept/idea not found in your CULT of 'medical' science.

What you parrot has no relationship to science, much less healing...

>I'll just assume that's your way of admitting you don't have any argument against when I said.
Nah, I was stating that you are puffing pure nonsense.

In case it slipped your mind the topic on this thread is that DRUG COMPANIES are fabricating diseases purely for huge profits, by taking advantage of the gullible, the vulnerable, and the trusting.

You seem to list those agencies as somehow validating the fantasyland version of medicine you're selling. I will spell it out for you... those agencies are ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT and have no credibility.

>The difference is that there are people who survive chemotherapy all the time and go on to live long lives. Yes, chemo is rough on the body, but, as I said, many people survive it and are better off than if the cancer were left untreated. Do you think a mother would refuse chemotherapy if it meant being with their children another 10 or 15 years?

>I'm a medical student, golemina. I spent 8 weeks in an oncology rotation at the Careggi Hospital in Firenze. My best estimate would be that, of the younger patients I met, probably about three quarters of them responded well enough to go home again. Of the middle aged patients, probably about half were able to return home after treatment. The older set, older meaning 60+ years, very few received chemotherapy. No sense in giving someone that is already frail or ailing something that may be too much of a stress on their systems. Their thyroids are already calcifying.

Your anecdotal recounting of has no crediblity.

Your glowing accounts of how chemotherapy is such a blessing to everyone lucky enough to receive it as a treatment is one again substituting a marketing glossy perception in the place of a very ugly reality.

>> Oh no... Not more acid!!! Stop eating your oranges children... Bls4doc says they will make you more acid.

>So, are you making fun of your own theory now? It was you, after all, who was preaching a diet low in acids.

Nah, more like making fun of your apparent lack of understanding of the basics of nutrition, digestion, anatomy, etc...

>> I have to share an anecdote with you... Yesterday, we had an autistic child say his first words! We solved the problem with his brain, by solving the problem with his intestines.

>You do know that austistic children often can speak, right? Autism is a spectrum disorder, some are less effected than others. I've met several highly functional autistic patients.

Please! You're going to seriously cause me to hurt myself laughing!!!

>If you are so dead set on furthering the popularity of alternative medicine, golemina, perhaps you should be less concentrated on negative campaigning against MDs, and focus more on positive campaigning for your cause. People are much more receptive to kindness, provable studies, and compassion, as opposed to anecdotes and abrasiveness.

While you expose exactly how little you know about autism/alternative medicine with every statement you make... If you ever come down out of those ivory towers and REALLY investigate homeopathy, you would find it's more like magic and does more than contradicts your arcane views on medicine/human body... it basically shatters your reality context.

The faux conflict you wish to fabricate (kinda fitting considering the topic ), really only exists in your head.

I can only wish you and yours only the very best...

Your medical heretic friend!
golem

[edit on 25-4-2006 by golemina]