It must suck to be an Iranian ATSer now (hell, this probably goes for all other Iranians...)

Originally posted by Amethyst
If there are any Iranians reading this, I hope they know that I wish our government would just leave Iran alone. We've done more than enough damage to Iraq.

It's none of our business what another nation does within its own borders!

Tell you what, I'm pretty well fed up with Bushco's posturing and warmongering. I'm not so much anti-war as against unnecessary, unconstitutional wars!

I dunno. I find this war necessary, but for different reasons. I feel the only way to make America better and for us to have reality strike us is to get hurt.

Its sick of me to think like this, I'm a terrible person because of it. But in order to build up muscle, you gotta destroy some muscle first, right?

That was well put BT! Of course war can and will be discussed here on ATS and who knows maybe even good and understanding may come of the discuussions. Its just the posts by people who outright just say nuke-em , blow 'em off the map. this is totally the wrong way to go on with the discussions of war, I mean come on people wars kill and destroy and these are irreversible actions. Lets get real and quit being so ignorant about such things as war, and wiping out entire countries just because we feel we are able to do so. One day we just may come up against a country who might surprise us and reverse the tables, you just never know.

Fight a war and then come back and see if maybe your thoughts on war change, that is if you come back.

[edit on 11-4-2006 by tracer]

[edit on 11-4-2006 by tracer]

I don't think that people here hate the Iranian people, just the nuts that run the country. Just before the Iraq war, I think that it was Dan Rather was doing a report in Iran and Iraq, I saw an Iranian woman come up to him and asked him to ask the U.S. to invade their country too and kick the politicians out. She said that was what the Iranian people wanted. I don't know if there is a link, but I saw it on tv.

Mod Edit: Deny Ignorance eh?

[edit on 4/12/06 by FredT]

Originally posted by MBF
I don't think that people here hate the Iranian people, just the nuts that run the country. Just before the Iraq war, I think that it was Dan Rather was doing a report in Iran and Iraq, I saw an Iranian woman come up to him and asked him to ask the U.S. to invade their country too and kick the politicians out. She said that was what the Iranian people wanted. I don't know if there is a link, but I saw it on tv.

Well,

I could say thing about the US. I would LOVE to have another country kick out Bush and friends and all the other corrupt politicians, but that's only on the surface. Judging from what's happened in Iraq, that invasion would not be as good of an idea, especially if things would be worse off after the invasion. I wonder if that woman feels the same way now...

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
I hope YOU BURN IN HELL. I say that because as a non beleiver that's where you beleive I go and belong. Usually I wouldnt wish people to burn in hell but an eye for an eye.

So BURN IN HELL.

[edit on 11-4-2006 by ImplementOfWar]

That's the most CHILDISH post I've ever seen... and eye for an eye?! What, are we all in 2nd-grade again?!?!

GWB and the white house have to do what they are told and Tel Aviv says go and bomb Iran. They are the slaves to the masters that are big money. Funny but big money often don't even pay tax? Go figure that one out man.

Originally posted by firebat

That's the most CHILDISH post I've ever seen... and eye for an eye?! What, are we all in 2nd-grade again?!?!

FB did you think we would have people in political office like we have now without having people like that to enable them to do what is currently being attempted?


Pie

Is this a switch or normal? Our politicians here in the US are saying they are trying and actually are trying to use diplomacy. The people going off talking about nukes and war are here and in the media. The last thing I heard about the actual people of Iran was that many do not like their government and that they like whatever their government doesn't. Guess which country their government doesn't like besides Israel? I heard there are many US supporters in Iran. However I don't know how big a group this is and I don't propose a war to liberate anyone. I believe the major concern is that Iran appears to want nukes and supports terrorism and may supply terrorists who may try to make it here. Of course that is just speculation on my part.

I really do not want any war and I believe all of this war talk is overdone. If you ignore the religion aspect, I don't believe Iranians are that different from Americans.

Iranian ATS'ers will be just fine. People forget how resilient the Iranian people are. For centuries in fact they have shown the trait and the knack for making the best of the worst and moving on.

How do I know? Let me tell you a small story. There was this kid, who grew up in California. His dad was Iranian and after his arrival here in the United States circa 1956 found himself at the University of Kansas (Go Jayhawks) studing Civil Eng. He met an girl from Iowa and they were soon married. They went on to have 2 children and indeed eventualy worked for the US Navy doing stuff that to this day he cannot or be willing to discuss. Life was good till about 1979. Iran underwent the revolution that US had precipitated with Operation AJAX and replaced a democratialy elected leader with the Shah. This Iranian (long a citizen) and his family in an upper middle class neighborhood was subjected to a level of racism and hate they had only read about in history books. Cars were vandalized, An American flag was removed from thier hose on the 4th of July, a neighbor circulated a petition around the neighborhood demanding ALL Iranians be deported regardless of citizenship. For his son, physical and verbal attacks were the norn and it culminated on the day of the Desert One fiasco. He was sent home after the school called home stating they could not quarrentee his safety........................

In time the taunting, the threats, the abuse, and the vandalism faded, but the memories remain fresh.

Iranians be they on ATS or elsewhere will survive as they have for centuries. This too shall pass. It did for me in 1979.



[edit on 4/12/06 by FredT]

Hell On ATS

With regard to certain um, difficulties earlier in the thread, I think it would be best for members not to condemn one another to Hell, and leave that to professionals.

As for being an Iranian ATSer, I imagine that could be difficult, and I certainly would not blame any of our Iranian members for being concerned right now.

These are difficult times.

However, any citizen of any nation who wishes to be a member of AboveTopSecret.com is welcome to do so, provided he or she abides by the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

It is the "law of our land". Abide by it, and the staff will do everything we can to ensure that you are treated fairly, and that your opinion can be heard.

An expansion of war....and we're all screwed...it doesn't matter who you are...I respect everyone and everyone else should....It's not about Iran and nukes...keep repeating that....it's about the globalists...And what the hell kinda title for a topic is this anyways? It doesn't suck for Iranians...You think they freaking care...They're a lot more brave then other people just sitting on their ass talking about whos gonna crush who next. Any person willing to die for what they believe, deserves respect. The Iranians new potential war was coming the second Baghdad was bombed....

The Iranians have a history of defiance going back to World War 2, and I don't mean that in a bad way. But the powers have consistently had a problem controlling them. There was the 1941 Anglo-Russian invasion, The 1953 coup, I heard that even the shah had some problems with the west before his downfall and now this.

Originally posted by Amethyst


It's none of our business what another nation does within its own borders!

I was re-reading this thread and, for some reason, this statement literally jumped out at me.

On the surface, this statement rings true. It is none of our business what another country does within its own borders, right? Of course not! We should just mind our own business. We've got plenty of problems right here in Canada, The United States or Great Britain. Right?

What if you knew of a country that culturally, historically, or for religious reasons suppressed their women? Forget about giving women the right to vote or a voice. What if you knew of a country that performed female castration?

What if you knew of a country that harbored, participated or otherwise turned a blind eye to trafficking in human beings -- slaves. It's hard to believe but human slavery still exists.

What if you knew of a country that practiced genocide? You know, the deliberate and concerted effort to kill every man woman and child belonging to a particular race, religion, culture or heritage? It happened, most notably in World War II. It happened before It has happened since. It is still happening today. You would think that someone would do something.

What if you knew of a country that was suffering from a severe drought or famine. Tens of thousands were dying from dehydration or from starvation. Remember Biafra or Ethiopia? It's happened before and, again, it's still happening.

What if you knew of a country that had been devastated by earthquakes, tsunami or volcanic activity. Let's throw in severe weather like Hurricanes, tornadoes or damaging winds (that promote, for example, forest or brush fires) that endanger tens of thousands of lives. This certainly is nothing new and we know that it happens periodically.

What if you knew of a country that was, seemingly, planning to attack another nation? This certainly is not an unusual occurrence, is it? It seems to happen with greater regularity than "bad weather". But what if you knew of country that, for all intents and purposes, was preparing to attack and annihilate another country? What if the leader of that country publicly announced his desire and intention to do so. What if all outward indications were indicative of the preparation to do just that? But, again, it really isn't any of our business what happens in another country, is it?

On the surface, one would probably accept, as truth, that it really isn't any of our business what goes on in another country. After all, we all have plenty of problems in our own respective countries. Right?

What strikes me about the statement is that it is one that we have all probably expressed at one time or another but it is a statement that we have all, most likely refuted as well. It's because we are entering the "grey area".
Collectively we set degrees or establish standards. That is to say, it might not be any of our business what goes on in another country except when it scores "eight out of ten" on a checklist of criteria before "we", collectively feel that we must act regardless that "it is none of our business".

Like I said, it's a "grey area". There are no patent answers, plenty of moral ones. But again, collective morality "kicks in" according to a checklist of priorities. Thousands of women get "castrated" and thousands of human beings are sold into a lifetime of bondage but our the score card of our moral outrage and our collective desire to "do something" enters into play when we cannot believe that tsunamis have destroyed tourist resorts for next years planned winter holiday.

We already know that, collectively, we find genocide intolerable when it happens in the proximity of Western Europe. I guess stopping religious and cultural genocide is more worthwhile of response when it happens in your own neighborhood -- especially when it happens among people of your own race. That's only natural, right? It must be. Maybe Africa, for example, is entitled to their sovereignty and maybe we are so moral that we respect "their" right to genocide? Is it because that they are black? But maybe this has nothing to do with color....after all, it's a grey area.

There are so many "grey areas" that I can understand how people can get become confused. Our moral compass, collectively and individually, can go "off kilter". We have thousands of posters expressing that we should "nuke" Iran. That Tehran should be turned into a parking lot is the sort of off-handed remark that I might readily find as an answer to what some might perceive as an insurmountable problem. If the answer wasn't presented in such a "flippant" manner, it might be more palatable and even be considered more "reasonable". After all, a serious argument could be made for a military intervention if only there wasn't such a "wide-toothed grin" and a sense of "glassy- eyed" thirst for televised action embedded
in these justifications for missiles to fly.

But just to explore that "grey area", I can also understand why people can feel that there must "always be" a moral solution -- a non violent solution -- to this problem. Because to think otherwise is, frankly, "unthinkable". Surely "reason will prevail". From one perspective, it is easier to ignore the man who says he wants to kill someone for whom he has espoused an undying hatred. And one certainly wants to ignore the situation when that man goes about arming himself -- getting a gun, for example. After all, it's really none of my business what that man does, right?

Damn, this "grey zone". Why can't things be more 'clear-cut'?

[edit on 4/12/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

Originally posted by FredT
Iranians be they on ATS or elsewhere will survive as they have for centuries. This too shall pass. It did for me in 1979.



[edit on 4/12/06 by FredT]

If you are who I think you're referring to...

You've come a long way, baby. Good going.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where politics and military power are king. One mistake and the entire country of Iran could be in flames.

Originally posted by MBF
I don't think that people here hate the Iranian people, just the nuts that run the country.

And we don't have nuts and psychos running OUR country?

Nation-building is unconstitutional (and therefore illegal), that's why I'm against it btw. I'm an isolationist. I'm against NAFTA, CAFTA, and all the other free-trade nonsense.

I say disband the UN and let each SOVEREIGN nation work out its OWN problems! If Israel and Iran want to mix it up, let them! Let THEM duke it out--why sacrifice our troops?

It's been a while since I bothered with the glee full slavering 'war! war! war! nonsense about Iran.
I'm bored with the silly and continual rehashing of any story going in the hope of 'proving' war is both justified and/or necessary or imminent.

Nevermind that 'enrichment' does not automatically mean nuclear weapons or weapons grade materials for that matter.
(there is such a thing as LEU for power production, which is what has just happened, and HEU for weapons, but hey, who cares about that kind of - vital - detail, eh?)

Nevermind that 'enrichment' is not actually in breech of any agreement Iran has signed up to (it is merely against a recent "call" from the UNSC.)

Nevermind that Iran remains years away from a nuclear weapon (even if they are trying to make one).

Nevermind that there is still absolutely no direct evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapon/program whatsoever.

Have a 'way above' BT, it's nice to see others bothering to challenge the all too prevalent (and very boring) pro-war nonsense (so perverted that now even a nuclear attack is fine by more than a few, nevermind the innocents to be casually slaughtered in that type of attack(s) and their aftermath, huh?) that seems to have taken root here.

===========================================================

Sorry to hear your story Fred and I am so glad you and yours didn't fold were able to (and continue) to stand and give a mightly **** you to the stupid sicko fascist element.

Respect.


[edit on 12-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Sminkey-

How do you know that Iran is years away?

They lied about their nuclear program for over 20 years...stating they didn't have one. That's 20 years............

So after being deceptive for over 20 years, they should now be trusted without question?

Especially when their 'president' talks about the messiah coming back, destroying other countries and updating their rockets to enable them to carry nuclear warheads?

Do you honestly trust them without question?

People seem to be blaming the US only........France, Germany, China & Russia are involved too......are they all wrong?

Originally posted by Amethyst


It's none of our business what another nation does within its own borders!

Yeah thats what America tried with Germany when hitler first took power..

I think we all know how that turned out

Raelly interseting debate ISRAEL is DANGEROUS, haha that country is a zionist country their complete [Censor circumvention] that just eat the american tax payers money and that they murder other races just for kicks. Oo yeah about that Israel OWNS 400 AMERICAN NUKES theres a slight comlication you see iran is a massive country compared with Israel you just gota agree on that one. and that silly Iran only needs ONE NUKE TO TOTALY DESTROY Israel. So who do you think has the upper hand yopu have to think hard on this one. And remember America can't hide the death toll after they attack Iran. This might get you theres more than 5000 americans dead in Iraq because of Israeli politics or aka zionist polotics so ssshh
don't say a word.

I hate zionist I rally do I hate them so much that I am in favor for the Iranians.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 12/4/2006 by Umbrax]