The true Holy Grail ?

I found a site of interest, and thought that some of you here may be interested too. Here's the link:

hometown.aol.com...

The similarities with the Hawkstone cup are numerous, this green alabaster is very rare, and the comments about the contents are very curious. There are also links with this and Worcester Cathedral, England.

The site has been updated to include the results of fresh research. Although this cup can be linked back to a Bishop of Worcester and the Cathedral in the 1550's without much difficulty, a link going back to the third crusade has now been established. It turns out that King John the brother of Richard the Lionheart was buried in the Cathedral.

One thing is certain, the cup is a green alabastar roman scent jar dating back to the first century or earlier. And it contains soil from the holyland. These are facts. Both of which make it more and more interesting.

This may be a relic of the third crusade, connected to Acre and King Richard himself. Whatever the story, whether biblical relic or not, this little cup certainly has a lot of history to it, and 25% of its 2000 year old history can be traced, which is more than can be said for many other grails out there.

The author of the site is very amenable and replies with copious detail

Another theory is that the holy grail was a cup from witch Jesus Christ drinked.
In that time there was two distinctive symbols to separate the women from the man.
The man had this symbol _/\_ and the women \/.
So the conclusion is that the holy grail kinda represents Holy Marry(a cup

posted by TempusDei: “ . . fresh research . . this cup can be linked back to Bishop of Worcester . . Cathedral in the 1550's . . a link going back to the Third Crusade has been established . . King John the brother of Richard the Lionheart was buried in the Cathedral . . the cup is a green alabaster Roman scent jar dating back to the first century or earlier . . it contains soil from the Holy Land [the cup] may be a relic of the Third Crusade and King Richard . . whether [a] Biblical relic or not, this little cup has a lot of history to it and 25% of its 2000 year old history can be traced, which is more than can be said for many other grails out there. [Edited by Don W]

T/D, I have 3 questions or comments.

1) I have some problem with Jesus - a failed revolutionary? - using anything so patently Roman for an event that He may have regarded as memorable or momentous . .
2) I have thought the Jesus Group - apostles and other more energetic or vociferous disciples - would have been too poor to afford a special cup . .
3) I’m of the opinion the cup was an ordinary clay cup or a wooden cup if wood works for wine.

[edit on 4/14/2006 by donwhite]

This is not the grail that was used in the last supper, that was entirely different, and as said probably of clay or wood. But we must remember that Jesus was a guest in another home, and one of high status, so stone or even something else may have been used.

But that is getting off the subject, the Deval Grail is not something from the Last Supper, but an unguent jar that was used to contain oils and spices for anointing. The anointing of a dead body was a strong tradition of the jews, and so was collecting any spilled blood of the deceased, which would have been buried with the body. This also would have included anything with blood on it, such as the nails, crown etc. etc. Therefore this cup was not a drinking vessel but an emptied unguent jar that was used to collect the blood.

As I mentioned in my previous post. Even if this jar is not connected with the crucifixion, someone during the crusades thought it was, and venerated it as a Holy Relic. This was at the same time that Chretien de Troyes first wrote about the grail. So this little cup may have been the very item that started all of this grail stuff. And it would explain too, the Royal Blood connection, as that is what this is reputed to have or still does, hold.

There are probably a few real grails out there, or were out there at one time before being lost or destroyed. Maybe this is one of them. We'll never know, unless someone finds a Tardis

Only the profane search for physical objects, instead of first seeing the intended symbolism.

The Holy Grail






Figuarum Aegyptiorum Secretarum, 18th century.



The Holy Grail, symbol of the feminine sexual organs, contains the Waters of life (Sexual Energy). Standing upon this water are the man and the woman, who use their staves (the Kundalini) to control the waters. The waters must be kept smooth and calm and absolutely pure, free from any defect or disturbance, for not a drop must be spilled.

From the tranquil and crystalline waters rises a column of stone, a symbol of the spinal column. The waters are the Foundation, which is Hebrew is Yesod, the Ninth Sephirah of the Kabbalah, and related directly to the sexual organs.

Upon the column are entwined the two serpents of the Caduceus, Ida and Pingala, known in Christianity as Adam and Eve.

Atop the column, supported by the work of the man and woman below, is the Innermost Spirit, our own Inner Divine Father and Mother, the Being. Unto the Innermost is given all glory and power, thus as the man and woman work to perfect themselves, the Innermost is given Initiations, Powers, titles, grades, etc. This is why the Innermost is crowned and carries the Magic Wand and the Caduceus.

Surrounding all of this are Elohim who rule over the planets, whose force and influence direct and guide the couple in their Alchemical Work. All of the Gods carry within the force of the Cosmic Christ, whose symbol is the Sun; that is why all the wands, staves and sexual organs are covered by the Sun.

Compare this painting with the widely known symbol of the Shiva linga.





This ancient symbol illustrates the divine creative power of man and woman in union, as symbolized in the profound mythology of Shiva.

I'm not saying that physical Holy relics such as the Holy Grail, Arc of the Covenant, etc. don't exist.

However, the wise first look toward the symbolism meant to be conveyed by the Ancients, no?

It looks like The_Mentor is on the right track.






[edit on 14-4-2006 by Tamahu]

Tamahu, you are quite correct. But this is a tangible artifact that found me. The spiritual meaning of the grail has not been lost on me. But, the symbolism of the grail could itself have evolved from an historical object, just like the cross.

Truth is, we shall never know. And that's annoying

[edit on 14-4-2006 by TempusDei]

posted by TempusDei: “This is not the grail that was used in the last supper, that was entirely different, and as said probably of clay or wood . . the Deval Grail is not something from the Last Supper, but an unguent jar that was used to contain oils and spices for anointing . . someone during the crusades thought it was, and venerated it as a Holy Relic. There are probably a few real grails out there . . Maybe this is one of them. We'll never know, unless someone finds a Tardis. [Edited by Don W]

Thanks, T/D, for the kind update and further explanation.

Tamahu, you are quite correct. But this is a tangible artifact that found me. The spiritual meaning of the grail has not been lost on me. But, the symbolism of the grail could itself have evolved from an historical object, just like the cross.

Okay.

But I would say that it's the other way around.

Physical things manifest from above, not vica versa.

Although, we could say that certain aspects of Initiation have to start at the bottom(physical plane) of the Tree of Life, as we work our way back up.

Nonetheless, that which we regain through Initiation, is always there; we just re-crystalize it within ourselves.


In other words: Things like the Cross and the Grail represent eternal principles, which of course, precede any physical object.

Truth is, we shall never know. And that's annoying

So many of the churches tell us.

However:


"I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you..." - Psalm 82


..."I and my Father are one.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"- John 10:30-34


"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:48"


The Wisdom of the Knowing Ones is right there in the scriptures.

But of course the fanatical Priests always have their excuses and shaky philosophies to down-play the Divinity that IS within Man.






[edit on 30-4-2006 by Tamahu]

Remember that the Grail is actually a medieval story. There's no documents or mention of it in legend and lore or story before about 1100 AD. Much of the Grail legend shows up in the Arthurian cycle.

Byrd, you are right, the grail isn't mentioned until around 1200 by the poet Robert de Boron. However Magdalene's jar is mentioned in the Bible, and throughout the first five or six centuries.

Empress Helena was said to have discovered it along with the True Cross in 327 AD, it is referred to as the Marian Chalice (the Chalice of Mary). There are a few contemporary accounts of her excavations which are considered to be quite reliable. Fifth century Greek historian Olympiodorus then writes about it being sent to Britain in 410 AD when Rome was sacked by the Visigoths.

After that, things become a little hazy and there are no records that have been found mentioning it between the sixth and twelfth century.

Wow I think this is the first time Worcester has been mentioned on ATS.
It's the town I live in so if anyone needs me to find out anything, I believe our cathedral is the same one as mentioned below.

There are so many things about which people seem not to ask the obvious questions. For instance, in the case of the Holy Grail, when it is referred to as the cup which caught the blood of Jesus Christ at the crucifixion, no one ever asks the question, Why would anyone do something so revolting? Imagine yourself as Mary, the mother of Jesus. Can anyone seriously believe she caught Christ's blood in a cup while he was dying on the cross? How about John the Revelator, the only apostle present? Would he? Why would either of them do such a thing?

The act of collecting the blood and anything with spilled blood of the deceased was a religious tradition at the time. These objects and the spilled blood on the earth and on the cross would have been collected and wiped up with cloth and buried with the body. This was perfectly normal for people in Jesus time, and sacrilege not to have done so. Even his mothe would have been engaged in the task as a mark of respect.

Yes, this practice continues even today. It is my understanding that in Israeli society, whenever there is an accident or terrorist strike, certain well trained & equipped Hebrew people respond. It is their job to do their very best in gathering all of the remains, even to the the extent of bodily fluids, so that out of respect, the deceased are, shall we say, "buried with all that can be possibly retained." These people have a very serious job. Especially when terrorists strike commercial buses.

But indeed correct, all objects with bodily fluids would have to be brought & placed in a container of sorts, be it nails, leather strappings, thorns, etc. Even soil would not be exempt.

This object is remarkable in itself, if indeed it can be dated as stated. It is worth some follow ups. Great info & wonderful read! More please if you have some. Thanks.

Way off target. The cup is symbology of a life map.