Hell IS Real !!! This Guy Went There!!!!

There was some good one-on-one so I wanted to hear both sides. To post within the same day "Is that all you got?! Hm?! Hm?!" is a bit egotistical I think. We all have stuff to do. ATS is not our job. At least, not for most of us. Patience Iago...paaaatience....

Sorry i havent been on this thread in a few days because of other obligations i didnt think that all of this would blow up over a few satanist remarkes my remarkes were made according to friend of mine years ago who was a praticing satanist i didnt even know he was one, untill i was about to leave and go into the military one night we were out drinking and he started flooding me about all this stuff he was into, he was freaking me out with all this stuff, he showed me an alter he built in his house in a secret place and that the devil was real and hell was real and he told me to never get involved with this stuff because once i did, i could never get out, I saw a side of this guy i never knew was there, I think that it was the alcohol because i dont think that he ever would have said a thing had he not been kinda intoxicated, but like my mother always said two poeple that tell the truth are DRUNKS & KIDS.... anyway we talked that night for hours and a few days later i was gone to basic training for the military, but i never firgot some of the things he said to me that night about the devil and the look of fear in his eye's was almost irrational.........anyway my comments were based on some of what this guy told me and some of what i've read in books. later when i became a christian i realized what a trap satan lead's people into through these methods and religon grounded in fear domination.............WHAT A LIAR!!!

Here's the problem that people have with religion. It's a structure, & set of "rules" that are meant to be followed. People get arrogant & think , "I'm not letting ANYONE tell ME what to do!! I don't need these rules! I'll do it MY way".
*or something to that effect*

Yes, God has laws. He has RULES/Commandments. he expects us to follow what he told us, & obey him. Do you really have a problem with that?

Think of it like this. When you were a child, your PARENTS had rules, & expected you to obey THEM didn't they? I'm sure at times you disobeyed, & went against what they said, just like all kids do. But what happened? You got into trouble, & had to be reprimanded, & apologize to them..... right?
Were your parents "unreasonable" to expect you to obey THEIR rules? I mean, after all, they CREATED YOU.......

I don't understand why people have a hard time accepting the fact that God wants US to obey HIM. We are his children... his creation.

If/when YOU have children, won't you also expect them to obey YOUR rules?
Will that make you unreasonable to expect them to?
Of course not.

As far as being "raised Irish Catholic", that doesn't automatically mean you know the Bible. I know PLENTY of people raised in one denomination or another, that don't really know or understand the Bible.

I didn't really start to understand it for what it's worth until recently.

One last thought.
GOD doesn't send people to Hell. People actually send THEMSELVES there.
It's all a matter of choice.

Nobody can MAKE you believe what you refuse to believe. But if you hear the truth & reject it, that's YOUR own decision.




[edit on 21-7-2006 by marko1970]

Well that's a rather simplistic way of looking at things. Do you really think that 80% of the rational world are just upset that they have to follow rules, and that's why their not Christian? Please Marko.

Originally posted by marko1970
But if you hear the truth & reject it, that's YOUR own decision.

I can look back on things that I've majorly screwed up in this life, and the effects of the "screwup" were quite painful to go through, but one gets over it.

I couldn't imagine being eternally burned, and while burning, rehearsing in my mind every single time I was told the truth of Jesus Christ and had the chance to escape, but didn't and rejected him. FOREVER.

That thought alone even knowing that I'm saved from that near about makes me sick.

I wish everybody could open their eyes, but clearly it isn't meant to be.

So, have you been in Hell? Heaven? Dead?

Some people will believe anything they read in an old book. Or that someone tells them. I suppose it's easier than trying to find any truth within yourself. Oh excuse me, that's the Devil talking.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Well that's a rather simplistic way of looking at things. Do you really think that 80% of the rational world are just upset that they have to follow rules, and that's why their not Christian? Please Marko.

I DO think that is the reason so many people either aren't religious at all, OR they start up / join some NEW religion that allows them the freedom to do more of what they please.

It may be a simplistic view, but I'd say it's pretty accurate.

Think about it.

People don't want to be held accountable for their actions. (That goes beyond religion too)

But seriously, many people have trouble with the thought of having to live by certain "rules". So they come up with their own "spiritual" beliefs, that allow them to feel like they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves. & when they die, they get to choose another life to experience, because we're all in some "soul school" or whatever..... talk about nonesense!!!



[edit on 21-7-2006 by marko1970]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So, have you been in Hell? Heaven? Dead?

Some people will believe anything they read in an old book. Or that someone tells them. I suppose it's easier than trying to find any truth within yourself. Oh excuse me, that's the Devil talking.

That's true. Some people WILL believe anything they read in a book, or on the internet. (like how we're going to be sucked up in UFOs to go back to our home planet)

ALSO.... There isn't full truth within yourself.
& when people ONLY go looking for truth within themselves, in essence they're saying, "I don't need God. I can do it on my own".

I've never been to Heaven or Hell. I've never been dead.
I HAVE had "out of Body Experiences". I've stood next to my "sleeping" body & looked at myself, as well as my surroundings. Fully concious to the fact that I knew my BODY was lying in bed, but I was conciously disconnected from it.

So I KNOW, & not just believe, that we have a soul which lives on after we "die".
& no, while out of my body I didn't encounter spirits, or Angels, or demons.... But again, I wasn't "dead".

However, it DID affirm my faith.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by marko1970
But if you hear the truth & reject it, that's YOUR own decision.

I can look back on things that I've majorly screwed up in this life, and the effects of the "screwup" were quite painful to go through, but one gets over it.

I couldn't imagine being eternally burned, and while burning, rehearsing in my mind every single time I was told the truth of Jesus Christ and had the chance to escape, but didn't and rejected him. FOREVER.

That thought alone even knowing that I'm saved from that near about makes me sick.

I wish everybody could open their eyes, but clearly it isn't meant to be.

It's never fun or pleasant to fess up to your mistakes, & actually take the blame & ask someone to forgive you. Whether it's God, or you friends, or family.
But that's all it takes.

It's not anything "difficult"..... except maybe emotionally.

I see it this way. God has every right to expect us to worship him & obey him.
I know as a parent, I expect my children to obey me, & listen to what I tell them.
I know what's best for them, & I "CREATED them". & if they were to reject ME as their father, & say "I don't believe in you, I'm going to call someone else my Father," I'd get a bit upset too.

People assume God WANTS to send people to Hell.... but that's not the case at all.
Hell was NOT MEANT for people, (his children). It was meant for Satan, & the angels who follow him. But unfortunately people WILL & HAVE ended up there because they reject & distance themselves from him.
& he's NOT going to allow that kind of trouble in Heaven.
(Just like I wouldn't allow the neighborhood miscrient in my house)

I TOTALLY get it!

So what's the difference between putting my full faith in a Web Page I found on Google, and putting my full faith in the Bible?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So what's the difference between putting my full faith in a Web Page I found on Google, and putting my full faith in the Bible?

Well, it comes down to a personal choice. Plain & simple.
Personally, I'll go for the book that's been around for 2000+ yrs, that CAN BE, & HAS BEEN verified to contain the same info it originally did.

(Yes, they DO have some of the original scrolls of the Bible, & they HAVE been translated by people who can read Greek & Hebrew, & they do in fact say what the bible says today.)

As far as websites go, there are some FANTASTIC ones out there. Some DO have wonderful information. Some are fact, & some are written by Joe Schmo, with improper grammar, & unverifiable claims.

I know you're smart enough to tell the difference.

You have your reasons for believing what you do, & you hold to them. Fair enough.

I just haven't seen any legitimate "proof" that the Bible is fictional. That's all.

Yeah, I've read the websites that say the Bible has contradictions... But when you actually read the passages BEFORE the single verses they claim contradict each other, you see where they are wrong in their claims.

It's actually quite humorous in a way... yet at the same time it's sad.

If you're going by age and accuracy in translation, head to Hinduism. The Vedas are a few thousand years older than the Bible, and most are still around in their original script (however Sanskrit is a tough language to learn, trust me).

[edit on 21-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If you're going by age and accuracy in translation, head to Hinduism. The Vedas are a few thousand years older than the Bible, and most are still around in their original script (however Sanskrit is a tough language to learn, trust me).

[edit on 21-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]

MAN!!! I'll pass on the Sanskrit....
I learned Spanish in High School, & that was enough foreign languages for me! HA!
(Spanish was quite easy... pero, hablo Ingles ahora! Por que, soy en los Estados Unidos amigo!!)

Seriously though, I'll be straight up here.......
Brotha' don't give a Damn about Hinduism, Mormonism, Scientology, Kabalah, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses "watchtower" viewpoint, Paganism, Witchcraft, UFOism, Celtism, Buddism,.......... etc.

I know water is wet, & fire is hot.
The truth is still the truth; & any religion that worships a God, with the belief that someday, THEY TOO, can become a god, has no true value....

I mean after all, if WE can (or WILL) become gods ourselves, what's the point in worshiping another god? Right?
Why not just worship ourselves, & give ourselves all the glory???
Why waste time giving praise & thanks to anyone but ourselves, if someday WE get to be gods???

(Isn't that pretty much what Satan told Eve?... "Surely you won't die. You'll become like GOD".)




[edit on 21-7-2006 by marko1970]

Originally posted by marko1970
I know water is wet, & fire is hot.
The truth is still the truth; & any religion that worships a God, with the belief that someday, THEY TOO, can become a god, has no true value....

All based on heresay I'm sure.

I mean after all, if WE can (or WILL) become gods ourselves, what's the point in worshiping another god? Right?
Why not just worship ourselves, & give ourselves all the glory???
Why waste time giving praise & thanks to anyone but ourselves, if someday WE get to be gods???

I'll bet you haven't read anything into this. One doesn't become a God. One becomes one with God. And God isn't a simple father figure who knows all the answers. God is much more than that. God is the unity of mankind. God exists as all. The best way to descibe the concept is to think of a lamp covered with a sheet. that sheet has billions of small holes in it which light can pass through. Every sould is one of those pinholes. While appearing to be seperate and unconnected from the outside observer, in truth we are all the same light.

So one doesn't become another God, one becomes God, or rather becomes one with God. Isn't that what christianity teaches as well?
Revelation 1:8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty
Since God is all things, isn't he us as well? And therefore aren't we him?
Very similar to Krishna stating "I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle, and the end of all beings"

Now, If God were to reveal himself to the world through a savior, wouldn't it make sense that he send a savior to many different parts of the world? It may make sense that he sent another savior with the near exact same teachings to another part of the word. The only difference being who took those teachings, and what they did with them. Obviously Christianity did some horrible things with them over the ages.


www.religioustolerance.org...
read this article. It describes the similarities and differences between Christianity and Huinduism. It's very interesting.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970
I know water is wet, & fire is hot.
The truth is still the truth; & any religion that worships a God, with the belief that someday, THEY TOO, can become a god, has no true value....

I

Now, If God were to reveal himself to the world through a savior, wouldn't it make sense that he send a savior to many different parts of the world?

Yea, one savior not alot of different ones : Mark13:5 says "Take heed that no one deceives you. " For many will come in my name saying( I am he) and will deceive many."

there are many warnings in the bible about false christ's so that if possible, even the very elect might be decieved. hinduism is a false road leading many to flames of hell. Mark13:21 says "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ", Look he is there! do not believe it. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to decieve, if possible even the elect.

So what should our feelings be toward these alternate paths that are so called "just as valid" ?? To me they are a path of deception because if god had intended to use these other paths and methods he would have said so in his word but instead he warns us that " many shall believe a lie and be damned"

I read your link about the differences & similarities of christianity and hinduism and all i can say is WOW what a counterfit religion, It would be just like the devil to tell 90% truth just to float 10% lies. jesus said I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no man comes to the father but by me! he didnt say me and chrishna he said me, not me and buddah, not me and mohammed, just me!

If you want to follow another way besides jesus thats fine he forces no one to worship him, you have layed before you, life and death, blessings and cursings, god says you chose! chose life......

also about christians who have done horrible things in the name of religion yes they have but i would question wether they were actually christians or demonically inspired seeds of satan set out to destroy the christian faith through their dreadful deeds.....knowing that future generations would not understand the difference between true bible believers and charlatins who were not following scripture, a case in point would be jim jones, was he a true believer in the teachings of jesus christ??, did he follow the holy spirit???, or some other spirit, what about david koresh was ha a true christian or a self-deluded lunatic who became demon possessed when he couldnt find what he was looking for in his search for truth???

I think that your a good person, you just need to consider the possibility that you could be wrong about your beliefs because the bible says that many shall be decieved.........

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970
I know water is wet, & fire is hot.
The truth is still the truth; & any religion that worships a God, with the belief that someday, THEY TOO, can become a god, has no true value....

All based on heresay I'm sure.

I mean after all, if WE can (or WILL) become gods ourselves, what's the point in worshiping another god? Right?
Why not just worship ourselves, & give ourselves all the glory???
Why waste time giving praise & thanks to anyone but ourselves, if someday WE get to be gods???

I'll bet you haven't read anything into this. One doesn't become a God. One becomes one with God. And God isn't a simple father figure who knows all the answers. God is much more than that. God is the unity of mankind. God exists as all.

So one doesn't become another God, one becomes God, or rather becomes one with God. Isn't that what christianity teaches as well?
Revelation 1:8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty
Since God is all things, isn't he us as well? And therefore aren't we him?
Very similar to Krishna stating "I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle, and the end of all beings"

Now, If God were to reveal himself to the world through a savior, wouldn't it make sense that he send a savior to many different parts of the world? It may make sense that he sent another savior with the near exact same teachings to another part of the word. The only difference being who took those teachings, and what they did with them. Obviously Christianity did some horrible things with them over the ages.


www.religioustolerance.org...
read this article. It describes the similarities and differences between Christianity and Huinduism. It's very interesting.

I agree with some of what you're saying here, but Let me see if I can explain where I differ in my opinion...

I believe God is more than just a father figure for sure. He IS more than all. He created all. He's
However, God is not "us" & we are NOT HIM.
He made us in his likeness, & he is "in" us if we accept him. He becomes part of us when we allow him into our lives. But to say "WE are also God" would mean there would be more than one God, which isn't the case.

I don't agree with the idea he would send another savior in addition to Jesus......

...Reason being, God said there would be ONE messiah that will come to bring salvation to his people. If there were MORE than one, it wouldn't have been as miraculous.
(Know what I mean?)

But all in all, yes. God is more than a simple father figure. He's more than we can really comprehend.
I DO know one thing,.. He's NOT some statue carved out of stone, or wood, or gold. He's not a planet, or a star, or an animal living in India..... he is much bigger, & greater than everything.

Originally posted by marko1970
I believe God is more than just a father figure for sure. He IS more than all. He created all. He's
However, God is not "us" & we are NOT HIM.
He made us in his likeness, & he is "in" us if we accept him. He becomes part of us when we allow him into our lives. But to say "WE are also God" would mean there would be more than one God, which isn't the case.

Actually, That is a very telling passage of the Bible.

Genesis 5: 1 This is the list of the descendants of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them "Humankind" when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

Notice that God created Adam in his likeness. While Seth was born in the likeness of Adam, therefore in the likeness of God, but in the image of Adam. In this passage there is no mention that Adam was made in Gods image.

To be in the likeness of God then, for me, takes the meaning of mans soul, being like God's. If there is One God, then the only way to explain this is that the multiple likenesses of God must become one with the one God.

It doesn't mean multiple gods.

I don't agree with the idea he would send another savior in addition to Jesus......

...Reason being, God said there would be ONE messiah that will come to bring salvation to his people. If there were MORE than one, it wouldn't have been as miraculous.
(Know what I mean?)

If Jesus is the messiah, who's to say he isn't the same being that brought truth to India? Maybe Krishna and Christ have more in common than a similar name. Maybe they both were the one messiah God spoke of. After all, why couldn't he be the same person?

I DO know one thing,.. He's NOT some statue carved out of stone, or wood, or gold. He's not a planet, or a star, or an animal living in India..... he is much bigger, & greater than everything.

He is also not an old white man with a beard. He is also not a 'he'. The Ghita says that God is everything. So does the Bible. So yes, god is a statue of stone, of wood, of gold. He is every planet, and star. He is every animal living everywhere. To deny this would be to deny your own faith.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970
I believe God is more than just a father figure for sure. He IS more than all. He created all. He's
However, God is not "us" & we are NOT HIM.
He made us in his likeness, & he is "in" us if we accept him. He becomes part of us when we allow him into our lives. But to say "WE are also God" would mean there would be more than one God, which isn't the case.

Actually, That is a very telling passage of the Bible.

Genesis 5: 1 This is the list of the descendants of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them "Humankind" when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

Notice that God created Adam in his likeness. While Seth was born in the likeness of Adam, therefore in the likeness of God, but in the image of Adam. In this passage there is no mention that Adam was made in Gods image.

To be in the likeness of God then, for me, takes the meaning of mans soul, being like God's. If there is One God, then the only way to explain this is that the multiple likenesses of God must become one with the one God.

It doesn't mean multiple gods.

I don't agree with the idea he would send another savior in addition to Jesus......

...Reason being, God said there would be ONE messiah that will come to bring salvation to his people. If there were MORE than one, it wouldn't have been as miraculous.
(Know what I mean?)

If Jesus is the messiah, who's to say he isn't the same being that brought truth to India? Maybe Krishna and Christ have more in common than a similar name. Maybe they both were the one messiah God spoke of. After all, why couldn't he be the same person?

I DO know one thing,.. He's NOT some statue carved out of stone, or wood, or gold. He's not a planet, or a star, or an animal living in India..... he is much bigger, & greater than everything.

He is also not an old white man with a beard. He is also not a 'he'. The Ghita says that God is everything. So does the Bible. So yes, god is a statue of stone, of wood, of gold. He is every planet, and star. He is every animal living everywhere. To deny this would be to deny your own faith.

I don't believe that Jesus & Krishna are the same, due to the fact that their teachings were different. If they were the same, they would have taught the same things. There might be some similarities here & there, but the overall messages are different.

Also, the passage about Adam explicitly says that he was indeed created in God's image (or likeness). & when Seth was born, in the likeness of Adam, (who was created in God's likeness) Seth would also be in God's likeness.

God isn't everything, but the creator of everything.
If God WAS everything, he would be his own creation. So he's not made of wood, or stone, or gold. He's not an old man with a beard. I'll give you that.

But there are differences between the Bible & the Bhagavad-gita.
To deny "God is everything" may go against Krishna's teachings, but it does not go against the Bible.

Show me how Jesus's teachings and Krishna's arre different. And BTW, these aren't necessarily my beliefs, just a perfectly valid and workin alternative to yours.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Show me how Jesus's teachings and Krishna's arre different. And BTW, these aren't necessarily my beliefs, just a perfectly valid and workin alternative to yours.

To start, Jesus never taught "Karma".

Jesus also said "No man shall enter the kingdom of my Father, but through me". (He didn't say we need to reach a certain cosmic conciuosness.)

Jesus never said that God is in every rock & tree & animal on the earth.

Jesus never taught that there is a "trick" to finding God. - But in the Ghita, there is a "trick" to finding the reality of the "Lord", which is finding the state of him in every action.

Jesus says, "If you know me, you know my Father" -
(But in the Ghita, Lord Krishna says, "I'll repeat the same thing to you, Oh Arjuna. I'll repeat it again for your full understanding because you are dear to Me. Nobody knows Me and I know everything." )

That's just for starters..... they are completely different in these aspects.