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Hell IS Real !!! This Guy Went There!!!!

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posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God



Originally posted by Tetraspace
There is a difference b/w a devil worshiper and a Satanist


Apparently not to the theistic Satanist. I recall him saying about others being in denial.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]


yeah devil worship and theistic pretty much the same...

I should have said a difference b/w Philosophical Satanism and Religious Satanism

Just a selfish religion all in all.....

but not to be confused that all Satanist worship a devil....

I like your passion in you!!!

I like posting with you! You keep the forum alive




posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970
People always say, Better safe than sorry"... but more accurately would be "better SAVED than sorry".


So you love Jesus because if you don't you'll be sorry?





Well, looks like you found a loophole in the everlasting soul.
Something you haven't dealt with though. You give only two options, Jesus is Lord, and Nothing. What if by accepting Jesus you damn yourself to an eternity with clamps on your privates (possibly another interpretation of Hell)?

As for feeling good because of Jesus, I put that in the same category as losing a headache after taking a sugar pill. The human mind is a powerful thing, even if you're not concious of it. If I believe that a pile of dog feces tastes like cherries, and I believe hard enough, it will be true.


I was giving MY OWN interpretation of the "better safe than sorry" motto.....

... I'm not looking for a "loophole". I'm explaining that if I'm wrong, I'm still OK, & there's nothing to worry about with me.
But if YOU are wrong, what does that mean for you?

Concerning your theory on "dog feces"... I DARE you to try that one.
Because no matter HOW HARD you "believe" it'll taste like cherries, it's still a pile of crap, & it will TASTE like crap anyway you slice it.

I'm just trying to get you to REALLY think about it.
What if I AM right, & everything the Bible says is true? ( which as I said, CAN be validated if you just do a little looking) Where will YOU be?

But at the same time, what if I'm wrong? For ME, it's a win/win situation.

If the "New-Agers" are correct, & we just re-incarnate over & over, I am still going to be OK.

But if I'm right, then that puts you, & many others in a tough situation.

If we all DO have to face God in Judgement, how will you explain your reason for rejecting the truth that was presented to you?



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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I can't put it to the test myself. I don't believe that it would taste like cherries. Similar to the way that I don't believe that Jesus is Lord. Oddly enough, I'm extremely happy with my life. So there goes the whole Jesus thing.

Besides, I don't have to prove it myself, that's what the Placebo effect is. It's already been proven as a real phenomenon.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Tetraspace
yeah devil worship and theistic pretty much the same...


Okay, I'll accept that.


Originally posted by Tetraspace
I should have said a difference b/w Philosophical Satanism and Religious Satanism

Just a selfish religion all in all.....

but not to be confused that all Satanist worship a devil....


Also agreed.


Originally posted by Tetraspace
I like your passion in you!!!


Thanks! Glad we could make progress together. I learned new stuff in your research and postings.


Originally posted by Tetraspace
I like posting with you! You keep the forum alive


Hehe, thanks. Though not here just to kick up dust. I really am interested in getting to the heart of truth as much and often as possible. Also glad you're here to represent and are pliable to work with someone instead of against someone. Too often these subjects come to blows and I usually just bow out if people start getting offended.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by marko1970
I'm just trying to get you to REALLY think about it.
What if I AM right, & everything the Bible says is true? ( which as I said, CAN be validated if you just do a little looking) Where will YOU be?

But at the same time, what if I'm wrong? For ME, it's a win/win situation.

If the "New-Agers" are correct, & we just re-incarnate over & over, I am still going to be OK.

But if I'm right, then that puts you, & many others in a tough situation.

If we all DO have to face God in Judgement, how will you explain your reason for rejecting the truth that was presented to you?


And on the day you die, and you wind up being ferried to Grethor on the Klingon Barge of the Damned, YOU will be sorry, not me. How will you explain your reasons for not living an honorable life as a Klingon Warrior?

I'm just trying to get YOU to REALLY think about it.
Please, don't limit yourself becasuse of fear.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I can't put it to the test myself. I don't believe that it would taste like cherries. Similar to the way that I don't believe that Jesus is Lord. Oddly enough, I'm extremely happy with my life. So there goes the whole Jesus thing.

Besides, I don't have to prove it myself, that's what the Placebo effect is. It's already been proven as a real phenomenon.


Don't give "examples" if you don't believe it yourself..... Crap is crap, & it will taste like crap...
LOL!

You can be "happy" in your (self absorbed) life on your own... that's true.
But again, you're going to have an uncomfortable talk with God, to say the least.

Nobody can MAKE you believe that jesus is Lord. All we can do is present the information to you, & from there it's all on YOUR shoulders.

I can tell you either haven't truly thought about the "what if I'm right" question I posed..... OR... you're AFRAID to think about the implications it brings when you REALLY think about it. (which further confirms that I AM right)

But, that's your decision to make or reject..... & not mine.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I can't put it to the test myself. I don't believe that it would taste like cherries.


Good! Glad you're in touch with reality too. Thing about psychosis is that reality has a way of persevering quickly. You really have to be strongly dillusional to ignore it for a mere few seconds, let alone as a way of life. Case in point, the TV show "Fear Factor" where many put that to the test eating sh*t they imagine as cherries. Watch that timer! It doesn't work for long.



Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Similar to the way that I don't believe that Jesus is Lord. Oddly enough, I'm extremely happy with my life. So there goes the whole Jesus thing.


*looks at the clock* Excellent, how much longer do you think you have? Our 70 + - years are a sneeze in time when compared to infinity.


Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Besides, I don't have to prove it myself, that's what the Placebo effect is. It's already been proven as a real phenomenon.


Please expand.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Okay Marko,
I'm going to need to break this down to it's simplest terms.

1. There are more than 2 options. It's not a Win/Win scenerio. For your scenerio to work, your beliefs will have to be win/win/win/win/win/win...... (1 for every belief to ever exist)

2. the plecebo effect is a real one. If the mind believes something strongly enough, it will make it so. Especially when it comes to the senses, and emotions.

3. What if I'm right Marko? What if what I believe is true, and that means that you will burn in hell? Not so win/win anymore.


Edit: For those who want to know more about it placebo effect


Placebo and depression

A brain-imaging study found that depressed patients who responded to the placebo effect showed changes in cerebral blood flow, which were similar to the changes in brain function seen in patients who responded to anti-depressant medication. (Leuchter 2002) Other studies argue that up to 75% of the effectiveness of anti-depressant medication is due to the placebo-effect rather than the treatment itself. (Khan 2000)

Endogenous Opiates

Endogenous opiates are chemicals produced by the brain that suppress pain and produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Opium and drugs derived from it (opiates) produce their "highs" by triggering the same brain receptors used by natural opiates. Increased release of endogenous opiates like endorphin is associated with pleasant experiences like exercise (the runner's high) and sex. When patients who claimed to experience pain relief after receiving a placebo were injected with naloxone (a drug that blocks the effects of opiates), their pain returned, suggesting that the placebo effect may be partly due to the release of natural opiates. (Sauro 2005)


[edit on 19-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]

[edit on 19-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970


And on the day you die, and you wind up being ferried to Grethor on the Klingon Barge of the Damned, YOU will be sorry, not me. How will you explain your reasons for not living an honorable life as a Klingon Warrior?

I'm just trying to get YOU to REALLY think about it.
Please, don't limit yourself becasuse of fear.


I can't see how trying to compare reality to sci-fi makes sense.
I'm not "limited" & also don't "fear" God. (Not in the sense you're thinking of anyway)

I AM afraid of the alternative option to heaven. I'll openly admit that!
But knowing & accepting that Jesus IS in fact Lord, doesn't limit me at all!
I'm not sure where you came up with that one.

I live a full life, & a satisfying life. I choose to live by the word of God, & am in no way "limited" by any means.

I believe we are ALL accountable for our own actions & choices, & I personally choose to make GOOD choices in life. (beyond the "religious" aspect of it)

I actually fear NOTHING. & it's a GREAT feeling! This "life" is temporary. That's a fact. But what happens AFTERWARD is another story.

& yes, I'd rather be "SAVED" than sorry that I wasn't. You can look at it as me just covering my own ass, that's OK. Because in a way, that might be true. But it's a better alternative than the OTHER option of being wrong....



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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well, comparing a script written by a sci fi writer, and a script written a writer of myth is absolutely the same. Jesus is lord isn't a reality, just a Sci-fi story taken too seriously.

As for your limitations, can you read the quoran without thinking that it's followers are damned to hell? Are you able to read the Bhagivad Ghita without thinking that the writer is a blasphemer, and therefore unworthy of the kingdom of heaven?

Can you think of me as a human being without thinking that I deserve to burn in hell for all eternity?

You may not see the limitations but I can.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Okay Marko,
I'm going to need to break this down to it's simplest terms.

1. There are more than 2 options. It's not a Win/Win scenerio. For your scenerio to work, your beliefs will have to be win/win/win/win/win/win...... (1 for every belief to ever exist)

2. the plecebo effect is a real one. If the mind believes something strongly enough, it will make it so. Especially when it comes to the senses, and emotions.

3. What if I'm right Marko? What if what I believe is true, and that means that you will burn in hell? Not so win/win anymore.


Edit: For those who want to know more about it placebo effect



[edit on 19-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]


I TOTALLY agree with the placebo effect to a point. But it only works to a certain extent... there IS a ceiling effect with it.

Now,
what if YOU ARE right? & I'm wrong & jesus isn't Lord?
Then that means there is no Hell. So why would I worry about burning in Hell, when it's MY religion that talks about Hell?
So If I AM wrong, then there IS no hell... right?

(But there IS.... & I am on the right "team" so to speak) so I STILL don't worry...

Also, my beliefs don't have to be win/win/win/win for EVERY belief to exsist.
In fact, I don't think you even know where you were going with that one......

I'm still trying to figure out what is beyond the "2 options"...... Either Jesus is Lord, & he made the ultimate sacrafice for us,...... or he didn't.
So how am I in Jeopardy for believing that he DID die, & rose again, for our salvation?

I'd say that those who refuse to accept him are the ones in jeopardy.

If you're worried about being under "rules" of a religion, just remember that we have to follow rules, & laws every day. That's just how it is.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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Hell is a concept older than Christianity, or even Judaism, so it isn't only YOUR religion that believes it.

BTW, if you don't sacrefice a goat on wednesday morning you're going to hell. Sorry, not my rules.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God




Originally posted by Tetraspace
I like your passion in you!!!


Thanks! Glad we could make progress together. I learned new stuff in your research and postings.

BIG SMILES...I agree...and I'm learning from you as well.


Originally posted by Tetraspace
I like posting with you! You keep the forum alive


Hehe, thanks. Though not here just to kick up dust. I really am interested in getting to the heart of truth as much and often as possible. Also glad you're here to represent and are pliable to work with someone instead of against someone. Too often these subjects come to blows and I usually just bow out if people start getting offended.

Well, I agree I'm not here to just kick up dust...
That's what makes me happy about you!

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]


Thank You!

very big cheers to you



[edit on 19-7-2006 by Tetraspace]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Hell is a concept older than Christianity, or even Judaism, so it isn't only YOUR religion that believes it.

BTW, if you don't sacrefice a goat on wednesday morning you're going to hell. Sorry, not my rules.


The original "religion" would have been the belief that Adam & Eve had when God created them. Knowing that they were God's creation, that would make Christianity the oldest religion. (Although it wasn't called "Christianity" until AFTER Christ came & died)

As far as the goat goes, that is supposed to be Friday night, not Wed.....

OK.... in all seriousness, Yes, there WERE sacrifices back in the "Old Testament" times.... but after Jesus came & died (making the ULTIMATE sacrifice) there was no need for the sacrifice any more.

And WHY did we sacrifice animals anyway??
Well, God DID give us dominion over the animals. They were ours to rule over.
And to sacrifice animals back then was "normal". (it seems "wierd" to me, because I live in THIS lifetime, but that's just what it was)

But... how is Hell just a "concept"?
& if other religions also speak of such a place, wouldn't that make you think that there could be some reality about it?

And, again... why would you want to take the chance of being wrong, & set yourself up for a one way ticket straight there?



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by marko1970
The original "religion" would have been the belief that Adam & Eve had when God created them. Knowing that they were God's creation, that would make Christianity the oldest religion. (Although it wasn't called "Christianity" until AFTER Christ came & died)


Well of course it would be. After all, the Bible tells us something so it HAS to be true. Please, if you're going to read the bible, don't do so literally. Very few texts were meant to be taken literally at the time that the OT was written.


OK.... in all seriousness, Yes, there WERE sacrifices back in the "Old Testament" times.... but after Jesus came & died (making the ULTIMATE sacrifice) there was no need for the sacrifice any more.


Not my point. My point was that everyone in the world has their own mind, and thus their own beliefs. So if you don't sacrafice a goat to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you'll burn in hell.


But... how is Hell just a "concept"?
& if other religions also speak of such a place, wouldn't that make you think that there could be some reality about it?


How is it not a concept? Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true. Just because a concept is old doesn't make i true, especilly when Judaism and Christianity have their roots in another religion all together.


And, again... why would you want to take the chance of being wrong, & set yourself up for a one way ticket straight there?


Going back to my previous point, it's not a Jesus or Nothing scenerio. It's a Jesus, or Krishna, or Allah, or Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Mithra, or countless other beliefs. Pick any one, and the others will send you to hell. (actually, christianity is the only one that will send you to hell for picking the wrong one. That makes me wonder about it's good intentions.)

I feel bad that you feel Christianity is the only belief that holds any merit, and that all others are wrong, and the followers deserve to burn in hell.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by marko1970
The original "religion" would have been the belief that Adam & Eve had when God created them. Knowing that they were God's creation, that would make Christianity the oldest religion. (Although it wasn't called "Christianity" until AFTER Christ came & died)


Well of course it would be. After all, the Bible tells us something so it HAS to be true. Please, if you're going to read the bible, don't do so literally. Very few texts were meant to be taken literally at the time that the OT was written.


OK.... in all seriousness, Yes, there WERE sacrifices back in the "Old Testament" times.... but after Jesus came & died (making the ULTIMATE sacrifice) there was no need for the sacrifice any more.


Not my point. My point was that everyone in the world has their own mind, and thus their own beliefs. So if you don't sacrafice a goat to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you'll burn in hell.


But... how is Hell just a "concept"?
& if other religions also speak of such a place, wouldn't that make you think that there could be some reality about it?


How is it not a concept? Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true. Just because a concept is old doesn't make i true, especilly when Judaism and Christianity have their roots in another religion all together.


And, again... why would you want to take the chance of being wrong, & set yourself up for a one way ticket straight there?


Going back to my previous point, it's not a Jesus or Nothing scenerio. It's a Jesus, or Krishna, or Allah, or Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Mithra, or countless other beliefs. Pick any one, and the others will send you to hell. (actually, christianity is the only one that will send you to hell for picking the wrong one. That makes me wonder about it's good intentions.)

I feel bad that you feel Christianity is the only belief that holds any merit, and that all others are wrong, and the followers deserve to burn in hell.



1st of all.... *ahem* "sorry, not MY rules".
It's not MY decision, on who burns & who doesn't. & there's no need to feel bad for me.

If Christianity is the only one saying, "LOOK!! Here's the truth! I created everything, & everyONE. I offer you a gift of slavatiobn, & all you have to do is ask for it. That's it. If you reject, or refuse, here's the alternative..." (or something to that effect)

... and all the rest are basically saying, "Hey do what you want, it doesn't REALLY matter".
Or
"hey, you can come back as a COW"...
or
"we are ALL God... you just need to shift your vibrations..."
Or whatever other kind of meaningless jibberish....

Doesn't that make you think that there IS only ONE TRUTH??
& it's the ONE religion that people want to bash, & discredit more than any other.

Satan is doing a fine job of misleading people, that's for sure.
There are many false religions, & people get drawn into them.

Yes we DO have our own minds. God gave us free will. So it's OUR OWN choice to make.

You misunderstand about what is supposed to be taken literally, & what is metaphoric concerning the Bible.
MOST of the Bible is something to take literally. (Really!)
There ARE some parables to demonstrate what God was trying to convey.... to use as an example. But those are clearly outlined as such.

I get the impression you haven't done much reading of the Scriptures yourself..... but you think you know an awful lot about them. (however, much of what you "think" you know is innacurate)



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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Here's the thing,

I wasn't trying to "argue" with you on this... but it did kind of end up that way.
I was just trying to get you to think about "what if"....

Anyway, The real situation is this:

There are (and have been) Christian churches that have distorted, & twisted the true word of God. & These "false" churches are the main cause of people being mislead, or confused.

I personally wondered about the Bible, & whether it was "true" or not.
I studied religions, & read up on the "New Age" movemnts. (They sound good! I mean, why NOT take out the fear of punishment? Why NOT think that WE can become GOD??) But the fact is, they all contradict eaqch other, as well as their OWN words.

As far as the Bible being translated long ago, & "maybe it was improperly translated"... (I also wondered about that)......
.....Many of the ORIGINAL SCROLLS of the Bible are still here. They have been studied & translated by modern men who CAN read the text in which they were written, & have verified that what was written 2000 years ago (and longer) is in fact what our Bibles still say.

So, if you're like I was, I'd take the time to read it myself & see what I get from it now that I am older, & can understand it better.
I mean, when I was 5-10 yrs old, I didn't really "get the drift" ... ya know?

But after going back & reading it again, & being able to understand it more, it started to make more sense, & I was able to SEE where the Bible really IS accurate.

So, I truly understand your point of view. (because I was in a similar mindset as you... wondering if it's true,... wondering if maybe there's "something else"... or thinking that none of it matters, and we all just die & that's it, or we re-incarnate in new lives)

I have had "Out of Body Experiences".... & I mean "FULLY CONCIOUS", not a dream, REAL "OBES" that solidified my belief in an afterlife.
But I ended up reading many different views on what they are, & what they mean... & all the "NEW AGE" books had something different to say about them.

The Bible even mentions them.. when John describes Heaven, he says "..... whether in the body, or out, I don't know....." (concerning his state of being when he received the vision)

So Yes, we DO exsist after this life. (which is a "known" to me, & not JUST a belief).

However, I have never seen Heaven, nor have I seen Hell....
...but I DO KNOW that something happens after we leave this life....



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by marko1970
[ If Christianity is the only one saying, "LOOK!! Here's the truth! I created everything, & everyONE. I offer you a gift of slavatiobn, & all you have to do is ask for it. That's it. If you reject, or refuse, here's the alternative..." (or something to that effect)


They all say that,In that respect Christianity isn't special.


... and all the rest are basically saying, "Hey do what you want, it doesn't REALLY matter".
Or
"hey, you can come back as a COW"...
or
"we are ALL God... you just need to shift your vibrations..."
Or whatever other kind of meaningless jibberish....


Meaningless Jibberish? Out of respect for your fellow man, it may behooth you to learn about these other religions.

I'e never come across a belief system that says do whatever you want, it doesn't matter. I'm sure if you looked into it, then came back you'd see how rediculous this statement is.

Edit: wait, Satanism does, kinda


Doesn't that make you think that there IS only ONE TRUTH??
& it's the ONE religion that people want to bash, & discredit more than any other.


I absolutely believe that there is one truth, but to say that if you don't find that one truth in the blink of an eye that you exist here on earth you will burn for eternity?

In Islam, you go to hell until you've paid for your crimes. And you are judged ny your deeds, and not by your allegence to a central figurehead.
In Hinduism you spend an amount of time in heaven for your good deads, hell for your bad, then back to earth for your next life. (preceeded Christianity by at least 5000 years)
In Zoroastrianism your deeds are weighed on a scale after three days. Whichever deads weigh heavier determineds your entrance into heaven or hell (The predecessor to Christianity and Judaism)

Christianity, again, seems to be the most unaccepting, unforgiving, and downright threatening about faith. Everyone else just wants you to be a good person. But I guess that's the meaningless jibberish that you were referring to.



Satan is doing a fine job of misleading people, that's for sure.
There are many false religions, & people get drawn into them.


My all time favorite cop-out.


You misunderstand about what is supposed to be taken literally, & what is metaphoric concerning the Bible.
MOST of the Bible is something to take literally. (Really!)
There ARE some parables to demonstrate what God was trying to convey.... to use as an example. But those are clearly outlined as such.


Really? Says who? Just because a story isn't outlined by saying "this is a metaphor" doesn't mean it's not a metaphor. You must miss the point of a lot of books.


I get the impression you haven't done much reading of the Scriptures yourself..... but you think you know an awful lot about them. (however, much of what you "think" you know is innacurate)


What makes you say that? Obviously I've done a good job of hiding my Irish Catholic background. I was raised Christian, I've done plenty of reading of the scripture, but I've also read about where it came from (meaning I didn't blindly accept that it was handed down from God) I've read different interpretations of the scriptures because I was convinced there was a deeper meaning than was placed on the surface, and often there was, when I thought about it.

I know what Christianity is. I know who (for the most part) used it, and what they used it for. I know that the essential teachings of Jesus was good stuff that people needed to know, but was twisted by those in power into something far from what he meant.

And, I hate to break it to you, most of what Jesus said was meant as metaphor. Not to be taken literally. And most of the old testiment was written from the perspective of primitive man.



[edit on 19-7-2006 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 05:25 AM
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^ I guess that was the threadkiller
:bash:



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
^ I guess that was the threadkiller
:bash:


When you rhetorically ream someone; it happens sometimes.

Im out of way aboves. I owe you one.



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