Americans can't wear US flag in the US!

The flag means different things to different people. Westy, to you it's an important symbol of our country and holds a great deal of value. Not everyone feels that way. It does no good to argue the intrinsic value of the flag because it's a matter of opinion.

The point is that for those who value it highly as a symbol of all that our country stands for, to ban it in any way is an act of great infringement.

I don't give the flag this value, but I understand that some do and they have every right to feel that way. Some value speech more than others, some value privacy more than others.

The point is that our rights must not be infringed, whether they're especially important to each individual or not.

I understand that this school has retracted the ban. Hopefully this story sends a message that our rights are more important than 'harmony' or political correctness or someone getting their knickers twisted because they're 'offended'. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of hope for that.

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No its not just a Flag its much more that that, its the manifestation and symbol of everything we stand for.

Thats right, a flag.

I think the founders would have been petrified to find out Americans were being denied their right to display the US flag.

They wouldn't have cared much about an overtly nationalistic symbol, nor the socialist pledge that students mindlessly repeat as they salute it each and every day in class.
If they'd've been worried over this, it would've been as an infringment of freedom of speech, and, again, everyone is comfortable with that freedom being restricted in schools. If they'd've been worried over this incident, they'd've been worried that students couldn't've carried the mexican or bolivian flags also, because they are both equally infringments on freedom of speech.

But its not an infringment upon freedoms that you are worried about. You want to ensure 'flag waiving'. The founders simply wouldn't be concerned about that. And, again, if anything, they'd probably be disturbed by overly emotive nationalistic fervor being rampantly publically displayed.


As far as the photos, i understand the point you are making, and perhaps trying to 'counter' emotive propaganda like the nazi-salute-esque ones that i posted, but I didn't post it for propaganda purposes. It shows a real danger, those kids were just saluting the US flag, they were taking pride in their nation, above all others. Thats perfectly innocent, but nationalism in excess can and does become dangerous.

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Nygdan]

IMO this principal is a very bad principal. He values restrictions of freedom and national pride. These things should be encouraged in school. The man should be blacklisted from the government industry.

I don't give the flag this value, but I understand that some do and they have every right to feel that way. Some value speech more than others, some value privacy more than others.

True, I’m just say that those kids that had nothing to do with the apparent incidents that took place at this school were unjustly punished. They have every high to peacefully and appropriately display the US flag on their attire or person.

But its not an infringment upon freedoms that you are worried about. You want to ensure 'flag waiving'. The founders simply wouldn't be concerned about that. And, again, if anything, they'd probably be disturbed by overly emotive nationalistic fervor being rampantly publically displayed.

No, I want to ensure that it is not the place of the government or teacher to dictate how I or anyone else chooses to honor or display the flag. And yes I know this includes flag burner too, which I must admit really anger me. However if banning flag burner's is an infringement of basic rights then what is banning people from displaying the US flag?

The fact of the matter is that not allowing these kids to wear or display the flag won't accomplish jack! If these kids are bigoted or intollerant of one other, and want to start touble, taking away their flags won't stop them. You can keep a klansman from wearing his sheet, but he's still a racist, ignorant cracker. Taking his sheet off him just makes him harder to spot in a crowd.

I'm not saying that all the kids wearing the flags are racist, not at all. But some of them are obviously misusing the flag to get at others. Punish those kids. Not ALL the kids. All this PC crap has made me really start to question where this country is headed. It's like we are suppose to be ashamed to be American or something (sometimes we should be, but not because of being born here).

The way things are going, it IS becoming harder to be a "proud American". This country's in a tailspin right now, the government's asleep at the wheel and John Q. Public eyes are glued to the in-flight movie, blissfully unaware of his impending doom.

--edit for spelling, I'm sure some are still wrong though, mE am baad spelr

[edit on 4/10/2006 by yadboy]

Until its made legal again to burn a flag in protest, all flags should be banned. How's that sound?

Until its made legal again to burn a flag in protest, all flags should be banned.

It is legal to burn a flag in protest, as much as I may not like it as of now its allowed. The US Supreme Court ruled on this very topic in 1989.
TEXAS v. JOHNSON, 491 U.S. 397 (1989).

Conclusion

In a 5-to-4 decision, the Court held that Johnson's burning of a flag was protected expression under the First Amendment. The Court found that Johnson's actions fell into the category of expressive conduct and had a distinctively political nature. The fact that an audience takes offense to certain ideas or expression, the Court found, does not justify prohibitions of speech. The Court also held that state officials did not have the authority to designate symbols to be used to communicate only limited sets of messages, noting that "if there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."

Link

[edit on 10-4-2006 by WestPoint23]

I stand corrected, anyone should be able to display a flag at anytime.

lol there is no way im gunna believe that...

Einstein said (I'm paraphrasing) "The use of flags is a sad indicator that man is still a herd animal".

In my time in the US I came to appreciate what a powerful method of thought control it is to make people swear allegiance to a piece of cloth.

This discussion gives me every reason to maintain that opinion.

reply to post by WestPoint23


You read my mind, in addition.

I am so sick of the PC crowd, now their banning American flags in public schools... This is insane! Want to avoid a "clash"?, ban the Mexican flag, or the flag of any other nation. Some one thinks it violates the first ammendment? We all know thats never been absolute. But the reaction by some dipp is to ban the US flag? Whats wrong with this picture? Watching demonstrations with Mexican flags all over them like a rash was infuriating. Enough! Want to become American citizan's? Great, just don't break the law. And if you want to lead a parade , and your in the US, thats not a good time to gloat over Mexican nationalism. Ditch the Mexican flag. Believe me, it's not helping any immigrant cause.

Now I read both articles. The first one on the principle who banned the flags, did it in the correct way. He banned ALL FLAGS from being worn, and his reasons were to protect and prevent violence on the student body. He is doing such as that is his responsiblity, showing no favortism towards either group, making sure that both know that such will not be tolerated and to keep the peace. If you are a parent you would expect that when your child goes to school, they are going to be safe, and kept safe while there, or you would be all over the school and the adminstration on such. That is part of the public schools mandate, and especially in Colorado, where the Colombine school shooting shocked the country. If the principle can prevent such violence and do it in a way where no favortism or claims of racisim is shown, then more power to him.
The second article on banning flags at a campsite, that is discrimination and violated the first Admendment rights for freedom of speech. If you want to know why, it is because there is limits of freedom of free speech on school property. If you want a peaceful society, it has to start with the children, but however, if a person in their private vehicle or camper has a flag in the window, then it is the same if you are in your own private residence and have such on your wall or in your window, and that is a statement, that is protected by the freedom of speech.
What I find that is interesting is that the flag ban that got national attention in California, here recently, it is the immigrant groups that are protesting and waving mexican flags, as the vice principle decided to ban one side, instead of banning all flags. They are now protesting and people wonder why illegale immigrants are not liked, especially when they are waving mexican flags and screaming racism.