Drop out nation

Originally posted by zerotolerance
The drop-outs are my nieces and nephews, not my siblings.
My sister "is" successful. She's educated. Financially secure. But they spoiled their kids rotten and never ever disciplined them. Her kids have no respect for authority at all.
They get away with murder and never ever get reprimanded. If they do bad in school, they don't get punished, get priviledges taken away or anything. My sister was not raised this way. Now, how her husband was raised, I have not a clue......

With 'success in life' I would include making sure that the kids get a solid education. If they don't, then that is a failure.

In fact, aside from feeding, sheltering and teaching integrity, I'd say a parent's most important job is to make sure their kid gets a solid education.

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[edit on 16-4-2006 by AgentSmith]

Hello everyone, awesome topic. I went to public school my entire life and saw TONS of my friends and acqaintences drop out. In New York there is a much higher standard of edjucation via such things as Regents exams. However, I slept through highschool and the work is simply complete it and pass. It is mostly ignorance and defiance that you normally find anyways around the age of the teen years and makes it very difficult for many. Finding jobs however is going to be incredibly difficult for these people if amnesty reform finds its way into an amendment. This will make these people equally as qualified and somebody who illegally hopped a fence into this country. Boo for bad reform choices and bad presidencys. (and most republicans for that matter)

Originally posted by Street Scholar
Maybe if those jobs were paid better and teachers/admin would care enough to encourage instead of discourage. I think the main thing that's important: DON'T BE A VICTIM.

I still think teaching is very cush to some of the jobs i have worked, I have detassled corn in searing 90-100 wheater with little sun protection. stopping every round, for 1 cup of water. a round is a trip through a mile or longer cornfield moving at a bout 5 mile an hour and back again. So you got a brak about once or twice an hour. It was hard work. didnt pay very well but I did it for a summer or two. better than bailing hay . anyway, that blows the "Americans wont do agricultural jobs" right out the window.
The heat got pretty bad. One of my friends passed out, he was a small guy, and hit his head on the guard rail and went under the tractor, luckily it was between the wheels so he didnt get hit. I ran for about a quarter mile to get the guy who was supervising the farm hands. after giving him some water, very little because we were afraid he could go into shock if we cooled him down to quickly. He was ok.

I also remember the end of the day and remember peoples skin peeling off, it was awful. Like theyd been eradiated or something . and this was a 7 day a week job in the summer.

and every single one was a full blooded american.....

So those politicians can shove that argument up their "culu"

Anyhow how does grading papers compare to that? I guess I can see the challenges being perhaps more intellectual than physical, but I am convinced teaching is a "cush job". thank you!



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[edit on 16-4-2006 by AgentSmith]

XphilesPhan, a wise but unschooled man once told me, some jobs you sweat outside and some jobs you sweat mentally. I think a teacher would be sweating mentally. You were right in a prior post re the grueling effects of some jobs on the body. What sounds like fun/doable work at 20 might not be so fun or doable at even 42.
Another thought re drop out rates. Not too long ago the drop out age was 16 (when some dropped either after 8th gr or 9th), now it is 18, so we're forcing more and more students to stay in school. Or is it a national babysitting service?

Many drop outs or teens in danger of dropping out are "trouble makers" and "underachievers" but not all of them are.

I don't know about the rest of the country but here in Minnesota you can't legally drop out until you're 18. My best friend dropped out not long after she turned 18. There wasn't much her parents could do about it since she was already an adult and lived on her own. She was in no way an underachiever. She has an above average intellegence and she was extremily bored and not learning anything. She got her G.E.D and is now in college.

My high school never encouraged kids to drop out but they did encourage kids to seemed to struggle to go to the alternative learning center or to get into the work program. Sure there were a lot of trouble makers sent to the alternative learning center but a lot of the kids just learned differently and needed more attention from teachers to help them understand school work.

I missed a month of school in my freshman year because of some family problems. So of course when I got back to school (a different school than the one I was at before) I was way behind and struggled. My guidence counselor tried to convince my mom to enroll me into the work program which is a program they send kids into to get used to working manual labor because they figure they will never make it in anything else. I am definatly not a trouble maker! My mom told them to stick their suggestion where the sun didn't shine. I eventually got caught up and found my way onto the honor roll the next school year.

So zerotolerance, I do agree that in MOST cases it is a problem with the way the kids are raised. However there are exceptions to every rule and that isn't always the case. In the cases where the administration is debating on encouraging a kid to drop out or send them to one of the "bad apple" programs, they should really make more of an effort in figuring out if the kid is really a "bad apple" or merely just need of a little extra assistance.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by snowflake_obsidian]

Originally posted by V Kaminski
Seem like perfect candidates for the military... funny how when America needs something "it" happens. An improved economy and education system would lead to independent thinking and critical skills that America currently finds unattractive in the citizenry... sad.

I'm positive that the dropout rate sharply rose once we went to war with Iraq. I mean, I'll bet that the government started pouring "Drop Out Juice" into the water supply and chemically controlled high school kids to drop out.

In actuality, it is the liberal/democrat influence taking a stranglehold on society. Nothing is your fault. You shouldn't have to work hard to get what you want - the government should do it for you. Nothing you do is wrong. Anyone who tells you that you need to grow up and start taking live seriously is stupid. This kind of MTV-propagandist material makes us stop caring about the future.

The Neo-Libs are the real culprits behind all of the world's problems. They want us to be stupid so that government welfare programs will be relied upon, so we can sit at home and smoke meth and watch Jerry Springer and Sesame Street all day. The Neo-Libs want to legalize drugs and prostitution so that we will all be chemically addicted and full of STD's. At that point, we will be too mentally stupid and physically weak that anyone could take us over at any point. That is the TRUE chemical-mind-control project and the true medical-conspiracy.

I say this.

Piss off a Liberal: go to school, get a job, work hard, be successful, be happy

Originally posted by johnsky
What I cant stand is how education in primary and secondary school is geared towards one type of learning.

I was labelled gifted at an early age, and continuously every year of school from then on...

what doesnt make sense?

My marks didnt reflect that. Sure, I never failed anything... but I've never gotten a 90 in anything either.

I was also labeled as gifted to some extent or other. People seem to think I know something. Maybe, I actually do. I don't know. They decided I was supposed to do well in school, even though I didn't. A good number of students even thought I had straight 'A's or something. Even though I generally knew more mathematics than anyone else in my classes, I'd often almost fail those classes, because they were bull#, and I didn't really care.

Looking back, I think I should've dropped out of high school, or at least ditched more class. I could have accomplished so much more in the time I wasted in school, and I wouldn't have acquired so many bad habits. School taught me mediocracy (I.E. doing a bad job on things), lack of passion, lack of persistance, being afraid of defying authoritative idiocy, and relating to other people in the worst of ways. I even made the mistake of going on to college where I learned even more bad habits.

Now, I'm working tirelessly to unlearn all the crap I learned in school. It is all too easy to look back at school, staring at some diploma as a piece of paper that signifies some accomplishment. In other cases, it is hard too admit so much time was all a waste. If life turns only gets worse, then school may looked upon as some light of youth, before your situation got so bad.

Do high school dropouts hurt the economy? Does school help make people productive members of the economy? Does school improve people's ability to perform jobs? If school doesn't, then its only possible importance is to pick different winners and losers of some zero-sum game.

For those considering dropping out of school, I would give the following advice. Do not think merely in terms of schools, college, and job titles. Ask what are your goals? How do you wish to live the rest of your life? What do you want to learn in your life? What do you want to accomplish? Will this change as you grow older? Once you have established this, look objectively, and determine what do you need to do to achieve these goals. With sufficient persistence, energy and will, you can accomplish many things. Do not let schools teach you false limitations. Do your own research, and find out from people who really know.

I was forced out of school by the administration. My counselor used to try talking me into dropping out constantly, i was finally set up and arrested during school, they tried to charge me with trespassing because i wouldn't walk 3 miles home during a tropical storm, the phones were out in my hood, and i was asked to stay after school long enough to miss my bus. When i refused to leave out of concern for my personal safety, the dean smiled, nodded to his secretary, and she called the police. I tried to use the payphone at the other side of the school, and while facing the phone, the cops came from behind, unannounced, grabbed me from behind, and when i turned around ready swing at whoever was roughing me up they start saying i'm resisting arrest, laughing, tossed me against the dor, on the ground facedown, and cuffed me. After all this, i told them i completely refuse to do anything, including walk anywhere with them. They ended up carrying me handcuffed through school.

At a court hearing, the school admin people agreed to drop all charges if i formally dropped out of school, so i did. I tried moving to another school district and re-enrolling in a less concentration camp-like school, but when i showed up, the same dean that had the cops called was there waiting with a copy of he court order. I ended up sneaking my way through to get my GED, and got it before they could stop me. I walked into the GED class, requested a pretest, aced it, and took my test the next day instead of 11 weeks of refersher courses. I missed one geometry problem on my GED test.

A week later I was making $3000 a week programming and debugging in CPM/assembly, circuit troubleshooting to component level on analog circuits. I did a lot of studying aside from the crap school tried to beat me into submission with, so i had my very own "University of Dezertskies" degree.

I would have dropped out a soon as i turned 16, but because my guidance counselor tried to talk me INTO dropping out, i decided to stay for as long as i can and play their game with knowledge that it's exaclty a game. They made life difficult for me, but when they did i worked on overcoming adversity. I had one teacher in the school who actually knew my deal and she was on my side. She was supposed to be my adv. American Literature teacher, but they transferred me to remedial reading to try and make me quit. he used to feed me inside info and gave me good intel sevreal times, avoiding similar setups as the one they finally got me with. I made it 5 weeks into my junior year before being dragged out by crooked cops ( i found out later when they tried to rob me 2 years later, same cop, but i didn't have anything worth anything on me, scary, but in my hood cops were criminals, it was known by everyone, but it still went on regardless because all the cops were crooked from the chief on down).

I finally saw school for what it was though, and it was confirmed through my experiences, a concentration camp/indoctrination center for the youth.

I caught several teachers straight out lying to classes, teaching skewed and spun history, as per the curriculum.

I've gobe through absolute crap with my daughter's schools Beginning in 4th grade.

She has a hearing impairment and subsequent speech impediment, ADD and is extremely bright but considered "learning disabled".

She has been passed ahead to spare her self esteem. She has received a total of three months in a special class back in the 5th grade. Learning assessments, IQ testing and pschologist reports all put her into a set that is well into average. No funding, lack of recognition for her disabilities, lack of time, overloaded classes (35 students per and NO teaching assistance). Fumbled curriculum and absolutely no supports for her hearing impairment other than and FM head set to help her focus.

Now, she in the 11th grade and FINALLY got designation for her hearing loss, finally is getting specialized help through "note takers", modified programs, skills assistance etc...but I had to switch schools for her final year so that she can gaduate, and I had to register her for a summer school course to the tune of $520 CAD!!! for one 6 week course 5 days a week for 3 hours!!!

No accountability on the previous schools part. They will not even admit that her grade school sent them an action plan detailing my daughter's needs as they had been identified and documented.

17 yrs old and she is a language marvel in spite of her hearing loss (learning Mandarin too!!) However she can't add simple number in her head. Cannot navigate spacial equasions...decimals, fractions, division etc etc...yet she's been passed ahead!!! Without any special assistance!!!

I could go on...it's really scary how lazy the education system is...unless you have big bucks. I don't and coming up with fees for summer school was a mess of begging and borrowing...