God created the devil and he can see the future so..

God created the devil and he can see the future so why create the devil. If God knew all the harm the devil would cause humanity, and cause them to fall away from him, which would cause them end up damned for eternity, than why just, not create the devil? Your thoughts?

Heres a few thoughts -
1) God cant see into the future
2) The devil and god dont exist
3) God is an evil god and created the devil specifically for the purpose of tormenting humans. In the end everyone goes to hell and heaven is only a pipedream that dont exist.

There are many theories to your question - which one is right? pick one!


G

I'm not so sure if God can see the future, and I'm the furthest thing from a relgious scholar or authority on the subject. But my belief is that God "created" the devil so that us humans could have free will. God didn't want a bunch of mindless beings just worshipping his ever word and command. He wanted to give us the minds and the free will to make the choice for ourselves- Good (God) or Evil (Satan). It goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, and the Forbidden Fruit and the serpant.

That's just my take on things. I think our God is a fair and just god, even when he/she seems difficult to understand. I often wonder why God would allow innocent children and women to suffer. I wonder why God chooses to take loved ones away from us when we're not ready to lose them. But I believe that part of faith is trusting in that what God does, or what God allows to happen, is all part of his plan or is all for good reason.

All I can do is expect the worst and pray for the best. I trust in God's strength and in his wisdom, and I hope that throughout my existence on this planet that I can make the right choices. And I'm thankful that he gave me the power to make those choices on my own.

Perhaps it was the only way that a creature of free will could be created and redeemed since it would at some point have broken Gods rules and sinned.

Now I cannot prove all of this nor do I know if it is the true reason why, but it is something to think about:

• We know that God created the angels, and that some of those angels fell from Gods grace.
  
• We know that God did not extend the same option of forgiveness to the angles that he has to man.
  
• We know that man is higher in rank and closer to God then the angles are.
  
• We know that man by his very nature is sinful and would have eventually done something to fall from the grace of God.
  
• We know that God gave man instructions to not touch the tree of Knowledge.
  
• We know God put the tree within the garden where man could get at it.
  

God put the ability to commit the sin right in front of man and told him not to do it, so better then ask about why he created the devil why not ask why he created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This goes along with what Rasputin was saying about free will. From this information I can come up with a viable reason why God would do this:

God knew man would eventually sin on his own and if he did it totally of his own fruition then God would not be able to extend grace to man to redeem him. Since we know that the angels fell of their own free will without a third party tempting them and they are not extended the gift of forgiveness, this may be the answer. God may have, in his infinite wisdom, put things together in a way that he knew we would fail almost immediately, but he would be able to rescue us in the end since there was outside interference. So all you have to do to be redeemed is accept the gift that God gave you and you are free of the bondage of sin.

So now its up to each person here to accept this gift. Its sort of a test to see who will go against their instincts of worldliness and follow him, based on faith, of their own free will against all odds. Think about this for a second: if you were God, would a bunch of yes men that follow you because they had definite knowledge of your position, and were created to follow you, be something that you held very dearly? Would you rather have someone that followed you through all kinds of difficulties based on faith and did so of their own free will?

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I often wonder why God would allow innocent children and women to suffer.

Its not God that causes the suffering, it’s the condition of man in sin that is the cause. Man suffers from sin being in the world and usually at the hand of other sinful men. The world was perfect after it was created; it was when sin entered the world that it became altered.

[edit on 4/8/2006 by defcon5]

Actually from a biblical stand point it says that only God knows the future. He can let people see bits of it, as in visions but they cant know that future.

God created the devil and he can see the future so why create the devil. If God knew all the harm the devil would cause humanity, and cause them to fall away from him, which would cause them end up damned for eternity, than why just, not create the devil? Your thoughts?

Actually, God gave man from the beginning ''FREE WILL'' .......that TREE in Paradise was mans choice to eat or not to eat ( that is the question!).....that of all trees they may eat, but ONE was not to be eaten.....it was ONE commandment that God gave to man......
''God commanded man: "of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shall not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen 2:16-17)

GREAT INFO ..LAW OF GOD

The Devil DOES NOT know the future.
Demons do not and cannot predict the future........GOSSIP is their SOLE source of info.....
If people stopped listening to idle talk and looked at their own lives, then demons would not so SECRETLY work with unsuspecting clairvoyants and so called psychics........
Man was made in the IMAGE of God.........God made man from the earth..... God gave the first man the name Adam, which means "taken from the earth."

The BIBLE begins with........
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1)

God created ANGELS........

Creation of the invisible world..........
In the beginning, before the creation of any of the visible world and of man, God created Heaven, that is, the spiritual, invisible world of the angels, out of nothing.

Angels are bodiless and immortal spirits, gifted with a mind, will and strength. God created an innumerable multitude of them. They differ among themselves according to degrees of perfection and types of service and are divided into a number of orders. The highest of these are called the seraphim, cherubim, and archangels.

As defcon5 .quote///Its not God that causes the suffering, it’s the condition of man in sin that is the cause. Man suffers from sin being in the world and usually at the hand of other sinful men. The world was perfect after it was created; it was when sin entered the world that it became altered.

And so, all that was necessary for man to survive was given to him and man violating the commandment of God , fell into sin.
Man was again reunited with God in the person of Jesus Christ .....Jesus Christ destroyed DEATH .
"Death, where is thy sting? Where is thy victory? (I Corinthians 15:55)
Apostle Paul calls death, the "last enemy" (1 Cor. 15:26)

after death comes eternal life........Resurrection.
“For as by a man came death(Adam sin), by a man(The Lord Jesus Christ as the second Adam) came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (I Corinthians 15:21-22).

In order for perfection , God became a servant of man........"the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14).
Our sins separate us from God (Isaiah 59:1, 2),
leaving us spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1).
To save us,
the Son of God assumed our humanity, and being without sin "He condemned sin in the flesh" (Romans 8:3).

IX
helen

The more people question the interventions of the Christian God of the bible with the common sense of humans beings the more becomes apparent that the bible was a human book after all and that the God of the bible was given human attributes including the right to play with his own creation when the Christian God finds himself bored.

So the Christan God apparently though that having Good humans would be boring so the Christian God made Satan to have more fun at playing with human emotions, faith and future.

Since then humans has spend their entires lifes trying to prove themselves questining their own actions so they can be worthy of salvation.

The greatest conspiracy in this world is the God VS Satan, and Good VS evil conspiracy

Some of you may be interested in this website which points out contradictions in the Bible:

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

GeniusSage very interesting site in that link I am reading many of the quotes and to tell you the truth the author of the site does have a valid point about the issues and situations selected in the bible.

That tells you how humanly written the bible was after all.

We great emphasis on male dominance.

The one thing about the Christian God that makes me unable to believe in him is that he would ever consign people to an eternal damnation. If people sin, I agree that they deserve to be punished, but eternity is something I cannot comprehend.

However, if ever, EVER offered the opportunity of Heaven, if it does turn out that everything I believe in is wrong and that this being does exist, I would refuse it as long as there was one other being that was tormented in hell, and that includes Sammael himself.

[qoute]
However, if ever, EVER offered the opportunity of Heaven, if it does turn out that everything I believe in is wrong and that this being does exist, I would refuse it as long as there was one other being that was tormented in hell, and that includes Sammael himself
[/qoute]

I dont beleive in hell. doesnt fit. I take the word hell in the sense of the literal hebrew translation = earth. Or in other words the common earthly grave, or sheol. Punishment being, having to miss out on the eternal love of the next life, not eternal punishment. I think hell in its modern day understanding was a fear control tactic by the catholic church to keep subjects inline. Kinda like our pres Bushy Boy

By nature our God is an understanding one. I think you will see more theifs and gays and drug users in the next life than you anticipate. Many of the "bad people" on this earth have had unthinkable childhoods that ultimately led up to their behavior. Youd have to be a fool to think God wont take that into consideration. Its the completely sane, Ivy league, well off corrupt business men and political leaders that we wont be seing in the future. Just a hunch.



In response to the original post...It pretty much comes right down to free will. Even spirit beings have the ability to do what they want.

And God can see into the future in the sense that he shows humans future events that HE personally will cause to pass. I dont presume to know the thoughts of God, but I dont beleive God can see passed the decisions we havent made yet. Not to say that he cant, it just simply hasnt happened yet.

As is the nature of free will.



[edit on 19-4-2006 by transparency]

Against my better judgement (again) I'll poke my nose in here and provide my own perspective-

There is no eternal damnation. There's no scriptual support for it. Probably the most blasphemous and pernicious false doctrine ever perpetrated.

No one can "prove" themselves worthy of salvation, because none of us are. It's a gift.

And (oh, I'm so going to regret this) yes we make choices. We make hundreds, if not thousands, of choices every day, but that doesn't mean we have "free will". It would take me way more space than I have here to elaborate on that, but I'll leave it to you to think about and explore on your own. Or not.

Here's the BOTTOM LINE from a Christian scriptural perspective-

1) God's will is that everyone be saved.
2) God's will will be done
3) God is love
4) Love never fails

Now you can go through the Bible line by line and attempt to pick it apart, but other than those four basic tenents, it's all detail. Spiritual things are discerned spiritually and the Bible confirms itself. And I'm not talking "accept everything in the Bible literally".

You're not going to get answers from me, or anyone else posting here or anywhere else. You're likely not going to get them from your local house of worship. You'll get your answers about spiritual things from the source, when you seek sincerely and you're ready to receive.

It's not easy. It takes digging and thinking and thinking some more. But if you're motivated, and seek openly and honestly and put in the work, you will get the answer.

You all have my sincere hope that you achieve inner peace. Not my way. Your way. Because that's the only way it will ever make sense.

God didn't create the Devil on purpose so he could wreak havoc on earth.
Lucifer was one of God's favorite angels in heaven, but God commanded his angels to serve man and Lucifer and a bunch of his buddies refused. So they started out good and turned bad. What confuses me is, was Satan Lucifer? Is Lucifer Satan? Did one exist before the other?

Originally posted by logreq
God created the devil and he can see the future so why create the devil. If God knew all the harm the devil would cause humanity, and cause them to fall away from him, which would cause them end up damned for eternity, than why just, not create the devil? Your thoughts?

Ever stop to think that maybe God is an idiot ?? Seriously.....if He is so omnipotent and all knowing then your question deserves more investigation......but lets also suppose that maybe God is NOT omnipotent and all knowing....maybe he is some powerful other-worldly, multidimensional moron ?? Why would He create a world and demand worship and those who do not comply get sent to hell forever (Remember - he gave us freewill right ??). why would He create a world so messed up and not at least show Himself to let His "subjects" know of His presence and His dislike for the direction they are heading in. (if you let a dog run wild....you WILL get fleas)

all in all...my impression of God is that he's a idiotic fool, makes BIG mistakes(and does nothing to correct them), and punishes those who do not follow his will.

Any God that demands worship and praise (which is Ego and Pride) from His followers lest you be tortured for eternity in hell is no God at all.










[edit on 19-4-2006 by Alpha Grey]

That is the modern concept of "God".

Thousands of years ago, a society pondered their existance, this with the lack of understanding of science. (not understanding why crops grow so well at times, and so badly at other times.) This resulted in the very first religion, and the very first concept of god. Whey worshipped their god for decades, asking him to bless them and their crops. Several decades later the village elders argued over the true existance of this god.
Why was it good at some times, providing bountiful cycles, and at other times, evil, allowing bad things to happen.

They made a group decision that the evil was caused by a different entity. The devil.

So to answer the question "why did god create the devil"
The answer is simple. He didn't. We did.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
Some of you may be interested in this website which points out contradictions in the Bible:

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Great site GS, thanks. The contradictions are so many and so obvious, I can't believe so many people still believe in the bible.

As per the original question about God seeing into the future yet still creating the devil... it's a moot point. Christianity has only been around for 2000 years. Before that there were various other religions (Egyptian, Greek, Hindu). They're all just fairytales. Once one religion goes out of style and another takes it's place.

If however I was still Christian, my answer to the OP would be: God created the devil, fully knowing that he would rebel. The devil then tempts us and if we are strong enough to resist the temptations, we are then even more worthy than we otherwise would be (without the temptations).

then this discussion has somewhat transformed. Is there any theological proof of a hell where its occupants are torchured for eternity by the devil?

No. :shk: Not a shred.

Just as a note.....a good reference bible weither your a beleiver or not is the New World Translation. The only bible to never reference hell, actually uses Jehovahs name, etc etc. Most widely used by Jehovahs Witnesses, so if one shows up to your door they're free, all you gotta do is ask for one.

Originally posted by transparency
Just as a note.....a good reference bible weither your a beleiver or not is the New World Translation. The only bible to never reference hell, actually uses Jehovahs name, etc etc. Most widely used by Jehovahs Witnesses, so if one shows up to your door they're free, all you gotta do is ask for one.

If a Jehovahs Witnesses shows up at my door preaching their (stuff) I WILL (offer them Tea-n-Crumpets)!!

Who do they think they are coming to MY house to peddle their "God" ??

All Jehovahs Witnesses's are (my friends and welcome in my home)!



(Mod Edit: to remove threats and other inappropriate statements)



[edit on 20-4-2006 by kinglizard]