It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Owls and Weaving Spiders

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 07:22 PM
link   
The owl effigy in Bohemian Grove is a representation of Athena/Minerva, the greek/roman goddess of war, knowlegde, and various other things which escape me right now. The BG motto, "weaving spiders come not here", is a line from shakespeares midsummer nights dream, from the character Puck the fairy king, set in Athens. I personally believe that the line alludes to the story of Arachne the weaver who challenged the goddess Athena to a weaving competition and beat her. When Athena didn't like it she smashed Arachne's loom and turned her into a spider (hence arachnephobia and arachnids). I think the message from the BG motto is plain and simple, we are your gods and if you try contradict us we will destroy you. Incidently, the hegelian scociety, had a periodical called "the owl of minerva". The owl symbol seems to feature a lot in the illuminati scheme of things. If you beleive Alex Jones they're even building office blocks in the shape of owls. The bible describes owls as abominations, although probably for their carrion nature. Please forgive my wanderings. Its late.




posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 09:12 PM
link   
Oh nimrods son, didn't you know that owls, pyramids etc. are "only symbols" and non-occultists should, "get over it".

It's only things like The Ten Commandments that should be banished from everyones sight and mind.

The greatest danger to the moral and ethical health of society, is of people picking up the message that it's wrong to lie, steal and murder.

Everyone must learn that, 'their own will is supreme', and that they will never be asked for an accounting.

How can this happen if Christians keep reminding folk of Christ's, great nation building advice and warnings of how to avoid ultimate destuction?

Now learn The message; ALL Occult=good, ANYTHING Christian=bad.

I have countless posters on ATS to thank for this 'correction' in my thinking. If it wasn't for them, I'd still think things like, "truth, justice and life are important".



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 09:24 PM
link   
Sorry, the owl does not represent Athena/Minerva, the Greek goddess of wisdom. It represents Moloch, an ancient (I think Caananite) deity. He was represented by a giant owl with a large mouth which children were put into and burned as a sacrifice. If that doesn't cause chills to run up and down your spine, I don't know what would.
I have this on good authority from a friend of mine who's father led the owl procession as a member of the BG.
The weaving spiders refer to the fact that no work or business is to take place at the Grove, something which these days is pretty much ignored.



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 09:46 PM
link   
check out this link

www.cremationofcare.com...

''The Babylonian moon Goddess 'Ishtar' (from where the Christian festival 'Easter' relates) can be seen here along side the two Molech owls and two (sun representing) lions. ''




even configurations of the streets over the capitol '' the all seeing eye''












you can also read spiders come not here






bohemian grove partys in the middle of the redwood forest in california are bad news



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 05:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by forestlady
Sorry, the owl does not represent Athena/Minerva, the Greek goddess of wisdom. It represents Moloch, an ancient (I think Caananite) deity. He was represented by a giant owl with a large mouth which children were put into and burned as a sacrifice.


I am afraid that the Athena/Minerva association is probably closer to the truth. It is harder to place the owl as Moloch/Molech. This Canaanite deity was usually depicted as a bull-like creature. Does the deity have an actual identity or is the fact that children are sacrificed to it enough to say it is Moloch/Molech?

This thread may help:
Moloch/Owl?


[edit on 23-4-2006 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 11:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by Beelzebubba

I am afraid that the Athena/Minerva association is true. It is harder to place the owl as Moloch/Molech. This Canaanite deity was usually depicted as a bull-like creature. Does the deity have an actual identity or is the fact that children are sacrificed to it enough to say it is Moloch/Molech? Is the term a verb rather than a noun?

This thread may help:
Moloch/Owl?


What are your sources saying that it is Athena? I've spent literally years researching this, my dad used to go to the BG gatherings - and I've never seen anything that said the owl represented Minerva/Athena. Further, do some googling and you will see that Moloch (also Molech, Malcom) was also represented as an owl, the owl most likely being the feminine aspect of Moloch. The entire ritual in front of the owl is done as closely as possible to the ancient Canaanite ritual to Moloch, including the fire inside the statue to sacrifice children to, also the ritual includes an effigy of a baby.

Please see my post: Bohemian Grove Myths/Facts,
in which Nygdan and I discuss the statue. You will see that he asked me what deity the owl represented and I said I would find out, which I did. It was Moloch - this information I received from a good friend who's father was a long-time BG member and the only guy to ever lead the owl ritual two times, everyone else only led it once.
I have never come across any articles or books which say the owl is anything else but Moloch. They may be out there, but I haven't come across it and I've read almost everything there is to read about the BG.

-Forestlady




[edit on 9-4-2006 by mrwupy]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 05:21 PM
link   
Here are some links that will provide the link between the owl and Athena:

The Greek Athenian Owl

Athena's Symbols

Athena

Animals and Witchcraft

Moloch may indeed be an owl deity, but I can find no reference to this in any Biblical studies.

Catholic Encyclopedia

Jewish Encyclopedia

Wikipedia states that owl/moloch connection began with Alex Jones.

Another site that claims to uncover the secrets of B.G. is:
Jesus is Savior. This site perpetuates the Athena/Minerva connection.

As does this one:Bohemian Grove

I did not think that the B.G. Owl had the fire in it's belly, rather in front. There are no outstretched arms in which to place the sacrifice. The statue is made of stone, not bronze.

I could not find any reference to a feminine aspect of Moloch/Molech/Molek, could you please provide a link?

All the Sites on the web that create this association (Moloch=Owl) are con related. I prefer to use historical reference.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 05:43 PM
link   
You consider Wikipedia and the Bible to be historical sources? I've found many mistakes on Wikipedia, as have others. In my book, Alex Jones, Rense and prison planet are not reputable sources. The Bible is not historical fact, either.

I read your sources, which told me nothing new, being a Pagan, I am well-versed in mythology and also in familiars that are owls. The owl does not belong to Athena alone, that is just one view of the owl. The things written about the Grove are mostly assumption, not solid facts, because they weren't there. The actual people who did sneak in have their own opinions about the interpretation of the symbols and events.

What can I say? I related what my friend told me, he had no reason to lie to me. Either you believe it or you don't, I really don't care.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 06:01 PM
link   
As I stated above, Moloch may well be an owl deity but outside of your say so and that of Alex Jones inspired con sites there is no evidence. I do not consider Wiki as 100% reliable but in this case it covers all the references to the God and is quite accurate. I consider the Bible and the Talmud to be good sources for this information because this is where we find the earliest and only references to Moloch (not because I'm some kind of bible thumper).

The fact that the common scientific name a large variety of owl is 'Athene Noctua' shows that this is the deity that the owl is most commonly associated with.

Please, do not be offended, I would just like some further reference. For instance, can you provide a link that states the owl is the feminine aspect of Moloch?

Also, Moloch being a fire/Sun God would kind of rule out the nocturnal owl, wouldn't it?



[edit on 8-4-2006 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 02:11 AM
link   
As you found Wikipedia to be unreliable, here are some other Encyclopedic descriptions:


Encyclopedia Britannica -

Moloch - a deity to whom child sacrifices were made throughout the ancient Middle East. The name derives from combining the consonants of the Hebrew melech (“king”) with the vowels of boshet (“shame”), the latter often being used in the Old Testament as a variant name for the popular god Baal (“Lord”).


Baal has never been represented as an owl, rather a bull.



Columbia Encyclopedia -

Molech

(m´lk) (KEY) or Moloch (m´lk) (KEY) , Canaanite god of fire to whom children were offered in sacrifice; he is also known as an Assyrian god. He is attested as early as the 3d millennium B.C., although most known references to him come from the later period represented by the Hebrew Bible, according to which Solomon and later Ahaz introduced the worship of him into Judah. He had a sanctuary at Tophet, in the valley of Hinnom S of Jerusalem. Milcom may be identifiable with Molech.



Oxford Reference Online -

3. Moloch
a Canaanite idol to whom children were sacrificed. • [as n.] ( a Moloch ) a tyrannical object of sacrifices.
(From The New Oxford American Dictionary in English Dictionaries & Thesauruses)


The 'Brazen Bull' which many Christians were burned alive in may also have been a representation of Moloch/Molech.

Outside of the sources I stated earlier, I can find no reference to Moloch as an owl.


This book I recommend to anyone interested in Moloch/Molech(If you can find a copy that is):

Moloch


[edit on 9-4-2006 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 03:15 AM
link   
This link has a good description of Moloch:

Moloch

The Encyclopedia Mythica states that there is a belief Molech is not a god but a form of sacrifice:

Sacrifice

I think the Athena/Minerva association is apt. She is a goddess of war and wisdom, the two traits most needed in the world of Statecraft.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 11:22 AM
link   
Lets be clear about this. As much as I admire Alex Jones work, he is wrong to associate the owl effigy with moloch. The bible which is pretty much the only historical document to mention moloch in such detail and clearly states that moloch was a statue of a bull and the ceremony associated with moloch was the "passing through the fire".

The picture of isthar above with the two owls...what makes you say that they are moloch owls? Ishtar, minerva, and athena were always interlinked with one another. Just different names as time went by, a bit like how the illumitati keep changing the names of their organisations...bilderbergers, cfr, G8, UN, and so on.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 05:25 PM
link   
Right there with you nimrods son.


The use of the god Bacchus in the ritual at the Grove would also show a preference for the Roman & Greek Pantheon, wouldn't it?


"The Cremation of Care Ceremony was produced as a play in 1920, wherein a High Priest standing before a huge pre-historic alter, is confronted by Dull Care wrapped in the chains but not dead because Bacchus, the only warrior Care fears, is truly dead... Care responds: 'Call Bacchus from the grave... long as he is dead. I sneer at Great Bohemia! Aha! Aha!'... Good Fellowship then takes the torch from the priest at the alter and burns Care in his prison, thereby purging the 'demon Care from the sacred Grove.' This ceremony has been rewritten on several occasions but the theme is still the same." [The date given, 1920, seems to be a typo as the ceremony was first created in 1893. He also lists two separate dates for the addition of the owl shrine: 1920 & 1929] - PEHI


I apologise for hijacking the thread, please continue with your discourse. The reasons for the Athena/Minerva association are many. Why does it have to be a certain deity (Moloch) that is having (mock) sacrifice offered to it. The ancient world was full of sacrifice, to many and varied deities.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 06:57 PM
link   
My connections of owls and goddesses has always tended toward the Jewish Lilith..even with all her different names..



www.wombrose.co.uk...



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 07:28 PM
link   
Lilith, from the Sumerian Inanna/Ishtar, once again the Athena connection.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 08:50 PM
link   


This ancient cameo was given to me as a gift and was represented as being lilith?



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 07:49 AM
link   
Thumbs up to Beelzebubba for excellent research. Likewise, I've never seen any association of the owl with Moloch, except by modern conspiracy theorists, and then, only because of Bohemian Grove.

The owl was indeed sacred to Athena, and is why the owl had become a symbol of wisdom in classical literature.



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 08:03 AM
link   
Any wise words on why owls would nest years after year in an unused chimney? They give me protection, and I see nothing evil is them past or present, they keep the rodents GONE..
Athena--Greek
Lilith--Jewish..
Perhaps it was an anti-semitic thingie, as Jews have always been hated since time immemorial.
Lilith was there with Adam if we go that route..Was Adam a Jew?
When did Athena show up?
Not derailing this thread, just covering all I have heard of..



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 09:51 AM
link   
Its actually surprising that there aren't more ancient sources connecting 'moloch' with owls and other sorts of things, other than a bull. Moloch is similar to the semitic word 'malik', and is thought to mean cf 'king' or even, sometimes, 'angel'.

The only god that is actually named Moloch is from the bible, he is one of the gods worshipped amoung the Isrealites, though by a specific group called the Ammonites. In the bible Moloch is represented as a Bull-like idol that seems to function like a furnace, as described by Forestlady.

Lilith is associated with birds, and in jewish folklore she is a demoness who causes wet dreams, eats babies, and gives birth to other demons.

The owls, as a group, are called 'strigiformes', in the scientific classification, this is a latin name and a 'stryga' is a demon-monster-witch-thing, and this is probably because, well, they're scary. They're prefectly silent in flight, make spooky noises, are active at night, and eat vermin.

Lilith, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with the god Moloch from the bible, nor with any other 'molochs'. Nor athena, unless we accept that lilith is represented as an owl in particular (rather than a bird in general, or a crow, vulture, etc). But even then, Athena and Minerva are goodly goddesses, not baby-eating demon-witches.



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join