Russian military is going strong

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I don't understand how these 4:1...10:1 comparisions have been maed for WEstern vs non-western a/c.
One can understand if the comparisions have been made between a/c of the same AF(F-15s vs. F-22s).
Did the Typhoon go up against the Luftwaffe MiG29s? How good are the Luftwaffe MiG 29s?
Do they have serious BVR capability and top- notch Ruskie radars? (Zhuk M Phazotron)

I agree with Lawnmover man in his assessment that most (if not all) MiG 29s that have gone down in combat have been flown by less competent AFs flying planes which are defintiely not in prime condition.

You want to look at seriously capable MiG 29s? Try the new ones Lawnmower man mentioned in service with the Russian AF. Infact you can even try the not so latest ones with the IAF (MiG29A/B/S). They're equipped to carry the R-77 amraamski with a range of 80+ km and they have the new ZhukM phazotron radars. A simple google on these missiles and radars will give you a better idea of the a/c capabilities.

And if you're looking for recorded engagements between these MiG 29s and 4th gen a/c, then yo uwon't find any kills/losses because there haven't been any instances of authorised engagements. Though there has been one instance in the Kargil war(1999). The MiG 29s were flying escort for the Mirage 2000H fighters and they came across PAF F-16 A/Bs flying CAPs for NLI divisions of the Pak Army. Both a/c were on their resp. sides of the border but:

PAF's plight was exposed during the Pakistan army's incursion into the Kargil sector of Indian Kashmir in the summer of 1999. Analyses by Pakistani experts revealed that when the rubber met the road, PAF simply refused to play any part in support of the Pakistan army, angering the latter. While PAF fighters did fly Combat Air Patrols (CAP) during the conflict, they stayed well within Pakistani air space. On occasions, IAF MiG-29s armed with the deadly R-77 BVR Air-to-Air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage. In the absence of a PAF threat, the IAF was able to deliver numerous devastating strikes on intruder positions and supply dumps.

Source

This was confirmed by both sides as it is catalogued as a lock-on at acig.org
Scroll down right to the bottom of the table and check out the 2nd last entry in pink:

ACIG.org


P.S: I did a little research and found out that the EF Typhoon is actually replacing the Luftwaffe MiG 29s.

You can get these numbers by looking at and comparing radars,equipment etc one F/A 22 could kill many more F 15's vs Su35's although they only tried 5 against one but it can take on much more. I mean it's not impossible to compare.

Ok .. maybe I agree with the F-22 bit since its been tested against a/c like the F-15 which in turn can be compared to western a/c. If the Typhoon has undergone similar testing then we can compare.

Originally posted by urmomma158

Originally posted by LAWNMOWERMAN
that may be the case, i will admit "sadly"

that the MiGs track record in combat is very "poor" still

but my point is this

if you were to put an ISRAELi pilot behind the cockpit of an MiG-29SMT or SU-35/37 up against an SYRAIN pilot behind the cockpit of an TYPHOON as an example

8 out of 10 times the ISRAELi pilot would come out on top in an engagement willing to bet

what good really would the TYPHOON be in "combat" if it can not be "operated correctly" by a highly skilled pilot just as it can be said about the the MiG-29

how irrellevant british pilots are well trained i dont see why you are making this assumption

you lost here, not sure what you mean? by your last quote

in general my stance was simple

in an "engagement", it would still clearly come down to the "skill level" of each of the pilots
as i stated before

the "kill" would go to the "best pilot" not to what was "viewed" as the "better fighter" "on paper"

thats not an "assumption"

my only disagreement was the "wording" of the statement that a TYPHOON would destroy the MiG-29
to me, that sounded like that was almost a "given guarantee" to where you could turn around and say now that was an "assumption" too

never stated that the MiG-29SMT was better than the TYPHOON or vice versa

the TYPHOON is very complex platform and would take a "skilled pilot" to shot down a MiG-29SMT just as it could be said for the MiG-29SMT

my point in my last statement was that if the "MiG pilot" was better than "his opponent", then the MiG pilot had the "out most chance" to win that engagement and it did not really matter what his opponent flew.

so you mean tell me that a skilled BRITISH pilot behind the cockpit of an a MiG-29SMT could not shot down TYPHOON manned by a "lesser skilled" pilot?

but in all well taken