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Force Field Against Anti-tank Missiles and RPGs

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posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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On the Fox News website in the "Only On Fox" section there is a video titled "Use of Force". It is about an Israeli invention called "Trophy". Trophy is supposed to be able to disable the warheads on anti-tank missiles and RPGs while they are in flight. This has the effect of creating a "force field" around a vehicle or helicopter that prevents damage from these weapons. From what the video says it attacks the warhead directly, the weapon may kinetically strike the vehicle but the warhead won't detonate. If this is accurate RPG's and anti-tank missiles may have gone the way of the Dodo.







Fox News




posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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Great invention.Someone will more then likely now come up with something more powerful and more dangerous to counter it.

I guess the need for the ability to crush a house unimpeded was very high.



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Trophy System

The above link provides more information on this system. I don't know if this has already been posted on ATS.



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
From what the video says it attacks the warhead directly, the weapon may kinetically strike the vehicle but the warhead won't detonate. If this is accurate RPG's and anti-tank missiles may have gone the way of the Dodo.


Not at all. All you do is switch to a sabot-design of rocket, designed entirely around concentrating all of it's force into penetration. In fact, perhaps sheath it in a catalyst which will react chemically upon impact for some super-heated liquid metal to be sprayed about the inside of the hole created after impact.

Damage to the tank? Relatively minimal. Damage to the crew and instruments inside? Fatal.



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Not at all. All you do is switch to a sabot-design of rocket, designed entirely around concentrating all of it's force into penetration. In fact, perhaps sheath it in a catalyst which will react chemically upon impact for some super-heated liquid metal to be sprayed about the inside of the hole created after impact.



The follow-up article that I posted states that they are close to defeating even kinetic warheads. Maybe the rocket design you suggest may or may not work against the Trophy system, but I think that as long as it is effective against the most common threat, the RPG, Trophy is worth its weight in gold.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 02:08 AM
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excellent find jimc this is a secondary confirmation of said technology floating around.... there was another thread awhile ago stating a german company had developped the same tech. I'll try and dig up the old thread and tag this thread that one and a couple others together.

edit: and yeah pure kinetic weapons may have a better chance of achieving kills against this system like a previous poster said. As any interdiction is dependent on two systems that give a first generation system of this type it's weak point.

1. you gotta generate a charge to electronically intercept the weapon incoming: in this catergory you are most probably using pulsed power generation which although is close to instantaneous is not,

2. Detection systems: With current power generation techniques you can't produce a constant field that would give you the desired effect. Therefore you need a sophisticated sensor suite to determine when it's needed and then to automatically start the charge/discharge cycle of the field in time to intercept the incoming ordnance short of the vehicle hull.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by astral_ice]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 04:28 AM
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yah already posted - link about the Trophy system.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 08:33 PM
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UGH!

FOX News strikes again! Posters here should know better than to be taking info from that site/channel.

The Trophy system is NOWHERE near ready for field use. It's not clear if it will become reliable enough to consiter fielding any time soon. Listen to that report a little more carefully.

"Trophy has been successful in two tests."

TWO! That's out of hundreds of trials.
Key problems with the system that may or may not be overcome:
- It is easily overwhealmed by multiple incoming weapons. All you need to do to defeat it is have 3 guys fire at the same time.
- Claims that the warhead of an intercepted weapon would be disabled are right up there with the Patriot. It's not reliable. It's a luck based defence. RPGs general can be fired armed. If the rocket is not struck directly, the warhead is still more likely to detonate on impact than not.
- Possible to defeat with a ROCK! This thing tracks and fires on incoming solid objects. It can't tell what those objects are. Enemies could use slingshots to hurral rocks into it's detection radious before firing real weapons in order to deplete it's ammuntion.

This is still a bluesky project that may or may not see practical use. It's arugable that better forms of reactive armour would be more cost effective and reliable.

Oh... another thing they "forgot" to mention. Those RPG casualties (second highest cause of death for US troops) are almost entierly against Humvees and other light armour. An RPG round would barely even be noticed by a tank. There's man portable weapon systems that can defeat tank armour... but the only people in Iraq that have 'em is the US.

One should treat FOX News like an 80's action movie. It's entertaining, but should NEVER be taken seriously.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by BitRaiser]



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
UGH!

FOX News strikes again! Posters here should know better than to be taking info from that site/channel.

The Trophy system is NOWHERE near ready for field use. It's not clear if it will become reliable enough to consiter fielding any time soon. Listen to that report a little more carefully.

"Trophy has been successful in two tests."

- Possible to defeat with a ROCK! This thing tracks and fires on incoming solid objects. It can't tell what those objects are. Enemies could use slingshots to hurral rocks into it's detection radious before firing real weapons in order to deplete it's ammuntion.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by BitRaiser]


The information in the Fox News was sketchy at best. That is why I posted the follow up article from the Defense Update website. This article states that the Trophy system has completed hundreds of live tests with the IDF.

Unless you can throw a rock 200 miles per hour I think that the radar system can tell the difference. Don't let your opinion of Fox News cloud your judgement.



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
This is still a bluesky project that may or may not see practical use. It's arugable that better forms of reactive armour would be more cost effective and reliable.


Interesting term ' blue sky project " however you have used it incorrectly. Blue Sky refers to weapons research which will revolutionise warfare, such as 4th generation pure fusion weapons, matter/anti-matter anihilation weapons or nuclear isomers.

As for the Trophy system, the Istraeli's are shrewed operators, they don't invest in junk nor do they waste money. If they are installing it on their Merkava 4's and other APC/AFV's then there must be some merit to it.
If the the AFV is attacked from several sides at once, then the units on those sides will deal with the threat simultaneously - it won't be overwhelmed.



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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Guys, sorry to even further burst your collective bubble, but Trophy is a "re-manufactured" Shtora and Arena type defense system.

Rafael division in Israel does in fact produce such equivalent, because the plans were "acquired" from a Ukrainian T80UD plant, and do to practically non-existent intellectual property laws in Israel, a French Rafael division can manufacture such a system in Israel in accordance with laxed Israeli laws, and the market the product world wide.

No beams, no lasers, just what Russians have been working on for years, made in Israel by Rafael. Thus the apparent fragmentation problems.

For years Russians could not make the system safe for the infantry while retaining its anti-missile effectiveness, and therefore could not field the system safely along infantry units.

Information regarding the means by which they finally solved the problem, apparently did not "make" its way into Israeli hands, thus the stated "problems".

SAT.



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
Guys, sorry to even further burst your collective bubble, but Trophy is a "re-manufactured" Shtora and Arena type defense system.


You're joking I hope. The Shtora system resembles nothing like the Trophy - it uses a variety of devices to spoof guided anti-tank missiles, not physically destroy them and as such is completely useless against unguided weapons such as RPG-7's.

As for teh Arena system, it seems it may never have been deplyed or developed to an operational state. Whilst the idea is the same as the Trophy it didn't have 360 degree coverage and seems to be somewhat less effective.


Rafael division in Israel does in fact produce such equivalent, because the plans were "acquired" from a Ukrainian T80UD plant, and do to practically non-existent intellectual property laws in Israel, a French Rafael division can manufacture such a system in Israel in accordance with laxed Israeli laws, and the market the product world wide.


Hmm, the idea of this type of active defence has been bandies around cetain countries for years. Saying it's stealing is like saying, everyone stole the assault rifle from the germans ( Stg-44 ). Also, the Isreali's have actually produced a woring reliable system, seems the ERussians gaven't especially since they don't appear to have deployed them in either Chechan Wars.



For years Russians could not make the system safe for the infantry while retaining its anti-missile effectiveness, and therefore could not field the system safely along infantry units.

Information regarding the means by which they finally solved the problem, apparently did not "make" its way into Israeli hands, thus the stated "problems".


BTW, do you have a link to the website where you got this inforamtion from ?



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 04:56 PM
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Unless you can throw a rock 200 miles per hour I think that the radar system can tell the difference.

Thus why I suggested using a slingshot.


Don't let your opinion of Fox News cloud your judgement.

Boy is THAT a tall order. :p
Naw, my issue is that I've been following the development of this project for awhile. I'm not saying it's worthless or not going to become a field element... I was pointing out the massive holes in the FOX story. They are a terrible source of information since even when they do report on something interesting, their focus is on making it sensational rather than actually saying anything.

Originally posted by mad scientist
Interesting term ' blue sky project " however you have used it incorrectly. Blue Sky refers to weapons research which will revolutionise warfare, such as 4th generation pure fusion weapons, matter/anti-matter anihilation weapons or nuclear isomers.

Sorry, industry bleed. When I said "Bluesky" I was refering to the term "blueskying" as in dreaming up stuff with no practical limits.



posted on Apr, 23 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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Hi mad, since you have repeatedly stated you simply will not accept anything anybody says unless they simply repeat it from some web site and post a link to it, there you go;


As for teh Arena system, it seems it may never have been deplyed or developed to an operational state.


Here, a BMP-3 with Arena-E.


The upgraded BMP-3 turret with the ARENA-E active protection system and the latest surveillance systems.


www.army-technology.com...

Personally I find your treatment of other members views to be belittling, insulting and disrespectful.


FOX SUCKS.

edit: FOX SUCKS

[edit on 23-4-2006 by iskander]



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 01:07 AM
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Duplicate Thread

Let's focus discussion of the Trophy system in this thread:

Stryker Trophy System Destroys RPGs at First U.S. Live-Fire Tests

If anyone disagrees with this decision, please let me know.

Thread closed.



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