New Iranian-made stealthy submersible fast torpedo boat

I was going thru the pics of the recent iranian wargame, then I saw a wierd-looking fast boat. I share the pic with you guys.



things I noticed about this boat:

1.I can see the periscope on the top, that will stick out of the water once the boat is submerged into the water.

2.The water splash behind the boat is pointing to a much powerful engine.

3. tubes on the hull, reminded me of tubes on top of iranian-made midget sub

4. three(3) crew members

I am suspecting it to be a submersible fast torpedo boat.

but someone else on another forum speculated it to be a hydrofoil.

this may very well be the stealthy boat, iranian naval commander was referring to, speaking after test fire of Iranian shkval missile, called hoot.

"The boats that can launch this missile have a technology that makes them stealthy and nobody could recognize them or act against them," he added.
www.washingtonpost.com...

look at the vessel, shkval is being fired from. from this angle, the rear end looks very similar.



I would like to know what good does a submersible fast torpedo do?

Is it stealthy? what I mean by that is if it is hard to track the boat til it reaches the torpedo (shkval) firing range?

Is it possible that it could go underwater as it gets within the range of enemy defenses and close to within 7km of enemy ships and fire the Iranian version of shkval missile?

Informative Comments Welcomed

KEEP IT REAL

[edit on 7-4-2006 by proprog]

Originally posted by proprog
I was going thru the pics of the recent iranian wargame, then I saw a wierd-looking fast boat. I share the pic with you guys.

things I noticed about this boat:

1.I can see the periscope on the top, that will stick out of the water once the boat is submerged into the water.

that is a radar housing , not a periscope

2.The water splash behind the boat is pointing to a much powerful engine.

that huge wake is characteristic of a hi speed low vis attack boat - NOT a submersible

3. tubes on the hull, reminded me of tubes on top of iranian-made midget sub

they remind me of the WWII era elco boats and others

4. three(3) crew members

so what ?

I am suspecting it to be a submersible fast torpedo boat.

that is your opinion , if it is true - where is the air intakes and exhaust system ??

if you are planning to go submerged , semi submergered - you need to adress this issue - that craft is NOT submersible - in its present trim

but someone else on another forum speculated it to be a hydrofoil.

i disagree - the uper works are desined to be low vis - and operate " wet " - thats not compatible with a hydrofoil -

also your huge wake - is incomatible with a hydrofoil - the props / water jets on your craft are very close to the surface

this may very well be the stealthy boat, iranian naval commander was referring to, speaking after test fire of Iranian shkval missile, called hoot.

at last we agree - it is indeed a low profile boart - desidged to operated at hi speed in open water - with minimal radar and visual signiture

i expect that that radar housing will be able to retract flush to the deck - or recess into a protective pod

"The boats that can launch this missile have a technology that makes them stealthy and nobody could recognize them or act against them," he added.

I would like to know what good does a submersible fast torpedo do?

very little - your claimed hi power engine is incompatible with submerged / sem submerged operations anyway

Is it stealthy? what I mean by that is if it is hard to track the boat til it reaches the torpedo (shkval) firing range?

stealthy yes

able to carry shkvall - NO - read the specs for that missile - its far too big for a boat of this size

what you are looking at is a short range missile or 12 inch torpedo -

Is it possible that it could go underwater as it gets within the range of enemy defenses and close to within 7km of enemy ships and fire the Iranian version of shkval missile?

no - it cannot go under water - nor can it carry shkval - why are you obsessed with this one missile ???





[edit on 7-4-2006 by ignorant_ape]

That “boat” is about as operationally submersible as a house cat and is as stealthy as my mother in law.


Let me guess (without reading any further)….super stealthy "uber boot" involving technology that only a few nations have achieved, auto-radar avoidance piloting system, secret ‘homemade’ crazy missile platform, carries the new inflatable satellite guided airplane killer torpedoes, faster than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound……




mg

I think someone here is really eager in denouncing the fact, that there is a interesting boat in this picture. "über", or not...

I don't now if it is a submersible, but I find it interesting in it's design. I will surely bet on, it is a fast-moving vessel. And the tube on the side, is very likely a torpedo-tube.
The reason why I am unsure of it's submersible/semi-submersible capabilities, is that I see a hatch. Why the need of a hatch on an open speedboat. Next to the two foremost crewmen, there is also a 'mount', where the flag is situated, why cannot this be a air-intake?

I believe this vessel isn't created to be in need of a periscope. It's got radar! Nor was it built to be submerged for an extended time, therefore, it isn't neccessary to have 'state-of-the-art' expensive electronics. (Except the radar/target aqusition/guidance system)
And i'll bet'ya what I can see in the vessels aft, is a steering fin, to be deployed when diving.

Based upon the picture posted above, I would say that the small vessel may actually be a hydrofoil testbed.

If you will take note of the square projection to the stern of the craft; this could easily be a rear hydrofoil strut in the stowed position.

Also, about 3m from the bow there seems to be a large wake/turbulence being generated - possibly by a forward hydrofoil strut. (Some military hydrofoils are designed so that the forward strut is always submerged and cannot be raised - for simplification of design and maintenance).

Finally, the large wake/turbulence being produced by this craft (in its wake) seems to indicate to me a possible waterjet propulsion system, or some sort of supercavitation propeller system. There seems to be way to much wake for a standard inboard engine for a boat of this size.

I would also venture to guess the boat runs on diesels, not gas turbines, as there does not seem to be any large air intakes of any sort, nor is there a large heat exhaust/plume present.

A small, simple to product hydrofoil might be a natural choice for the Iranian naval forces, or more specifically....the IRGC.

first of all, thanx for your contributions.

ignorant_ape

the periscope I was talking about is the camera that sits close to the open hatch behind the two crewmen and right in front of the greenish flag. you'll find it if you look carefully.
my guess: as the boat submerges into water, camera is elevated to avoid water, as well as the radar dome.

It can certainly carry torpedos. As Ulvetann indicated, it is very likely that the 2 tubes on the side are torpedo-tubes, and judging their size from the size of crewmen, I believe they could even carry shkval . otherwise, they have to go under water to fire torpedos (correct me if I'm wrong)

The other thing I noted about this was the presence of a hatch that suggests the boat could submerge into water.

I just had a close look at the picture of the vessel, Iranian shkval was fired from. if you look closely, you could actually see the folded fins.

Pyros

one thing I do not understand about the design if it is indeed a hydrofoil, is lack of outdoor view. why should the crewman go, sit inside the boat during the op?

whatever it is, I like the design

To the people who do not have much to contribute, just read the others' posts.

KEEP IT REAL

Originally posted by proprog
my guess: as the boat submerges into water, camera is elevated to avoid water, as well as the radar dome.
--[snip]--
The other thing I noted about this was the presence of a hatch that suggests the boat could submerge into water.

Good grief…why is this boat considered a submersible…why…a hatch?

Originally posted by proprog
they have to go under water to fire torpedos (correct me if I'm wrong)

No they don not, that is what a (using old WWI slang) “torpedo boat” was/is all ‘about’.
And now suddenly it’s a “hydrofoil”?...arrested bow planes somehow now make this coastal/brown-water/harbor boat a hydrofoil…

Originally posted by proprog
KEEP IT REAL

Really…..


mg

Now if said "boat" had enough room for batteries and a sealed propulsion system - might it not be able to adjust it's buoyancy and lay in a brown-water-shallows wait like a crocodile?... Use compressed gas and or foils to raise up, plane out and strike a target passing in range? Nah, only westerners are devious enough to think that way. LOL. Seems to have a hold plenty-big enough for just about whatever "nasty" they choose. Manned or unmanned, autonomous or tele-operated, boat or whatever... a weapon is a weapon - and in battle it must be neutralized.
Ever seen how fast a powerboat bilge empties in forward motion (full throttle) and all the drain stops opened? Pretty quick.
If these folks have some device like that and it works then - I tip my hat to such innovative low-buck thinking... but I have max comtempt for a world that needs such things.

[edit on 7-4-2006 by V Kaminski]

Some of you guys are reading to much si fi and also need to spend more time on the waterfront.

The clear " hatch is just a observation blister. In any submersable vessel..you are looking for a type of control mechanism which gives it submersable capabilitys..a tank bouyancy system..vent valves ..blow and vent system like on a submarine. Vent to submerge and blow to come up. this boat has neither.
The "torpedo tubes on the side will tend to make it ...non stealthy.
If you were to dive this boat at speed and submerge you would go to crush depth quickly judging by the front shape of the boat..you wouldnt be able to dive it at speed judging by the shape of the bow.

As to that picture of the missle leaving the tubes and being launched into the water..by my years on the waterfront ..this is not being launched from this "torpedo boat or a warship but from a river barge. Just a plain olde river barge like you see going up and down this river all day and night long. Ive seen enough of them to know. You see the two posts for tying off the lines back where the bright rocket blast is occuring and also the front of the barge where it angles up from the water. What clears it up for me is that along the side of the barge is a rim..it is about 8 to 10 inchs of half round steel...welded to the side of a barge to serve as a bumper or fender to prevent damage along the length of the barge..this is standard barge design. Ive been around enough of them to know.

THis boat may be a fast boat..it reminds me of what we call a cigarette boat..by the way the stern is designed. Like pyros I tend to think it has some kind of high speed stability system..perhaped like a ocean liner with its stabilizers..extended at speed to keep it stable...or hydrofoil.

I dont even think this boat is constructed of steel. At best aluminum.

Thanks,
Orangetom

If you go under with that hatch open, you're going to flood the boat and sink it, never to see it again. It's going to let massive amounts of water into the hull. It's simply a cover to protect the mast when it retracts into the hull. It MAY be a small hydrofoil, based on the large fin on the back.

A torpedo does NOT have to be underwater to fire. Why do you think destroyers and cruisers carry torpedo tubes?

There is no way this boat submerges OR carres a Shkavl(sp?). I read somewhere the Iranian version was 10% bigger than the Russian. Ths thing can't carry either version. It's too big.

I dont think those rocket torpedos that are being discussed are light in weight either. Not suitable for launch on this type of vessel.

Thanks,
Orangetom

A few observations:

• Not large enough for substantial batteries, therefore semi-submersible at best.
  
• No visible snorkel at the rear, so possibly not even semi-submersible
  
• Covered top and low profile probably to reduce radar signiture
  
• Size insufficient for major weapons such as Moskit and Shkval
  

It seems to be a new FAC for delivery of small munitions by speed and stealth... although i hesitate to say stealth really because my guess is that this thing is going to announce its presence accoustically in a rather distinct manner.

Seems like the role of this vessel would be in swarm tactics slightly analogous to what General VanRiper did in the wargames before Iraq, or perhaps to play an interdiction role against commercial traffic which is not easily answered by airpower due to the relative difficulty of locating highly mobile vessels which are at least somewhat difficult to find by radar (as opposed to using something the size of a corvette which is easier to see, moves slower, and needs a somewhat decent port to put into).

I'm no naval buff though, I'm just making observations and trying to apply what seems sensible to me to what I see.

submersible powerboats DO exist. I recently helped on a project looking at a submersible RIB for a european country. This boat has some of the features of that design, though it is hard to say for certain without better pictures from multiple angles if this is one or not.

Paperplane, this sounds interesting, have any more info about these semi-sub. speedboats?

This Irani boat really reminds me of a military varsion of the saudis Victory 1 and 2- Powerboats

I would say, that the size of this vessel, is to 'clumsy'/big to be a 'ordinary' speedboat. I also find it interesting, that the boat has slits on its upper hull, like those on 'real' subs, to pump water/air out of.

I really liked a former posters perspective of it being an 'alligator', laying dormant in the water, just beneath the surface. This vessel is after all not intended to go down on deep water, imo. -No need to worry about implosion of the hull because of any external pressure.

If those tubes mounted on the sides are torpedo tubes they must be really small, weak, and short ranged. Judging by the height of the crew (I assume they're 180cm tall) the tube is about 2m long. Torpedos are usually 7 - 9 m long. The Schval is 8.2 m long.

It's interesting that the hatch seems transparent and bubble shaped. That could be for underwater but you never know...

the one we looked at had a near standard rib base with a large cover over the cockpit area. It had ballast tanks that allowed to to submerge just below the water and proceed at a couple of knots underwater (had an optronic periscope. It was designed to do pop-up attacks (sitting just under the surface wating till enemy is in close) and covert survilence

We did model tests on it to calculate surface and subsurface resistance

Originally posted by Taishyou
If those tubes mounted on the sides are torpedo tubes they must be really small, weak, and short ranged. Judging by the height of the crew (I assume they're 180cm tall) the tube is about 2m long. Torpedos are usually 7 - 9 m long. The Schval is 8.2 m long.

I agree, that the size of the assumed torpedoes, aren't that intimidating. On the other hand, miniaturization has come a long way, and size is, imo, relative. This vessel has, again imo, not been designed to attack aircraftcarriers, as conventional attacksubs has the possibility to do.
I believe this 'Alligator' would be able to attack merchantships, and smaller transport-vessels.
Purely tactical, the problem with the 'Alligator' would be, that it is easily spotted from air. It doesn't matter if it is surfaced, or five feet under. I'll bet you all, that if a plane (any) spotted it, the crew would soon enough be six feet under...

If I was Iran, I would have to paint it black (the vessel), to be able to deploy it during nighttime raids. It is more or less a swimming duck during daytime.

But I would like some more ideas to the weaponry on this vessel. How powerful can this small-sized torpedo be? Any ideas?
I believe they should make a MK.2 of this boat. -Only equipped with Hellfires. That would be, imo, better than 2 torpedoes, and three AK-47's.

that boat is about as submersible as the eiffel tower.1 if it was submersible then the torp tubes would at least be hydrodynamic if not fitted in the hull.
2 the hull if submeged would keep wanting to surface , especially when you open her updue to the hull desighn.3 not sure whats going on with the coms masts but they certainly wont survive more than 5 knots submerged 4 as for the aft console position it looks more like a massive munition as opposed to a munitions carrier

Not a submersible the front is not shaped right.
the hull is a high speed planing type and the front rake would not allow it to submerge you have to have the same angle above the rake.
the one in the photo would plane every time bow went under water.

and the plates on the side look to be stern stabilizing planes that allow the boat to make high speed turns without rolling over.
plus they would stop the bow from raising high in the air.
this would allow the torpedoes to be fired level.

all this is is a armored fast torpedo boat.
the top is armored to protect it from shell fragments
many navel guns use proximity shells on targets like this. they are designed to explode just above the target spraying the crew with shrapnel

The hatch is most likely 1 inch lexan or one of the other armor plastics like are used on fighter aircraft canopies
this would protect the driver and still allow him to see where he was going.

the torpedoes are likely small short range types like the US mk46 mk50alt or the British Sting Ray torpedo

12.75 inch 330 mm (13") Kolibri torpedo from Russia is most likely what it fires. i am basing the diameter on the length of the forearm of the crew-member being about 15 inches that would also make the tube about 3 meters long. and it is a russian copy of the US MK46 torpedo.