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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Do you think there is a possibility that sometime in the future science will create/engineer a new Messiah, and present him as the true Savior?
Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
I've seen this idea before a few times; the one I remember most clearly was in a Star Trek: TNG novel, of all things () called "Kahless". I won't go into the details of the story, in case anyone wants to read it without it being spoiled, except to say that it is quite relevant to your thoughts above.
Definitely one day we will have the ability to clone people, I think, or otherwise grow people. What this will mean for religion, I don't know, but as for my own personal beliefs, I believe that the true Messiah will not come because of anything man can do or will do, but rather that it will be God's hand. I could see maybe someday a 'messiah' being created to do just what you say, i.e. try to convince the world that he/she is the savior of humankind. Maybe that's how the antichrist comes about... after all, isn't the antichrist supposed to pretend he's the real thing?
How would we be able to tell if the person was genuine or fake? I think that a fake would be easily found out. The true Messiah would be somebody who didn't commit any sin. (ex: Jesus Christ, in the Christian faith) So if the so-called Messiah did anything evil at any point in time, then you would know that they were an impostor.
Even something little, like cursing at somebody who cuts you off in traffic, is not something that the true Savior would do.
If somebody could manage to impersonate the Savior to the degree that they could pass the 'no-sin' test, then, impostor or not, they really would be a boon to the world. Imagine having a political leader with real morals, for example...
Originally posted by Astyanax
Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Do you think there is a possibility that sometime in the future science will create/engineer a new Messiah, and present him as the true Savior?
Meaning what?
A new guru-type figure with enormous charisma who will start a new religion? I don't think anyone has found a gene for charisma yet, but you never know.
Or do you mean a human being with real, superhuman powers? I'll believe you can engineer a human being who can swim underwater without breathing apparatus, so if that's superhuman enough for you, maybe. But if you're talking about the ability to walk on water, or turn the stuff into wine, there's never going to be a gene for that. But then you don't need a gene, you just need James Randi.
But if you mean, will human beings one day help bring God -- not some fake Messiah but the genuine Divinity -- into existence, I suspect the answer could well be yes. But we may have to hang around for a few billion years before we know for certain.
Originally posted by Atomic
Your "new messiah" would run into the same problems the "old messiah" had. People would want to kill him. If I shoot him what would the created messiah have accomplished.
The created messiah would have to fullfill or explain away the Book of Revelation to believers. Your created messiah would have to have answers, his intellect would have to be unprecedented. He would have to appear as a "theif in the night".
He would have to explain his original stay on this planet and prove it scientifically. Where are your apostles buried Lord? Where is your step-father/mother buried Lord? Where is this and show me your name on that? Let us see you walk on water, turn water into wine...etc.
I think creating a messiah is impossible.
Originally posted by Atomic
2many...
I don't understand I guess. You are saying create a messiah, yet the messiah is going to have to 1) prove he is the messiah 2) follow what was written in the bible and attributed to him 3) demonstrate godly powers.
I can create a clone of Hitler, Michael Jordan, JFK, Mother Teresa...that isn't the issue. The returning messiah is not (according to the Christian account) a man, he will not do "man-ish" things.
He's suppose to be the son of God, but he doesn't know where the apostles are buried? That seems small potatoes compared to his feats of walking on water and bringing back the dead.
I think your messiah exists already in some people in the church and in some not affiliated with the church. I consider many Buhddist monks to be messianic in nature, some believe in God, some take the teachings of Christ to heart also. I don't see the difference between those people and your created Christ if he doesn't demonstrate supernatural powers. I think Mother Theresa did many godly things, but she never showed godly powers, nor did she infuse the church with millions of converts. How is your created messiah different?
I don't think you can create a "messiah" because the messiah is not human like us. Jesus "got away" with being human and supposedly did many miracles. How can your created messiah fullfill the prophecies people expect and perform miracles? 7 BILLION people will be testing him and watching his every move, and the church's move after he claims to be the messiah.
Your front man messiah will be attacked. Jews will attack him, Christians will attack him, Muslims will attack, the world will attack him. Yes some will believe in him much like those who believed in David Koresh and many other cult leaders. I see no difference in your creation other than you think the Roman Catholic church will be supporting him and help fool everyone.
If you want a create a messiah, then you better create one with the backing of an alien race that has advanced powers. People will want magic, people will want to feel good, people will want answers, and people will want to see heaven and probably lost loved ones. Quite a trick to pull off and I don't see how you can do it.
Originally posted by forestlady
A fake Messiah, isn't that the job of the anti-Christ?
Originally posted by phiniks
People, in the light of this subject; yeah, the expectations of alot of people will be to see a messiah perform miracles and healings.
But what is the "Power" behind the miracles and healings done by Jesus, as descibed in the bible? The Power of God and the power of the belief in God and that Jesus is His Son.. and not some supernatural power Jesus himself was supposed to have. God is the one who performs the healings and other miracles. The only thing Jesus had to do was speak a few words or spit in a blind man's eyes and things like that. Even a woman is described in the bible.. she believed that just by touching Jesus' robes while the man walked by would heal her.. and she was healed.. because of her faith. Not because the robe had powers.
Even the cloths of (I think it was) Peter are described to have been used by people to heal.. not because the cloths had any power, or Peter had, but because of the faith in God.
Originally posted by Atomic
I see the anti-christ as being something different. He/she may not even know they are the anti-christ.
I see a personality that speaks intelligently but says look: "God exists, but he's what you make it. He is not interested in controlling us here and wants us to be happy. Sure Jesus spoke wise words, but do we even know that he existed? Sure Mohammed and the Buhdda were great teachers...but where are their gods? Our world is falling apart and we look to god. God has allowed us to fail and we have...now is the time for change. This is what we need to do, stop looking to god...GROW UP! Here is a new way of thinking, let's try these tools out that I have developed...
Something along that line. The anti-christ is going to be an appealing individual. He is going to make sense. What we have to be careful of is what is his goal? What kind of people is he creating? Will he unify the world because we all drop to a lower secular style of basic spirituality? He has to be successful in some way.
The other possibilty is that the anti-christ is someone who does all these things not for everyone, but for a very large select group that feels persecuted. The poor are those who most likely will take heart to someone that sells them hope and revolution. I think of the Venezuelan president right now that sells a fairy tale to his people or the Iranian president that stands strong and says "Muslims are strong, enough with the West!". Jesse Jackson snows people at times too...as does George Bush.
I fear that an economic collapse (maybe based on oil) will breed this person. Perhaps they provide an energy solution to those that will follow his words. People will do anything to protect their kids and not face hardships...a person that plays on this and convinces them that god exists, but is failing us will have quite an audience. He then could easily begin his plan of creating humans in his image.
Ok that's just my initial thoughts...so if I was rambling, sorry.
Originally posted by Merger
Im sure in revelations it states about 'the image of the beast' and the power to give life to the image so it could speak.....in genesis god created in 'his' image....ok..so lets duplicate that here.. 'image' mean duplicate...perhaps clone?
False prophet will want to make a clone of the beast.....the clone will talk *duh*..however due to sciences of fracturing of the mind/split personalities etc... it is totally possible to indoctrine this figure to make him believe everything tought..
Now christ...possible another clone figure...from research i found that cloning of humans was perfected in 1927 in germany...long time ago...
It is totally possible to clone the christ figure....indoctrine him for full agenda of religion...and thus being messaic......he is a puppet.
Anti-christ can have the same principle...except be opposite in teachings
Overall? Its going to happen, whether real or not..its going to happen.. If revelation is not prophecy, it will definately be a script.
beast having 7 heads.. one wounded... 7 heads = 7 personalities... one wounded...personality removed, replaced..healed...
Food for thought.
Merger
Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Do you think there is a possibility that sometime in the future science will create/engineer a new Messiah, and present him as the true Savior?
Originally posted by Enkidu
Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Do you think there is a possibility that sometime in the future science will create/engineer a new Messiah, and present him as the true Savior?
It won't make any difference to me, since I don't believe in the "old" Messiah/Savior, so unless the new, false Jesus tells all of his wacky believers to kill all heathens, it doesn't really affect me.
But look at it this way. Every time the wind blows a different direction, somebody creates a new, "true" Christian church with sometime slight, sometimes huge differences of opinion with whoever current church authority might be. What would likely happen is that half of the people would go along with the new Christ, and half would not. It would be like a stock split. So you could either choose to believe this new guy, or stick with the Original Jesus, or go with one of the newer models.