It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Lost Gospel Revealed; Says Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him

page: 5
0
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 10:16 PM
link   
Oh yes and lets also not forget the front page "Cover Story" from this last week's USA Today on the Judas Gospel. Advertisers cannot even BUY that part of the paper, so why do you think they made it their top story? Seems fairly irrelevant from a news perspective, considering all the crap going down in the USA.

Hmmm...

[edit on 8-4-2006 by smallpeeps]




posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 10:47 PM
link   
The Gospels were all written at least 250 to 300 years after the fact. Anyone that tells you differently is blowing all kinds of multicoloured smoke up your ass.

With a flashlight.

And a map.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 04:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by Knights
"Pure BS", "Illuminati Cover up"

The document was dated back to those days.. Just like the lost sea scrolls and other similar documents. As we 'gobble' it up, look at the way you so speedily disregard such information as rubbish because the Bible says so. At the end of the day alot of the Bible was creatred through similar scrolls. Many of you seem to be blinded by the 'truth' (in their eyes, and can't comprehend what they are reading isn't true. The fact of the matter is that many of the things in the Bible are not 100%.. maybe the Judas story is wrong and he was a hero. Don't be so blind.)


You're right dude. You shouldn't wear blinders when reading the Bible.

It is not made by God...it was made by man...and man makes mistakes...there are no perfect humans.

The Bible...was also written and edited during the Middle Ages...or more aptly name Dark Ages, when the Catholic Church stole the knowledge and learning from the people.

For those who don't know it, the Bible was intended to be left as an open book, meaning not stopping with a certain book, like Revelations...so they could add to it...as time progressed and people's mind opened to new concepts and new ideas.

I learned that, from My Greek teacher, who was a 30 student/scholar/teacher of both Greek and Hebrew.

Also...for someone to truly understand all the concepts of the Bible...

You must have an entire library full of books relating to the customs, rituals, analogies, anagrams, codes, wording, history (there's stories behind all of those stories in the Bible)...you name it.

The Greek and Hebrew language is all about numbers too.

Every single letter, has a number equivalent.

My Greek teacher was a number cruncher...someone who could be given any two sets of numbers, and have a mathematical answer within mere seconds.

Also...anytime it's written..."And God said..." that was the Elders of the Hebrew Community adding something they'd learned from a happening.

All this I learned from My Greek Teacher. He's a devout Christian, family man, and Deacon of the Church.

So...only looking in the Bible...and only reading what's between the covers...makes you narrowminded or closeminded...you only see what is in front of you...not the rest of the World around you.

Why do you think that most victims are "good Christian people"...because they avoid "Worldly Things"...when Jesus said "Go out into the World and preach to the people who do not know of Me and My Father...God".



[edit on 9-4-2006 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 07:53 AM
link   

posted by SpartanKingLeonidas:


posted by Knights: "Pure BS," "Illuminati Cover up" . . The document was dated back to those days . . Just like the lost Dead Sea scrolls and other similar documents. As we 'gobble' it up, look at the way you so speedily disregard such information as rubbish because the Bible says so. At the end of the day a lot of the Bible was created through similar scrolls. Many of you seem to be blinded by the 'truth' (in their eyes, and can't comprehend what they are reading isn't true. The fact of the matter is that many of the things in the Bible are not 100% . . maybe the Judas story is wrong and he was a hero. Don't be so blind). [Edited by Don W]


You shouldn't wear blinders when reading the Bible. It is not made by God . . it was made by man...and man makes mistakes . . there are no perfect humans.


The theory of divine inspiration of the Holy Writ is bolstered only at 2 Timothy 3:16-17. I have read that it is just as correct to translate that verse to read, “All inspired scripture is of God.” Sure, you would still have the endless arguing over what is inspired and what is not. But look, as it is now, the so called “fundamentalist” in all Christian denominations use this verse to cut off debate. I dropped out of Philosophy 101 but I recall the professor said there are few to none arguments you can win if you grant the opponent's premises.

Jewish tradition regards only the Torah - the five books of Moses - the Pentateuch - as inspired by God. Yet, Christians, who can barely spell Pentateuch, have asserted all of the Hebrew Bible - our O.T. - is inspired. Wow! The Holy Bible - which is not the same everywhere, anyway - was the creation of Emperor Constantine, around 325 AD when he called the Council of Nicea. You know the story, he wanted 50 copies of the same bible to put in the 50 churches he was to build in his new capital, Byzantium re-named Constantinople. Uniformity was his mantra, not exactness.


The Bible . . was also written and edited during the Middle Ages . . or more aptly name Dark Ages, when the Catholic Church stole the knowledge and learning from the people. For those who don't know it, the Bible was intended to be left as an open book, meaning not stopping with a certain book, like Revelations . . so they could add to it . .


Note 1st, this was the first “church” council called since James and Peter called Paul to task some 280 odd years earlier. Note 2nd, it was called by the Emperor and not by the Bishop of Rome. Note 3rd, it was held in Nicea and not in Rome. We know the Nicene Creed resolving the major issue (Trinitarianism) to come out of Nicea 1. What we don’t know is just what the original Nicene creed says.

To my best knowledge the sole surviving Christians - as those who follow Christ - holding to the original traditional and constant Jewish doctrine of monotheism, is the Universalist Unitarian Church. All others who call themselves Christians are polytheistic, no matter how you shake it or deny it. Entirely in keeping with popular attitudes prevailing in the dominant Roman culture. Look in any Catholic Church. You'll find the cult of saints alive and well. How anyone can argue this is not polytheism escapes me. Look under the alter, you'll find the worship of relics, alive and well. Old Roman ways die hard. It is not against the law to be polytheistic. Admit it. Be proud of it if that is your persuasion or preference. But it is absurd running to the ludicrous to deny it.

Aside. Consider this, too. First, the Bible instructs each congregation to have overseers. A/k/a bishops. A/k/a Presbyters. a/k/a Elders. It speaks of this office in the plural. When Paul arrived in Rome around 55-60 AD, but almost certainly before the Jewish Revolt of 64 AD, Paul makes no reference in any of his letters to “the” bishop of Rome. Or of any bishops of Rome. We do know Paul was allowed to speak to other Christians in Rome, during his imprisonment so if there had been a bishop of noteworthiness, I can’t imagine Paul not referencing the fact and his name.

Second, in a city the size of Rome in the first century, there were probably many congregations of Christians. Each congregation would have had its own bishop or overseer, probably in the plural. I’m satisfied the so-called “fathers of the church” historical rewrite - each city with one overseeing bishop - was a medieval invention. It is well known that the claims of the Catholic Church vis a vis the first couple dozen of Bishops of Rome are entirely specious. As is also the recent Church declaration that Peter’s bones are buried under the Basilica of the same name. Good stories die hard. Or a wish list.


“ . . as time progressed . . people's minds opened to new concepts . . new ideas. I learned from my teacher - a scholar of both Greek and Hebrew . . for someone to truly understand all the concepts of the Bible . . you must have a library of books relating to the customs, rituals, analogies, anagrams, codes, wording, history - re's stories behind all of those stories in the Bible . .


Absolutely! It has just been the last 20-30 years that we are finally getting a “handle” on our own history surrounding the War of Rebellion of 1775-1783. Frankly, on that topic for one minute, I am now seeing it, calling it a coup d’etat. Our much idealized founding fathers stole the 13 colonies from King George III. Contrast our so-called “Revolution” with a real revolution - dramatic change in fundamental relationships - with either of the French Revolution or Russia’s October Revolution or Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution. Now there is real, fundamental change.

Yes. I like to cite the story of Jesus at a place variously called Gadarene or Gergesene, where a man possessed by many demons was self destructing. He solicited Jesus’ aid in ridding himself of those demons, which Jesus obligingly did. For unstated reasons, Jesus put the demons into a nearby herd of pigs, which promptly ran over a bluff crashing into the Sea of Galilee and drowned. Let us not lose site of the fact it was pigs and not goats or sheep that were destroyed.

Now - in 2006 - you and I know this is not a true story. Yet, the Catholic Church to this day practices exorcism based on this story. Ignoring the work of Freud and those following. That’s called institutional inertia. Ref. Matt. 8:28-34, Mark 5, at v. 9 and on, and Luke 8, at 30 and on.

I contend the people to whom this story was originally told and retold knew it was not a true event. Yet, in their culture in the First Century AD, it was received as imparting some message which frankly, escapes me. But I feel confident it did not escape the hearers. Fact and fantasy were mixed in that era. Today, we prefer to sort out fact from fiction. In many respects, we are ‘Legion’ today! But self imposed! I like to goad ‘true believers’ by asking why Christian psychiatrists do not stock pigs in their office? Oink! Oink!


. . you name it. The Greek and Hebrew language is all about numbers too. Every single letter, has a number equivalent. My Greek teacher was a number cruncher . . someone who could be given any two sets of numbers, and have a mathematical answer within mere seconds.


Well, S/K/L, I’m not too much into numerology. A long time ago my first introduction to numbers came to me in a critical book debunking the use of the measurements of the Great Pyramid as a means to foretell coming events. The author pointed out how it is only by hind-sight can we “read” the numbers. This lesson has stood me in good stead with the contemporary Devinci Code, endless references on History Channel to Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce to name the ones that come to my mind. It is only with hind-sight - always 20/20 - that these fellows can be called capable.

By the by, I have also read that we misconstrue the Hebrew concept embodied in the word “prophet” and to properly understand it, we should substitute the word “preacher” every time we see “prophet” in the Holy Bible. Recall again, the books of the O.T. (And NT, too) were written long after the events they are reporting or recording. For generations these stories were perpetuated in oral tradition. Also recall that fortune telling - future telling - was a stoning offense in the O.T. Plus, we can’t even agree today on what happened in the 2000 election! Wow!


Also . . anytime it's written . . "And God said . . " that was the Elders of the Hebrew Community adding something they'd learned from a happening.


It is as if the speakers had said, “And this truly happened . . “


All this I learned from my Greek teacher. He's a devout Christian, family man, and deacon of the Church. So . . only looking in the Bible . . and only reading what's between the covers . . makes you narrowminded or closed mind . . you only see what is in front of you . . not the rest of the World around you. Why do you think most victims are "good people" . . when Jesus said "Go out into the World and preach to the people who do not know of Me and My Father . . God."


Well, that requirement of evangelism has caused the deaths of millions of aborigine people when mechanically advanced Europeans came to loot the land and convert the people. I do not believe Jesus ever said that. It is not consistent with First Century Judaism as I have heard about it. I don’t know when it was added to the Holy Writ, but I do not believe it.

[edit on 4/9/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:16 AM
link   





By the by, I have also read that we misconstrue the Hebrew concept embodied in the word “prophet” and to properly understand it, we should substitute the word “preacher” every time we see “prophet” in the Holy Bible. Recall again, the books of the O.T. (And NT, too) were written long after the events they are reporting or recording. For generations these stories were perpetuated in oral tradition. Also recall that fortune telling - future telling - was a stoning offense in the O.T. Plus, we can’t even agree today on what happened in the 2000 election! Wow!


Also . . anytime it's written . . "And God said . . " that was the Elders of the Hebrew Community adding something they'd learned from a happening.


It is as if the speakers had said, “And this truly happened . . “


All this I learned from my Greek teacher. He's a devout Christian, family man, and deacon of the Church. So . . only looking in the Bible . . and only reading what's between the covers . . makes you narrowminded or closed mind . . you only see what is in front of you . . not the rest of the World around you. Why do you think most victims are "good people" . . when Jesus said "Go out into the World and preach to the people who do not know of Me and My Father . . God."


Well, that requirement of evangelism has caused the deaths of millions of aborigine people when mechanically advanced Europeans came to loot the land and convert the people. I do not believe Jesus ever said that. It is not consistent with First Century Judaism as I have heard about it. I don’t know when it was added to the Holy Writ, but I do not believe it.


[edit on 4/9/2006 by donwhite]


I understand where you are coming from and why you may disagree, but there are things I didn't include in there.

For example...I go into chat rooms and learn about different countries and cultures, before I go to them, and ask questions, that lead to question, that lead to more questions, that eventually lead to the answers I want...to figure out how other people in other countries understand things, what influences their thought processes, etc.

Now...do you think many of the people who were "Missionaries" or "Crusaders" did this? Well...no...there was no internet...and they just didn't care.

It was "Repent and beg forgiveness of God, swear Allegiance to the Church of Blah Blah...or die" back in the Dark Ages...or in Modern Times..."You're a Heathen and going to Hell", etc.

There's so much said and not said in this, that I could point out, but I only have so much time in a day to post here, so I am selective as to what I type here.

Glad to see someone else doesn't let the blinders cover their eyes.

By the way...I talk about Jesus and what He did, the path He walked, and the concepts He lived by, through My own personal life experiences.

I don't preach to people, but engage them in conversation and tell them how I think and feel about things, and slowly open their eyes to...

True Knowlegde of God and True History



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:36 AM
link   
the earliest of the "gospels" as far as I know is The Acts written by or at least
attributed to Saul the killer of the church. the others are either written by
or plagerisms of followers of Saul not the teacher. with the exception of
the book of John which is truely of unknown authorship. Of the many possibilities are Mary M., Lazarus, Johanna, ... . The likelyhood is that it is
a redracted version fron a Johnannite sect.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:39 AM
link   
Leonidas///



All this I learned from My Greek Teacher. He's a devout Christian, family man, and Deacon of the Church.


Hi
Whether your teacher is a devout Christian or not is between God and him......not you or anyone else knows his TRUE intentions.
Just because he is in the CHURCH does not make him speak the TRUTH!

I know that, and the end of times, when the time is right, the Antichrist will USE people of the Church and religious leaders to DISTORT the Bible.......
EXACTLY what is being done TODAY .......

The CHURCH was placed by CHRIST.
Jesus Christ appointed leaders in the priesthood......
"Apart from the Bishop no one is to do
anything pertaining to the Church"
Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans 8:1-2




"For it is written in the book of Psalms [Psalms 69:25, 109:8], Let his [Judas Iscariot] habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take."
(Acts 1:20)


People will do and say many things to destroy TRUTH......a true believer will do only what is right and LOVE all that is given to him to SUFFER....BEAR HIS CROSS!!!
to carry ONES CROSS , is to bear all that is given to you.....through hard times and good times.
..............
LEADERS IN THE CHURCH

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
(2 Thessalonians 2:15)

IX
helen



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:39 AM
link   
SpartanKingLeonidas. My penchant for cutting to the chase - as I see it - can sometimes upset the people who I am "editing.” Sorry about that. No mischief meant. I pick and choose the points or questions that interest me. I copy that into my post for the convenience of my readers only. Maybe I should not?

By the by, I’ve edited my own posting.

[edit on 4/9/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:44 AM
link   
No offense taken...at all.

I was only straightening out what I thought was maybe a misconception, or misunderstanding.

Only talking back and forth with you. As for the other poster who said My Greek Teachers intentions are unknown...well I know them.

He's waiting for Jesus to come back...before he starts telling the mass populace about what I posted here on ATS.

I specifically asked him why he didn't straighten out the people who have been lieing, or covering up the lies of the mis-printed Bible...among other things.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:55 AM
link   
Quote from Leonidas///You said that ..............he was
''Waiting for Jesus Christ to come back?

Jesus Christ will show up right before Judgement day!
When we least expect Him............

The Antichrist will/must show up first.......




"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped,
so that he sits as God in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God … And now you know what is restraining (Divine Grace and Providence), which does not allow his appearance.
that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; More below......


The Antichrist

IX
helen



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 10:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by helen670
Quote from Leonidas///You said that ..............he was
''Waiting for Jesus Christ to come back?

Jesus Christ will show up right before Judgement day!
When we least expect Him............

The Antichrist will/must show up first.......




"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped,
so that he sits as God in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God … And now you know what is restraining (Divine Grace and Providence), which does not allow his appearance.
that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; More below......


The Antichrist

IX
helen


Yes, you got that right. My Greek Teacher told Me...that he's waiting for Jesus Christ to come back, because Jesus will be smart enough, talk elloquent enough, and be able to make everyone see the lies they have been told by everyone in control...not to take control from the controllers, but to give control of Earth back to the populace.

To change the entire World.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 10:23 AM
link   
Leonidas.....

Jesus Christ will not come to MEET the people.
He has already been here and through His resurrection has done what He had to do....DESTROY DEATH.

When He does appear, He will not begin the process of doing what He has already done.

IX
helen



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 11:52 AM
link   
This is becoming quite a very interesting theology discussion

First: Seraphim Serpente

My previous notes you picked to respond to are just examples I used of
secularism, and it's master, weaving interlocking misconceptions to cloud the issue and breakdown the message of Faith and Hope. Not beliefs I hold or respect, but then I have some out there beliefs, and figure many will be surprised by the time the end rolls around.

As for your other points, they are well taken.

I have some difficulties in rebutting them, since out of context scripture is the problem of Christianity today and the reasons we have 40 or 50 Christian groups, all thinking otherwise from eachother, but each claiming to be right. The offering a Verse vs Verse response does little to benefit any of us. It just tends to confuse, which of course, is to Satan's delight.

But reviewing you messages, you do have some Biblical Background, and knowledge of the scriptures, which is excellent. Maybe your thoughts could be put forth, and allow for those with an interest in those ideas, to review and read the scriptures themselves.

And in closing, I mean no disrespect to you in this. It's just an observation and suggestion, for the reasons stated. I see others likewise offer the same, and the funniest are the "Pro-Rapture" people. One little verse, contorted to claim exactly the opposite of what the entire paragraph indicates but thats Christianity today. Devisive, and Arguementive rather than just following the message God gave us. Too busy in pettiness and rightousness to simply read Gods word he gave to you.

Second: Mary, Mother of Jesus and her Burial Place.

There are many claims to what happened between the Events that took place in the Temple, when a young Christ confronted and disucssed the scriptures with the Preisthood. Christ from that time, until he is 30 some years old, is not documented.

Many say, Jesus was from Nazareth, but it is difficult to comprehend how cousins would not recognize each other. John the Baptist, was Christ's Cousin, through Elizabeth. He was three or so months older than Christ, so you would tend to believe, they would have known eachother, and when Christ presented himself for baptism in the Jordan, John would have seen and known Jesus was next.

But John did not know it was Jesus.

After the events in the Temple, a Young Jesus, and his Mother and Joseph, left and went with another relative, by the name of Joseph of Aramethia, who was a wealthy Merchant. Not only this, he was a miner, and a miner of tin to be specific. Jesus and his family left, for fear of reprisal from the Preisthood.

So now, we come to Glastonbury England. There is a little pub whose Crest above the Door is Joseph of Aramethia with a Young Lad in his boat. Jesus? The Locals will say so. Joseph of Aramethia held land titles of many mining lots producing Tin for Trade purposes. These Land Titles are held in Roman records. In Glastonbury, there is a Church, which has a Fallen structure on the Lot. It is said, according to the lore, to have been where Mary was built a Church, for lack of a better word, by Joseph and Christ.

Who gave Mary a Tomb to put Christ in? Joseph of Aramethia.

After the the events on the Cross, and the resurrection, where is it Mary would go? Home and this makes perfect sense, but again where is home?
Not Jerusalem, Not Nazareth, but Glastonbury.

We do need to also remember. Travel by Sea, during this time, was not quite so primitive as Sceince and History suggests. People from the Old World left their marks on this continent long before Christopher Columbus
was born. (America B.C. by Barry Fell is a good Intro to this) so travel to England would be nothing.

John the Relevelator is suggested to have his tomb in Ireland.

Saul/Paul made it too England as well, and it is funny how the 28 chapter of Acts, does not revel the customary Amen, Pauls other writings contain. We do not find this Amen until chapter 29, which was ommitted from the KJV.

Chapter 29, covers details of a Visit Paul made to England (which makes sense why Paul's Catheral is in England) and he notes his mission was to bring Christianity to England, but he found, it was already there.

This is courious and baffling. How can some Pagan Island, under Roman Rule, have the context, and understanding of Christianity embedded in it's people, when this message was never brought to them previously????

Christ taught that message during his 15 to 20 years living there.

So, this may seem far fetched, and something strange, but Her Grave is there, as are the graves of 4 Apostles.

E Raymond Capp wrote a bit on this in the "Traditions of Glastonbury". It's a good read to get the basics. Other sources are also outhere, but I'll leave this for some to research on their own. Is it the truth???

Makes you wonder why Glastonbury today is a center of Pagan delight? The master would do nothing more than wish to confuse this, as he does with his other works. To distort what is truth, into the realm of fiction, and spin a fanciful tale of Plausibles and Possibles, so mislead followers, step into that trap.

Ciao



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 01:36 PM
link   
Those comments on the Coptic & Gnostic Christians got me thinking. Is it not possible that there was this Man (His real name is the source of a lot of Controversy - but I think that you know who I am talking about) that through his Learning/Effort/Action/Healing/Teaching/Trials that certain cultures decided to later give him the title = Ultimately BECAME Incarnate/Manifest into "Christ" - that is to say the Spirit/Word/Mind of GOD. That he was Initiated, Enlightened & eventually Anointed into "Christhood" through the events of his Life & Death - just as Siddhartha ultimately became the Enlightened Master "Buddha" within his lifetime.

Both had their own unique Teaching - a new System of Spirituality if you will. Buddha had the Dharma - which leads to Enlightenment. Christ has the Gospel - which leads to Salvation. The only condition is that both are applied correctly (unfortunately Abuse of any Doctrine is not unknown in this World). I have belied this is true for a while now.


[edit on 9-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 02:17 PM
link   


I've always wondered why there were so many apostles, but only 4 gospels. It looks like someone wanted to cover something up, and use certain books to their advantage. Wasn't it Constantine who decided what would go in the Bible and what wouldn't?


Yea he did, what actually came about after the Nicene council in 325 a.d not sure about the correct date, that's where we have The mess of Christianity as it is Today, no consistenecy at all, and various sects and denominations pitting themselves against each other, and each prophesying they have the Truth, etal. Maybe religions is the Babylon of revelation.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:21 PM
link   
The interview where Craig Blomberg pinpoints the years is in Lee Strobel's book, A Case For Christ. The book is really amazing. Everyone should read it. He is exactly right that the first four gospels actually were written 2-5 years after Jesus's crucifixion.



posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 09:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by kegs
The Gospels were all written at least 250 to 300 years after the fact. Anyone that tells you differently is blowing all kinds of multicoloured smoke up your ass.

With a flashlight.

And a map.

Wrong....Blomberg explains that the book of Acts ends before Paul's death which was in AD 62. The book of Luke was kind of like the first part of Acts which puts the book of Luke even before AD 62.



posted on Apr, 10 2006 @ 08:47 AM
link   
There is an older thread on this topic:
Judas Gospel To Be Published




top topics



 
0
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join