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Lost Gospel Revealed; Says Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him

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posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 10:27 AM
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I am going to watch this on TV, but haven't read the 'gospel' in question yet.

But isn't it interesting that matter of salvation? Because I think that's why so many Christians may react angrily to the gnostic texts and attempt to complicate the issue. Most Christians want their salvation to be nice and simple to grasp.

They want a nice wafer in their mouth, or a nice clean system of heaven and hell, etc. Most of them do NOT want to have to use their own reasoning skills (join the group is the messsage) or make hard decisions. Most paths to Christ are paved very simply with giant blinking arrows pointing in the right direction that are labelled "Salvation This Way! >>>"

But what was that about the broad road leading off into destruction and a narrow, cramped road and door to life? Few are the ones finding it?

Does Christ just want you to follow the leader? Does he want you to sit in the pews and be a bobblehead? I'd say he wants you to dig in the texts (and into your heart) to find true love and true goodness. When you do, you will find yourself acting like Christ in your every day. You will be kind and merciful to all people you meet. It's called putting on the Christ Personality.

Actually, there was a woman, Jane Roberts, who famously channelled a spirit who called himself "Seth". Some believe this was (or part of) the Egyptian God, Set, who was viewed as evil after a certain point, but who was originally seen as a 'good' God. He was the God of storms and change. If you haven't heard or read this info, it's very intertesting.

Anyway, in Seth's vision to Jane Roberts, he said that Jesus was actually a different type of being. The disciples were not independent men, per se, but were actually personalities that reflected outward from Christ. Each one of them was an embodiment of a certain character of humans. John was love, Thomas was the skeptic, etc. Judas was the self-betrayer, who represents the concept of greed and betrayal of self.

So according to this interpretation (assuming you think anyone other than Abraham can channel truthful spirits) Judas may have loved Jesus, but his betrayal of Jesus was encoded into his being. This would explain why Jesus sympathized with Judas and told him to "get done more quickly what you are doing". Christ knew each of their weaknesses because they were in fact external manifestations of his perfect personality. Jesus sympathized with Judas (explaining flyersfan's question) and yet he knew that like himself, Judas had a torturous role to play.

Christ at the center of the apostles, represents the true self inside all of us. The apostles each represent aspects of our own personality, which act to complicate and interfere with the truth of the inner self. The Christ-event was designed to display the true inner self (Christ is in all of us) while also displaying the external traits of personality, which serve to give us character. Jesus and his apostles were one divine being. Well, according to Seth.


[edit on 8-4-2006 by smallpeeps]




posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
Any Church that says Judas was a good guy, and Jesus walked on Ice, and his miracles can be medically explained doesn't have me sat in the pews.

Christianity is going down a wrong turn and a slippy slope with all of this Judas was a good man stuff, and its not one i care to travel with them.



i know you have heard of the false church(christianity) and the antichrist that christ told us about. look around you. america is so infested with the spirit of antichrist its funny. everyone is getting all bent out of shape over christianity and how we claim to be christians but yet we kill 4million babies a year still inside the mother.....build up a massive advanced millitary to obliterate anything and do it in the name of god.....yeah god but which one....the sun god of course...lucifer. you say christianity is going down the wrong road?? thats not christianity....thats the antichrist playing his pipe and all the little mice are following him and loving it. there are two christians these days you know that. come on. wake up....recognize the antichrist. he is all around us. you will know the true christ and his people by the fruits of the spirit.

[edit on 8-4-2006 by Funkydung]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 11:40 AM
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This document has nothing to do with Christianity.


Which "Christianity" are you speaking of? As you might know there are MANY different Denominations & Forms of the Christian Faith. As you know *INTERPRETATION* plays a large role. Do you believe that your personal Denomination, Interpretation and/or "Church" of Christianity is the only "True & Correct" one? I recommend that you Open your Mind.




Satan, is this Master and his aims and goals are clear.


Satan, Satan, Satan - that is all you people seem to want to talk about! Is this your only concern? You call yourself Christians - lets talk about Jesus Christ. Better yet do you not believe that GOD is Greater than Satan? Satan's job is indeed to Tempt & Deceive us - but that GOD allows it to do so for a higher Reason/Purpose?

Hey let me quote some Scripture to you:

KJV ISAIAH 45

ISAIAH 45:3 I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name am the God of Israel.

ISAIAH 45:7 I Form the Light and Create Darkness: I make Peace and Create Evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So what are you afraid of - Open your Mind! Dispel Ignorance! If you still find various beliefs or ideologies to be false after this evaluation then go ahead & reject them - everyone has a choice!

[edit on 8-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 12:31 PM
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C'mon. This is the 21st century. No need for the necromantic worship of a dead man on a cross.

The amalgamation of fairy stories that became the bible are just heresay.
It was all written many years after the alleged events.

The 4 gospels that are already there cant agree, read it.
E.g. there are different accounts relating to the number of people present after his alleged death and subsequent meetings, in tomb or whatever. If the gospels were this alleged gods inspiration perhaps it could have got them all to tell the same story?? Not a hard thing for a so called, all powerful and devine entity to do, I would imagine.

god: "Listen mathew, mark, luke and john write my story and remember no artistic licence.....I dont want people doubting my word...I am god after all.."

gospel authors: "righty oh..bossman....is it okay to wait a few years, so we can confuse the facts, though?"

god: "yea, okay. Constantine and the catholic church will only select what they want anyway....its not easy being god you know....I have to do as the pope says you know...."

gospel authors: "whose the pope??"

god: "oops"

All the abrahamic nonsense has setup a few dodgey belief systems based on giving you free will as long as you do as you are told!!!

If there were a god why would he chose a certain area of the earth and certain people to spread his goodness. It didn't visit the rest of the planet, (except for the conversion by murder, pillage and rape in gods name of some native peoples perhaps). That his good work was bestowed on a select few indicates to me that it, the abrahamic god, is racist...if indeed it existed.

The fact is none of us has had access to the facts first hand. What little information existed..all written after the events...has been filtered out so that it supports the relevant abrahamic belief systems. All of these fables were passed on by word of mouth, over time and we know what Chinese whispers are like????

If you believe in the big guy upstairs, good luck to you. You carry on ingratiating yourselves to keep it, your god onside.

Me I am happier not beng associated with a bigoted, sexist, cruel and jealous entity.

Believers can't prove there is a god or satan, I can't prove there ain't. One of us is wrong IMHO it is not me. But if I am at least I will be nice and warm down there..


One day, perhaps a burning bush will talk to me. If it does I will have belief and be a resident of an old building. Not a belief in god and a resident of a monastery, a belief I was insane and a resident of a lunatic asylum.

If it were not for Judas snogging jesus and the Romans executing him the christians would have no religion.

It is kinda funny that the Roman empire killed this jesus bloke and eventually became the holy roman empire, that then mutated into the catholic church. It did. Why do you think the top geezers wear purple (Emperor) and red (senators)?

All this crud about not worshipping false idols etc. C'mon they worship saints bones, bits of cross, nails and a pope bloke..gods head salesman.

A little honesty christians. Sell up all your wealth, gold and silver, empty your bank accounts to the needy. Convert your cold houses of the lord into accomodation for the needy. Let people use condoms to prevent aids. Get out meet the people..all of you not a few headline grabbers.

A little less smugness, show a little more humanity and altruism I am sure your god wont mind. You may even get a few more believers of your dying cults.



Evolution rules OK



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Il Papa
C'mon. This is the 21st century. No need for the necromantic worship of a dead man on a cross.

The amalgamation of fairy stories that became the bible are just heresay.
It was all written many years after the alleged events.

The 4 gospels that are already there cant agree, read it.
E.g. there are different accounts relating to the number of people present after his alleged death and subsequent meetings, in tomb or whatever. If the gospels were this alleged gods inspiration perhaps it could have got them all to tell the same story?? Not a hard thing for a so called, all powerful and devine entity to do, I would imagine.

god: "Listen mathew, mark, luke and john write my story and remember no artistic licence.....I dont want people doubting my word...I am god after all.."

gospel authors: "righty oh..bossman....is it okay to wait a few years, so we can confuse the facts, though?"

god: "yea, okay. Constantine and the catholic church will only select what they want anyway....its not easy being god you know....I have to do as the pope says you know...."

gospel authors: "whose the pope??"

god: "oops"

All the abrahamic nonsense has setup a few dodgey belief systems based on giving you free will as long as you do as you are told!!!

If there were a god why would he chose a certain area of the earth and certain people to spread his goodness. It didn't visit the rest of the planet, (except for the conversion by murder, pillage and rape in gods name of some native peoples perhaps). That his good work was bestowed on a select few indicates to me that it, the abrahamic god, is racist...if indeed it existed.

The fact is none of us has had access to the facts first hand. What little information existed..all written after the events...has been filtered out so that it supports the relevant abrahamic belief systems. All of these fables were passed on by word of mouth, over time and we know what Chinese whispers are like????

If you believe in the big guy upstairs, good luck to you. You carry on ingratiating yourselves to keep it, your god onside.

Me I am happier not beng associated with a bigoted, sexist, cruel and jealous entity.

Believers can't prove there is a god or satan, I can't prove there ain't. One of us is wrong IMHO it is not me. But if I am at least I will be nice and warm down there..


One day, perhaps a burning bush will talk to me. If it does I will have belief and be a resident of an old building. Not a belief in god and a resident of a monastery, a belief I was insane and a resident of a lunatic asylum.

If it were not for Judas snogging jesus and the Romans executing him the christians would have no religion.

It is kinda funny that the Roman empire killed this jesus bloke and eventually became the holy roman empire, that then mutated into the catholic church. It did. Why do you think the top geezers wear purple (Emperor) and red (senators)?

All this crud about not worshipping false idols etc. C'mon they worship saints bones, bits of cross, nails and a pope bloke..gods head salesman.

A little honesty christians. Sell up all your wealth, gold and silver, empty your bank accounts to the needy. Convert your cold houses of the lord into accomodation for the needy. Let people use condoms to prevent aids. Get out meet the people..all of you not a few headline grabbers.

A little less smugness, show a little more humanity and altruism I am sure your god wont mind. You may even get a few more believers of your dying cults.



Evolution rules OK



the christians your talking about is the false christianity talked about and talked about and talked about. geez. its so simple. i have seen your kind of post i know a thousand times. and its so easy to prove that what you consider fake and cults and no truths christianity is exactly that. its the wrong one. its the pied pipers christianity. the one told about by christ over and over again. its the manmade christianity. the religion. the one started by nimrod, the sun god(lucifer). the christianity your talking about kills babies and gathers wealth thru war and death and do it all in the name of god. does this sound like the message christ told??? but people keep saying that this is the real christianity. its not. its the anitchrist and he is marching full force. hes even got poeple like you fooled.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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A question to all, of YOu fundaMENTALIST, , Evangelical and other wise



FULL GOSPEL,HALLEUJA SHOUTING,HOLY ROLLERS.

For the message of Your Jesus( IE The Jesus preached by Saul the killer of the
the first church.) to have ANY meaning or relevance, HE HAD TO DIE. BY your own teachings it was HIS choice. HE COULD have called a legion of angels, He could have asked


that this cup pass from me.
. But he didnt. HE chose to commit suicide, to die for the cause( at least in your legends.).

So the question begs to be asked and answered . If Not Judas/Jude/ Judah,

Then Who?
Simoen called the thick( cephas)? naw we know he didnt have the balls. And he was the supposed leader.

Mary with the cherry? nope she already had several other children and besides a member of the immediate family might have been seized and imprisioned herself.

James? nope other duties.

What of BARABBAS? More properly ( and in the bibles of my youth) refered to
and cited as Jesus bar Abbas or Jesus of the Father.

Nope. this would infer either Jesus himself or his male offspring. Very unlikely
that the "heir of the line" would be chosen to betray his father. To much history of that already.

Traditionally speaking Jehsua the teacher would have married between the ages of 13 and 17 depending on when he Bar mitzvah'ed. This is reflected in
your bible in the temple story of the young Jesus and the Rabbi's . Todays
versions of this story state jesus as being 12 years old. The older versions(
like those of my youth) state it as " He was in his 12th Year" conveying something completely different. This would (according to Jewish tradition)
place him at an age of 24-30( the 12th year being the 12 years after he joined the adult community ,Bar mitzvah).

during that period ( the same period that is missing from the gospel accts of his life.) he could have and probably did marry father several children as was the custom. Again as was customary he would have begun his " work"around
age 30, which coincidently if he Bar mitzvah,d late at say 18 years after his birth , would also be his 12th year in the community or as is recorded in older
NTs "his 12 Year".





Today, we do not have this tradition.


here I will most respectfully refer you to a question attributed to Jay Silverheels( for those to young to remember Tonto)

What you mean WE , Whiteman?





Jesus' teachings were profound and revolutionary


Profound , yes. Revolutionary , No. He attempted to convey teachings that
many others before and after have tried to teach, ( with much the same result I might add.)





I know I personally would be highly suspect of that information unless it had the testable facts that the Biblical gospel accounts contain.


OH pray tell what testable factsdoes your biblical faerytale contain?


CHRIST Himself said about the person who was to betray Him -
'it would be better for him if he were never born' - in other words,
the guy was going to hell for all eternity.


Nope, Saul (or more exactly a follower of Sauls) attributed this pronouncement to the Rabbi.

I see no reason that the teacher would condem the chosen vessel for the
fulfilment of his selfprofessed "destiny."

A thought,

If the Master , would, in the very infancy of his teachings of love and peace and goodwill condem HIS chosen vehicle/means to his end, Or IF his father
The Almighty would so condem HIS chosen agent.

WHERE PRAY TELL does that leave all of you today?

If Judas was a Necessary expenditure to gain the required ends.
are you also EXPENDIBLE to gain the chosen ones means?



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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First of all, you don't even know who wrote this. How can you believe it? For all you know, it could be written by some Satanist trying to turn people from Christ. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are pinpointed by Craig Blomberg to have been written 2-5 years after Jesus's death. This is written nearly 300 years after Jesus's death. Who are you going to believe?



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by llamaboy902005
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are pinpointed by Craig Blomberg to have been written 2-5 years after Jesus's death.



Hmmm i was always told more like atleast 40 yrs.

But the Pastor could be wrong..



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
Pure BS. The Bible is quite explicit when it comes to Judas's betrayel of Jesus. His death was violent and his life was misery.

It makes me boil when they try to paint Judas as a victim, just like they try to make robbers and rapists the victims because they came from broken homes / neglected up bringings ect ect ect.

Any Church that says Judas was a good guy, and Jesus walked on Ice, and his miracles can be medically explained doesn't have me sat in the pews.

Christianity is going down a wrong turn and a slippy slope with all of this Judas was a good man stuff, and its not one i care to travel with them.


Maybe, maybe not. But when the time comes to destroy all of these people who have been trampled upon by society, i will be there holding a giant nuclear rocket. And when this economy does burst i will be laughing my butt off, i will be able to just leave without much lose. Then when all this happens the victims of all the bad things that will come who will murder, rob, arson, and vandalise, i shall be waiting on the hill egging them on! Then when all else fails i will betray these victims and destory them, do you want to help me greebo. You forget not everyone has your life you know
. It becomes really sad when there trying to start pay-to-play in our own schools
. And i for one sympathise with the columbine kids, i'm happy they did that. They showed humanity a darker side of life, a life were no one will be caught in the bulldookie.


[edit on 8-4-2006 by malakiem]

edit: spelling

[edit on 8-4-2006 by malakiem]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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The incongruities required of Christianity (and all religions) to make it 'work' are excused by the ultimate waffle that one has to have 'faith' in God. In other words, suspend disbelief raised through applied reason. This is the conflict between religion and science. Science doesn't care, it simply asks a question and seeks the answer without prejudice or hope for more than the simple truth. True believers would honor science as merely the search for the translation to the language of God, since God created all with purpose. Understanding the means or 'language' of that creation would bring all closer to God, no?

By science mankind has continued to advance in knowledge of the physical world. Although there is much anecdotal evidence from individuals who report afterlife experiences during clinical death who are later revived (www.near-death.com...), science has not yet revealed whether our energy essence constituting consciousness, or 'soul', survives the death of the body.

Religion provides a promise of soulfull immortality along with a guide for living in the physical world which can get you there. Muslim martyrs are promised the 20 virgins to plunder in the afterlife. Christians are promised a heavenly party with God but no more sex. What kind of party is that? These promises are irresistible to many followers. Without the 'promise', religion would not exist for it would have no purpose. Without the promise, many followers would find life meaningless. Hence their emotional attacks against any and all who question their chosen religion.

Personally, I choose to believe in an afterlife although I have abandoned my Catholic upbringing for what I believe are fairly obvious reasons - reason itself! I believe that, as in the physical world, our experience at the next stage is self-created. Those who believe in hell and believe they deserve to be there will be, for a time.

As far as the Christ story and Judas is concerned, I would think that Christians would bless and be grateful for Judas Iscariot and all who allegedly took part in Christ's murder since, as was already expressed in this thread, without his murder they would have no faith at all as Christ would not have "died for your sins." Rejoice in Judas Christians!

[edit on 8-4-2006 by seattlelaw]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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hey this might be somewhat on topic, a gnostic group which talks about the teaching is judas

www.gnosticweb.com...



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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It seems to me that the further one delves back in time searching for the ultimate 'truth' the more one discovers mankind to have been playing its own time relative trumped-up game of ping-pong with it. So, how could any of us really expect the newly discovered 'Gospel of Judas' to be any different? Look carefully for truth in its forest of lies.

It is also quite apparent to me that nothing has caused more human suffering than religion in general and I make no apology for simply stating a fact to be what it is. Perhaps a better religious philosophy will come into practice when the more fortunate among us learn to share proportionately with the less fortunate as every one of us will soon enough be separated from the material world when its ceases to be at the end of our days.

You want truth? Here's some that's hard to discredit: "You have never been anywhere else but here, you can never be anything else but awareness. This is the beauty, the blessing, the final end to the dream of being a seeker."



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by llamaboy902005For all you know, it could be written by some Satanist trying to turn people from Christ. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are pinpointed by Craig Blomberg to have been written 2-5 years after Jesus's death. This is written nearly 300 years after Jesus's death. Who are you going to believe?


Post a link so we can see.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Um, this is not about the material itself but about how it got to be exposed..

I think it is tragic that some moron bought this document in 1970? and put it in a bank box somewhere to rot out of greed and then later sees it and then sells it in order to get some money out of it.

That person whoever they are has done a disservice to humanity and I hope you are punished for it. Your greed led to a lot of this document being unreadable and you only care about money.

There I said my bit.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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The view on who and what The Christ is, has been lost since Constantine... who wasn;t even christian to start with, he merely put the effectiveness in war of the One God up against the other gods and (in my opinion) got his strength in war from the sun-god, a.k.a. satan.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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No need for the necromantic worship of a dead man on a cross.


Who says that this is what all Christians are doing?



If it were not for Judas snogging Jesus and the Romans executing him the christians would have no religion.


Who says? How do you know? Things could have turned out differently! What if Jesus did survive the Crucifixion - but that is not how the popular story goes! But of course he would have had to die eventually since he was a Human Being!

LlamaBoy - The Gospels were written WELL after Jesus' Death - like 60-80 Years minimum!



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by jazz_psyker
hey this might be somewhat on topic, a gnostic group which talks about the teaching is judas

www.gnosticweb.com...


The coptic christians in and around egypt believed that christ wasn't human, and was never human either. But came here in spirit.



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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I saw part of the interview with two people involved with the remnant they say paints Judas in a more positive light.
A couple of things. None of the four gospels that finally made it into the continuation of the Jewish bible called the New Testament were written at the time Jesus was supposed to have existed. The four of about 25 gospel candidates are not in the correct order as a mistake in dating was made. Mark was the first written some decades after the supposed facts. The gospels contradict each other but the reason the first three Mark, Matthew and Luke contradict each other less than John contradicts the first three is simple. The best reason for this is that Matthew and Luke appear to be re-writes of Mark but by different committies and several decades later.
I have no idea whether this new piece is one of the 20 some odd "gospels" which didn't receive approval of the committies which put the New testament together.
I'd be interested in the actual dating information and if anyone knows how many people made up the committee that is called Judas.
Interesting stuff. The martyr thing is not new to Mesopotamian religion as just about every collection of a few people (tribe) has their own messianic expectation and it was so easy to get killed back then that its no surprise that people found a way to paint such untimely demise with a more favorable brush.
I think it would be both interesting to read some of the "gospels" which didn't make the final copy and very telling. I can also understand why organized religion would not want these other "gospels" to be available, tryth in advertising never being very important to religion. My guess is that they would be intensely contradictive to the acpted four.
sayswho (skep by any other name)



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 08:33 PM
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quote: Originally posted by jazz_psyker
hey this might be somewhat on topic, a gnostic group which talks about the teaching is judas

www.gnosticweb.com...


I've taken every course on that site (except the teacher's course), when they were still giving it out in free PDF form, back when it used to be MysticWeb, not GnosticWeb (Around 2004 if I recall). So if you have any questions I can probably answer them.

I actually came to ATS because that site was starting to go downhill
.


Who says? How do you know? Things could have turned out differently! What if Jesus did survive the Crucifixion - but that is not how the popular story goes! But of course he would have had to die eventually since he was a Human Being!


Quote the Neil Young: "It's better to burn out, than to fade away".

If Jesus didn't die a sudden and tragic death, there wouldn't be as much greatness behind him. If he just grew old and died a natural death, he wouldn't be so highly regarded. All great religious/spiritual teachers died tragically or mysteriously disappeared. It just adds one more "WTF" to their spiritual career.

[edit on 8-4-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Apr, 8 2006 @ 09:54 PM
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posted by malakiem

posted by jazz_psyker: “Hey this might be somewhat on topic, a Gnostic group which talks about the teaching is Judas


The Coptic Christians in and around Egypt believed that Jesus wasn't human, and was never human. But came here in spirit. [Edited by Don W]


There is no physical proof or evidence that Jesus ever lived. There is nothing written about Jesus in his lifetime. The stories told about Jesus wouldn’t wash today. Walking on water. Putting demons in pigs then crashing the pigs into the sea. People would not accept that today.

If Jesus really had performed a miracle, then or today, people would have believed him. But only a few followed him and they left no written records. Paul's letters report on Jesus but Paul never saw Jesus. James and Peter called Paul to Jerusalem to lay down the law, but that first church council ended just agreeing to disagree. Maybe the Coptics had it right all the time?

[edit on 4/8/2006 by donwhite]



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