What is making us NOT fight back?, page 6
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reply posted on 6-4-2006 @ 06:27 PM by NJE777
here is a perfect example I am talking about...

Tell McDonald's to stop trashin' the Amazon

how easy is this?? Click on the link...and boycott Maccas...eat something else.

Visit their customer comments page to write them a letter.
It's a long and tedious form, but they won't accept our emails. You only have to fill in the fields with an * to send them a message. And if you have the inside track on an email for McDonald's headquarters that works, drop us a line at webteam@uk.greenpeace.org.


There are plenty of activist groups out there:

World Can't Wait - Drive out the Bush Regime
The protests on Jan. 31st & Feb. 4 show that a movement to drive out the Bush regime is coming together, involving a broad array of people - from ministers to movie stars to the parents of soldiers who died in Iraq; from writers to congresspeople to scientists; from lawyers to activists to students to those who’ve quit this regime in disgust; to thousands and thousands of "ordinary people."


and

NEW YORK — They didn't change the Republican platform, prevent the nomination of President Bush or even make a lot of noise about voting for Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry. But the half-million or so people who protested during the GOP convention this week didn't come for that.

Protesters said they had shown that not all Americans agree with Bush and that dissenters can speak out. "People are recognizing they need to vote with their feet. They need to be out in the streets," said Tanya Mayo, 36, national organizer of Not In Our Name, an anti-war group...Link



There is United for Peace and Justice; Code Pink; Not In Our Name and many many others.


reply posted on 6-4-2006 @ 07:39 PM by smallpeeps
Today, I was thinking about this issue. I was also thinking about Kitty Genovese, who was raped and murdered while lots of people watched from windows overhead. Nobody called the police at all.

What is making you not fight back? I think in the final analysis, the answer is peer pressure. The one-in-twenty number is more accurately known as the 80% rule, I.E. 20% of the people in the world actually move and direct the other 80% . This breaks down to four people in twenty, but the point is moot.

Anyway, if you have twenty people in a room, and one person stands up and speaks eloquently, that person is probably going to be killed, in a survival situation. That one person needs to have the support of three more people, to sway a crowd in a stressful situation.

In fact, if it were me who was in a group of twenty, I'd pretend to be dumb. Let the smart people talk first, because truth will float like a feather whereas falseness will sink like lead. I'd try to become like a hick, almost, so as to be seen in the sixtieth percentile of the group. This is how Socrates seemed to conduct his scenarios. He would have the sage play stupid first, and then encourage the "smart" to reel out as much rope as they needed to hang themselves. The method works, in real life.

Really, any smart person in a "Big Brother" situation like you describe, and who is in de facto charge of a bunch of people, is going to place his second in command, as "captain". Picture Kirk allowing Spock to be the Captain, and you're getting what I mean. This can be done to even greater levels, if one is being watched closely, as in a concentration camp or what have you. The people in charge learn to hide, and they are in fact helped to hide, again, by the other three who support the one.

Anyway though, back to my point: Peer pressure. It really does control so much of what humans do. People get conditioned to it through high school, learning their "place" and not to step out of line or suffer humiliation. Of all things, people fear humiliation. Even before death. The point is, when people start shooting rifles (please God, if you're listening, give us thirty more years to fix this mess), it will not be difficult for people to take action. The moment for courage or cunning, will have passed.

People are afraid of being that one person in twenty because if they are wrong, and they don't have what it takes, to lead, then they may in fact become a target for shame and humiliation from the rest of the group. Fear drives a lot of humans. More than 80%, I'd say.

What I am saying here about humans and leadership, etc, is meant to describe people in a stressful situation or under duress. The one-in-twenty idea doesn't apply at an orgy, for example, because who needs to be a hero when everyone's glutting themselves and feeling great?

If you look down the street, and you see SUVs parked in every driveway of your suburban neighborhood, and one morning one of these neighbors starts handing out flyers to give up SUV useage and buy more efficient cars, this neighbor will probably find limited acceptance.


[edit on 6-4-2006 by smallpeeps]



reply posted on 6-4-2006 @ 08:51 PM by smallpeeps
Faustus: Love your work. Post more. A great book on this subject is Robert Cialdini's book, "Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion". Especially the chapter "Scarcity". It describes how humans are really able to be conditioned toward action or inaction, based on the most subtle and practically invisible methods. Must read, IMO.

Yeah, and this example of Kitty Genovese also shows us the cost of even just one homicidal maniac like Genovese's killer:


en.wikipedia.org...

Mosely also testified at his own trial where he further described the attack, leaving no question that he was the killer.

In 1968, during a trip to a Buffalo, New York hospital for surgery, he overpowered a guard and took five hostages, sexually assaulting one of them, before he was recaptured. He was alive and remained in prison after being denied parole a 12th time on February 3rd, 2006. His latest parole hearing included his defense that "For a victim outside, it's a one-time or one-hour or one-minute affair, but for the person who's caught, it's forever." [1]

Wow. Model citizen, eh? So these people who watched Mosely's victimization of Genovese, were probably just average Americans, looking at each other sideways, waiting for even just one person to take action, so that they could be #2 or #3 and therefore lessen their possible humiliation. No doubt also measuring the depths of their souls.

People think they are exercising their free will, but they are limited in that excercise. They will lie to themselves about this truth. Truly, the gentle bump of his fellow man's humiliation, is enough to make even the most vigorous patriot shut up, while still feeling that he has "freedom". Shame is not fun, as any psychotherapist can tell you.


reply posted on 6-4-2006 @ 10:03 PM by Radekus
yeah, good planing guys, talk about stuff for a very long time, and eventually do NOTHING. Very freaking smart, now how bout you all meet up with about a thousand people, get weapons, storm the white house while bush is in there, and impeach him yourselves? Now if that doesn't seem like a plan, I don't know what does. Once the people take matters into their own hands, nothing can stop them, especially not a bouch of neocons who want to make money of people's cold dead corpses.
So, are you still going to sit on your asses infront of your computers whinning about how crappy it is out there, and planning legal ways to get your way, that will get illegaly decapitated by neocon men anyways, or will you stand up for your rights and wave your flag up in the air proudly while draging the criminals out of the white house? Be brainwahsed, do it diplomatically, like it ever worked. Pffft, the only thing that you can do with a corrupt government is overthrow it, violently. Nothing is done diplomatically, you have already lost if you think that it is. This is how it starts, first the dictator gets into power democratically, then stays there after putting illegal laws into effect and/or cheating the polls. Eventually he'll start making wars here and there, anything to keep him in power. You honestly think that Bush will step down? And even if he does, another illuminati puppet will take his place. Please, please, your government is turning into a corporate police state. Europe is going down the same path, the European union is yet another way of controling the public.
Well, cudoes to you all, I know that none of you will do anything about it, you will only whine, I guess you all deserve your fate, as for me, I'm going to fight with forks and knives if I have to. Bah, might as well make molotov coctails and home made bombs, knives and forks just don't cut it.


reply posted on 6-4-2006 @ 10:54 PM by ludaChris
Originally posted by NJE777
There are plenty of activist groups out there:

World Can't Wait - Drive out the Bush Regime


You know whats funny about that site? They dont seem to let people know that the immigrant riot is mainly comprised of ILLEGALS who have no right to be here in the first place. I mean hey, lets let anyone here who wants to be without anyone knowing and then pay for them to live huh? Gotta love socialism.

[edit on 4/6/2006 by ludaChris]

[edit on 4/6/2006 by ludaChris]


reply posted on 7-4-2006 @ 09:14 AM by godservant
Originally posted by Jadette
I mean, that, it seems that we're either all young, or we've forgotten the past.


It is not their fault.

I am nearing 40. I saw it through my parents. Problem is, the younger ones never knew what is was like.

Now, most have grown up in a fairly easy life used to having their needs met and only complaining about a stain on their Reeboks. Used to having someone else do everything, not used to doing anything themselves.

It's all they know.

Most today don't know what is like to have to fight for something because they never had to - it is not familiar.

It is just like we wouldn't go to the jungles of Africa to live in a tribe lnger than a visit. Likewise, a tribal member wouldn't want to become apart of our lifestyle. Its not familiar.

What is familiar, is TV, hanging out, shopping, fashion, borrowing, monthly payments and basically following the crowd.

No one I know personally has ever been to a protest and have no interest in doing so. One, it is not familiar, two, they don't have time and three, they're afraid of being jailed.

Well, I for one am tired of complaining to others who, for the most part, agree with me. I am beginning to act.

At the end of this month, I will most likely be in NY city joining a protest. I am making it a point to write to our public servants at least one a month.

If more did this, voices would be louder.

Problem is, most of you think that it is useless. What a concept - If it is useless, don't do anything and then it becomes quieter. The corrupt leaders like that silence.

Get up - unless of course, you think it is all dandy.
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