Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Contensious

I truly get annoyed with people who come on ATS procaliming they 'have the answer'. If you have it then share it, if you won't share it then please feel free to sit in a corner and be quiet. You can sit and laugh as we poor, dumb, simpletons walk aimlessly around trying to sort it out.

Take the childrens lives out of the MEN's hands and give to the WOMEN.

Negative media, its always been assumed that its what we want to hear. But is it? Hows this for a thought, we're supposed to be a nation who stands together, yet with all this negative media, we trust no one not even our neighbor. How can we join together without trust.

Originally posted by Contentious
Take the childrens lives out of the MEN's hands and give to the WOMEN.

Hrm, not quite what I think people had in mind for an answer because quite frankly a child needs both its mother and father to develop properly, otherwise they become unbalanced seeing only one side of things, though I'm sure some people think that kind of unbalance is a good thing. Women are no better nor worse than men, just different parts of what makes us human. There is a time and a place for the motherly nuturing of a Woman (and lets be honest they do a better job at such things than us guys do) and there is also a time and a place for the war-making abilities of Men, but people seem to forget such simple concepts such as balance.

As for why nobody is fighting back I think its a combination of reasons such as not caring enough, no drive or reason to stand up, and also the fact that those with a little common sense know that fighting the goverment is a loosing battle. Were not trained and not equiped to fight a modern army such as our own, so fighting back cannot happen against them, its a loosing battle. Quite possibly at this jucture we cant and shouldnt fight back, perhaps down the road a more suitable and desireable opportunity to take action will present itself where the odds aren't as stacked against us.

"What is making us NOT fight back?"

Easy. Complaining on the internet is easier.

other reasons:
1. There's 300 million people in this country alone, add GB, Australia, and other countries you're up over 400 million. 400,000,000+ different voices, ideas, philosophies, political views, etc. I guess people just feel there's never going to be a new consensus and what we've had up to this point has for the most part worked.

2. Life is to comfortable. Very few people are being directly affected by war so that it changes their way of living. Very few people are experiencing third world level poverty, or any devestating famines or anything like that.
You can yell and scream about something like the Patriot Act being evil all you want. But....if it's not directly affecting one's daily life then...out of sight out of mind.

Bush would have been impeached years ago if this were in the early 20th century. Folks would have been fuming angry.

lol, not really. You think this stuff is new?
Name one thing in the past 10 years that's new. I can't think of anything....
The internet is able to spread info to just about anyone and on a mass scale that's why it may seem like this stuff is so much or new, but...it's not.

3. People tend to have a wait-and-see attitude. Maybe it'll get better.
Maybe someone else will make it better.

Makes me wonder, was their this past era of a utopia where all freedom reigned?

Was it the 70's 60's, 50's 40's 30's 20's ?

Or mabey it was before america was founded, in europe, right? Durring the dark ages, mabey cavemen time.

If you look at past history more of it sucked then naught, we have a lot more freedoms now then we ever did. Not saying we can't be more free, but still, asides from some lucid thought of atlantis or the garden of eden their was no perfect/better past.

Originally posted by jazz_psyker
Not saying we can't be more free, but still, asides from some lucid thought of atlantis or the garden of eden their was no perfect/better past.

We have and are becomming less free. This trend needs to be reversed, we are less free than a lot of other countries. We need freedom like we had in the 1800's without all the regulations against the individual, you were trusted to buy anything you wanted and were in a lawful status until you commit a law of tresspass. We need to regulate corporations and governments not individuals.

The catch though is that WE THE PEOPLE have to be the ones that govern as a whole, not a select few deciding our fates for us. It's sad that people have allowed it to happen, but the ultimate demon here is commercialism. It's made us fat and lazy to the point that we don't care so long as we can continue to get fatter and lazier.

If we could all have a say in what gets made into law, then we'd have an ACTUAL say in how we turn out. I just wish more people felt the same way. I don't know why everyone seems so dumbed down, almost lethargic. Makes me wonder about a lot of things. Oh well. When people get tired enough of this crap, they'll fix it. That's what people do best; get agitated and break things.

TheBorg

That's exactly what I would like to avoid.

If we have to fight about the truth, than have to come up with an 'amicable' agreement on how to solve the problems and make changes, we would be better off staying in this line to be turned into GLUE.

Look what MAN has done to our lives and the childrens future since he discovered ELECTRICITY?

The 'goal' should be to take it OUT of his hands.

imo,the powers that be are to strong to be changed by anything short of
revolution,

im not sure we the people are in enough pain to risk losing are comfort of
are day to day way of life , yet

although i dont think that day is as far off as many would like to beleive...

REVOLUTION ????

Originally posted by Contentious
[
Take the childrens lives out of the MEN's hands and give to the WOMEN.

incomplete, and you know it

REVOLUTION ? ? ?

Absolutely.


***

Revolution \Rev`o*lu"tion\, n. [F. r['e]volution, L. revolutio. See Revolve.]

1. The act of revolving, or turning round on an axis or a center; the motion of a body round a fixed point or line; rotation; as, the revolution of a wheel, of a top, of the earth on its axis, etc.

2. Return to a point before occupied, or to a point relatively the same; a rolling back; return; as, revolution in an ellipse or spiral.

That fear Comes thundering back, with dreadful revolution, On my defenseless head. --Milton.

3. The space measured by the regular return of a revolving body; the period made by the regular recurrence of a measure of time, or by a succession of similar events. ``The short revolution of a day.'' --Dryden.***

Nothing that the word 'revolution' has ever applied to so far truly understood the definition of the word itself.
It doesn't mean 'fight' , it doesn't involve a 'struggle', it' doesn't consider 'failure'. And that's all everybody who has considered their perception of a 'revolution' involving because that is what every other 'revolutionary' has encountered.

No ONE has been able to address the SOURCE of the problem.
How bad would 'men' in general fight against the women and children to maintain possession of the power drugs and the mountain of WMD they have established so far... to guarantee WHO"S future ?

Everything we understand in our life was made available to us by MAN.
And look how far war are into WWW 3 already. If that's what WE wanted and it was obviously the BEST chance to provide a future for Children, would there be a potential fight struggle or failure considered in the execution of this "plea-bargan"??

I may not be a Mod but enough is enough....MEN have done some bad things in thier time...but just so you know...there have been NUMEROUS Matriarcle societiies that crashed and burned just as bad as Male dominated societies. I am all for improving the world for Women...but get off your HIgh Feminist Horse...This thread is not about Uber Femnaziism...this is about what is making us not fight back and seeing as the propoderance of ATS is male then I would ahve to say that wats making us not fight is not men.

Second If as you think women would do so much better than how come there are the Hillary Clintons of the world and the Barbra Bush's, "Ohh there poor already so this is working out quite nice for them". Women are not better or more peacful or more logical than men. We are both Horrible Awful mean creatures and I have been forced to spend time pandering to you to get you to STOP diluting the thread with your Femnazi agenda. You want to help fix the problem then help dont just go off about how anyone who has a penis is evil...its counter intuitive and counter productive.

Im just going to start a new post for my actual point....

El senor pom pom rides again

Grrr.....distractions.....on to Revolution.....

Revolution is a great idea but if we are to revolt we have to make sure that there are safegaurds in place to insure that A) A french style revolution doesnt happen
B) we dont replace the aristocrats of yesterday with the aristocrats of tomorrow.
C) we need to break out of the vicous cycle of violence that has permeated Human society for eons.

I think that what the Illegal Immigrants were plannning is exactly what we need to do. Start staging Walkouts from Government Jobs, Refuse to buy anything for a day. Refuse to send your kids to school( I come from a school teacher family so i say this lightly). There are other forms of revolution that dont require violence. While I do recognize that more than likely violence will be needed but if we instead make that our back up and non violence as our primary method of revoltution I think we stand a much higher likelihood of not having to destroy our country so we can rebuild it.

Im not sure who siad this, but they said that we are lazy because of Commercializm. You are soo right....Dont vote you need to work so you can buy*_______*. It doesnt matter what it is its always you need this and you deserve that. Cant afford it thats okay just charge it...You deserve it. You earned it buy being born... Free Market Capitalizm coupled with Apathy are what I feel are keeping us from fighting. In a society where buisness can do what it pleases because the Government owes it money.

But thats just my .02$.

El Senor pom pom rides again

PS sorry about ranting at Contientous but I really enjoy reading this thread every other day and to see someone just diluting it like that was frustrating this is an important issue and we dont need people like that getting in the way of intellegent debate.

Originally posted by Jadette
For all you people claiming that violence is the only way, I'd like to remind you that one of the most successful revolutions and civil rights movements was accomplished with the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi and nonviolent protest.

One should try to keep in mind that the success of the "give-us-rights" movement happened to come at a time when Britain was spread rather thinly around the world with significant bombing and general violence also taking place in India at the time. He denied involvement ( obviously but many did not believe him) but it helped his cause as it made the alternatives plain to see for everyone who cared to look. Being 'nice' and discussing your rights non-violently is great while you still have some but the longer one waits the more violence ( which is nothing more than showing your willing to put more than your own life at stake) or general agreement is going to be required to get anything done.

Stellar

"There are other forms of revolution that dont require violence. While I do recognize that more than likely violence will be needed but if we instead make that our back up and non violence as our primary method of revoltution I think we stand a much higher likelihood of not having to destroy our country so we can rebuild it. "

Do like everybody else and stay focused on what you want to change to make life better for you, and see if you can get that. See if you can make ONE thing change that is in control of destroying you.
This administration could not acknowledge questions concerning the poison in the milk, because they are the source of it. See if you can work that out with them, it's as simple as a small group of people demanding some answers. See if they will meet you halfway! and just poison the MILK instead of influencing EVERYTHING we buy on and off the streets.
If you don't understand what has already happened to your 'freedom' or how little chance you have of escaping it's influence, please don't keep thinking about how to save this "system" because your scared you might have to feed yourself one day. Or because it's important to you to preserve the "American way" because let me tell you something, you and every other MAN in this nation is going run like hell to save THEMSELVES if somebody cuts your family off from their addictions. And you won't know where to go or who to turn to because nobody has put any thought or preparations to the possibility of what would happen if they woke up from their American dream tomorrow morning. Or if the oil food and drugs they live off of would no longer be available, or if somebody was smart enough to cut off the FLOW because they couldn't excape the smoke that is suffocating US already. Maybe then our leaders will want to make it stop, maybe when the administrations on their knees gasping from the Clean Air ACT they will consider the possibility of stopping the system... how far will they go with this and what will it take for them to see who they are killing?

I know what to do, you and everybody else could blame it all on ME... but nobody's accepting 'applications' for the position of saving people... it's all about preserving what the systems needs to keep growing.
I know the American people do not have the ability to bite the hand that feeds them poison. I know how hard it is to imagine life without conditioned air, drug stores, popcorn & a movie, home depot, and cheap "aliens" to pick the food for you. 30 children died of starvation since I started typing this. That's MY fault.

After this fight there will be no others, either because the WOMEN have the POWER to influence and protect their childrens future , or because the system won and there will be no one left with the desire or ability to attack their sole provider of food and information.

If it keeps going like this, how are you going to feel when your family is wearing those MUSLIMS shoes in ohh,,, maybe 50 or 60 years from now?
Are you one of those "red blooded" Americans that agree with the JUSTICE our ARMED FORCES are serving on those UNarmed people?
They did nothing to hurt the American people. Remember that. Nothing at all. I don't care what you saw on television or read in the news.

So see if you can peacefully get all that straightened out or even protect your families food without burning down a big white crack house and everything it stands for, to the ground.
You think I'm a feminist?
What's wrong with you?
Do you want to keep on getting PORKED by the MAN until his system is
ready to "field dress" your family too?

Can't you see how fast IT destroys whatever IT wants?

Contentious

You have an appropriate name.

You keep talking about America as the ones suffering from freedom abuse and all that stuff but the UK has even more. We in the UK are the most surveilled nation, we have more cameras over the area we have than anyone. We have implemented systems like License plate recognition and various other rubbish.

You seem to be anti america, and saying that everyone will forget about everyone else and will only look out for themselves is absolute rubbish. Humans are known for looking out for others even if it is small groups of themselves. It seems to me that you are applying your own logic to others, you are thinking that you would care for yourself and so applying that to others.

I get sick and tired of everyone blaming America, yes America does some terrible things but it is not on it's own. We in the UK do bad things as well. We take away freedom from our citizens.

Most of all humans will always look out for each other. Although i think it was Freud who commented on humans being self centered (which they are), most humans recognise they need others. Small communitys always form because they know they can help each other.

Please take your rhetoric elsewhere.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Contentious:

I'm getting the impression that you think that some of us don't have any good ideas. Well you need to reread this thread, because I posted a potential solution to this very problem some pages ago.

To vote should be the utmost of rights that we Americans have, but it's not. Care to guess why? No answer? Well it's because, you guessed it, we have no say in what/who gets done/elected. Feel free to interchange those however you want. I find the notion that there's not a peaceable solution to be quite narrow-minded and honestly self-defeatist. If we accept the notion that there's no better solution to the problem than violence, then we've already lost because to do that as the primary plan is nothing better than what 'they' are doing to us. Where does the 'gestapo' mentality end, huh? We gotta stop being so violent, or we have no hopes of ever getting anywhere as a species.

I feel sorry for you, since you're so dead set on the violence as the only option left to us. That's the way that 'they' want you to think, because 'they' know you'll give up, and then 'they'll' have won. I'm not gonna lay down and die for ANYONE!! I don't give up for no reason. True, it may come to violent blows one day, but for now, we need to exhaust ALL other options before we resort to the throwing of fists. It should be the last option available to us.

But change takes time. You need to understand that nothing happens overnight. We as a society need to stand up and say enough is enough. It can't be done any other way. I guess what needs to happen now is that a rallying cry should be sent nationwide to involve anyone that feels that a peaceful solution may be at hand. We need to push this solution as far as we can, and exhaust every outlet we can get our hands on. Articles should be written, news agencies should be notified, and people should be informed. The latter of these is the most important, because without the people's involvement, any hope of success is gone. To implement change, we need support. And our greatest support comes from a united front; from people just like you and me.

And now, I'll end this with a fitting quote:

"United we stand, united we fall."

TheBorg

Originally posted by ludaChris
I wonder what the athletes who play these sports would say to that statement. You think baseball and basketball were invented to control the populace?

Not control as much as provide distraction if trough schooling and education people could be indoctrinated to consider it worth doing. The basis of education is repetition and where do we learn how to play the games?

Ask Abner Doubleday and James Nasmith, they can tell you. Thats complete balogne, sport is for amusement, to put our bodies to use, and most of all for competition.

Why would anyone want to subject their bodies to such punishment in the first place? What sort of illogical drive would get us expending so much energy and drive at risk to ourselves for the pleasure of other or ourselves? Why should there be any sense of achievement connected with sport when it is so totally artificial to start with? Is it not rather obvious that sport IS a distraction( especially the violent kinds; imagine you could focus that anger at government) if not a huge conspiracy to waste our time and focus?

I dont think that modern sports are a conspiracy of any kind.

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walk.

-- Thomas Jefferson, Foley, ed., Encyclopedia of Thomas Jefferson, p. 318.

Well i don't believe he is saying it is such but he is pointing out what sort of sport and activities humans should be getting involved in.

Stellar

heck, if Singaporeans could wake up, we would have a fairer coalition government come this year's elections, instead of a creeping one-party system..

Originally posted by NJE777
It is simple, money makes the world go around, what happens if people stop buying a product or supporting an org? They listen.

It's the control, stupid ( hope you get it ).

Sit in at council meetings, I am not sure of the equivalent for US. Join community groups etc... Write letters to newspapers/start a petition. Take that petition to the next level and so on.

All well and good but how long can people afford to sit around while they grow old? If we did not die so fast we could all take the time to talk forever but that isn't the case as starving people ( worse case scenario obviously) everywhere could probably attest to.

Please! Leave the guns/violence out of this.

The pen is mightier than the sword!

The pen is only migthier than the sword when the pen is either protected by swords, hiding very well or thick, ten feet long with a sharp point.

However civilized and smart you(whoever) if your not in the end at least in theory willing to back words with whatever action required, however violent it must be, your not going to change much in this world imo. All you will show by ruling out violent action, even as very last recourse, is that your either lack the conviction to carry out your aims(making you at best self interested- in your own survival- and at worse a coward) or do not really believe in your stated aims.

edit to mention in my sig is a link to greenpeace, it is so easy, click on the link and there are email campaigns that you can send with the click of the button. Read some of the achievements this NGO has achieved.

Greenpeace is very much run by the same people you do not like so why back them? Why should we 'protect the planet' by limiting energy production and thus consigning so much of the world's population to poverty or worse? Saving the whales or rain forests serves humanity in no way but it does help draw attention from the real issues such as preserving human life WHATEVER the cost to the planet. Once we all agree that human life > all then we could start thinking about how we can protect the planet while ensuring that people do not suffer for it. Most of these NGO's are bought and paid for by big business anyways as all they ever do is restrict our actions in some new way which is not the path to true freedom since freedom is having every option imaginable but choosing not to exercise some of them.

Stellar