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An Open Letter to Europe

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posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 10:32 AM
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ultra_phoenix:

"If someone ( a white, a black, an hispanic... ) just want to preserve is religion, his way of life, want to live ONLY with same peoples like him ( blacks, white, brown..... ), he's a a fascist ?
"

maybe not a fascist, but a racist. by the very definition of the word.

- qo.




posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 10:48 AM
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I don't think so Quiet One,

Just because someone doesn't what to live in a multi-cultural society doesn't make him a rascist.By that definition a nun is a sexist.



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 10:50 AM
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I don't think so. I know black peoples who want to live only with others blaks peoples, same with North-Africans & Arabs,and of course, some whites who want to live only with whites.

And these whites/blacks/arabs are NOT racists. They are all quiet and nice with each others. But if they have to chose, they'll chose to live with peoples like them.

Living with peoples like you doesn't mean that you want to terminate those who are not like you.

Look the feline race. You have cats, tigers, panthers, cougars,lions....etc....

Did you ever see a tiger who was living with a panther or a lion ? So, for you, they are all racist, right ?

Living with peoples like you is a normal thing ! And if you want to live with someone who's not like you, it's your right. But you don't have to oblige everybody to live like you think they have to live !

Freedom man, freedom......freedom of choices....


[Edited on 29-10-2002 by ultra_phoenix]



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 10:52 AM
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Or it could be people are more comfertable with people that are the same.I mean how comfertable would you or any white guy be walking through downtown Oakland CA in the middle of the night.



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 12:36 PM
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B-T, I refer to the "subcultures" as such because that is how they are referred to in my sociology textbooks. I think its a good descriptive, and an acurate one at that. I'm not trying to place any weight of credibility to them, and I certainly understand how you would have negative feelings toward them.
But let's understand how these "subcultures" are not only recognized as legitimate, but are even idolized by the pop-media such as M-TV, BET and other media outlets aimed at the youth.

What used to be taken for granted, peer pressure, for years, kept the society as a culture. Immigrants came to theis country and wanted to assimilate with the pre-existing culture and be Americans. Our society offered things that the places from which they left did not. Our culture was as cohesive as any culture could be, other than very isolated cultures anthropologists may find in the explorations of the deep jungles of South America and Africa. Peer Pressure was a main bond that kept the culture and society intact and strong. The influx of immigrants of the early part of the last century certainly did help make America strong, and while they came to America to assimilate, they brought with them values and mores that were certainly not unlike what was already here, and the cultural differences they could not shake off while assimilating certainly added spice to the melting pot that we were, and did not conflict with the set of core beliefs, values, mores or taboos that were already set in place.

This strong American culture which created a strong society was hindrance, however, to those who want to shape not only this nation, but the world. In the late 40's early 50's, the Council on Foreign relations set about the task of undermining the culture so that we would not be as strong a society and would more easily assimilate into a world that was not like or nation, that did not believe in the God that created this nation, and would not understand what this nations founding documents were all about and therefore not notice when the government strayed away from its intended direction and purpose. The fact that "melting pot" is now "multicultural", and God's laws, which is the basis for the laws (not statutes, but laws) of our nation is replaced by the catch-phrase "moral relativity", indicates that they have done a decent job. Through the past several decades we have seen our society degenerate in a manner my grandfather could not have imagined. This fact lends credence to what some say, that today's style of patriotism is dangerous; people root for the red-white-blue because it is their team and they take pride in it, but what does it stand for? By diluting our society and obscuring our original documents, the Joe-6packers that go to work, come home, turn on the Boob Tube and are told what to think by Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw and yell "Go Team!" have no more idea where the "team" should be going any more than an electrician trying to build a helicopter without blueprints. When teachers identify proper grammar "traditional grammar" and improper grammar as not improper but "non-traditional", where are the societal standards? When there is no peer pressure to force immigrants to learn the language of this nation, as a matter of fact, they are catered to by having their language on cable TV and signs at the post office in their old-world language, who benefits in this "multiculturalism?

The notion of multiculturalism serves no purpose other than to weaken the societal fabric. Who benefits in a weak society? Oh, someone does, no doubt, or they would not have created mechanisms by which this would be accomplished.

And, BT, I have no problems with Yankees unless they come down here when they are 80 years old and snarl up the traffic while they wait around to die. It's bad enough having to share the road with locals who aren't smart enough to figure out to get out of the left lane unless they are passing or going really really fast.



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 01:50 PM
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Mush nuts, can you explain that one to me? How can you folks eat that stuff? I mean, I love grits, but that stuff is nasty! I made the mistake of getting a bunch before going out fishing on the grass flats, thinking it would substitute for lunch while I caught a mess of sea trout, but noooo! One taste & I was feeding them to the crabs!



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 02:00 PM
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What the heck is a mush nut?
Have you been listening to Jeff Foxworthy again? You know we banned that guy from the south, don't you?



posted on Oct, 29 2002 @ 06:13 PM
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Boiled Peanuts, yuk!



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 03:42 AM
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ultra_phoenix:

"I don't think so. I know black peoples who want to live only with others blaks peoples, same with North-Africans & Arabs,and of course, some whites who want to live only with whites.

And these whites/blacks/arabs are NOT racists. They are all quiet and nice with each others. But if they have to chose, they'll chose to live with peoples like them.

Living with peoples like you doesn't mean that you want to terminate those who are not like you."

your view of racism is blinkered. true, racism in its worst forms centers around violence, hatred, even death. however, that is the minority, and has largely been stamped out (except, possibly, in Zimbabwe). currently, in my experience, racism is predominantly on a much lower, more simple level.

what is racism? quite simply, it is distinguishing of people by race, and subsequent descrimination. allow me to apply this to your statements above. you have said (U_P) that you wish to live only with white people. in that statement you have distinguished between people who are white, and those that aren't; step one. you have then said you only want those white people around you, which is descrimination; step two. et voila, racism. a very simple, non harmful (at least on the face of it) form of racism.

at this point i should raise my hand and confess that i too very often exhibit racist tendancies without thinking. i was raised in the military, perhaps the most racist, sexist, homophobic institution in britain. however, i try to avoid the 'little racisms' that are so easy to make.

as always - and sorry this has strayed somewhat off-topic - any comments welcome.

- qo.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 04:25 AM
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It's terribly difficult to discuss these things with any clarity because there just isn't a sufficiently robust definition of "race".
Often what we call "racism" is actually "colourism" (for want of a better word - no one will object very much in England if two typical Swedes moved in next door; but if two blacks moved in, some would be very upset.
Sometimes it's "religionism" - although there's a sort of view that Jews are a race -Jews come from every ethnic type known to man, more or less -even blond blue-eyed ones.
I think you can talk reasonably cogently about "institutional" racism -where laws or other regulations clearly distinguish between races. Even then, I'm not sure if it has to be to the detriment of one or the other race.
Would an education system that insisted d that Blacks and Whites sat separately but in every other respect treated the students equally: would that be racism?
I'd be interested if any posters could claim -hand on heart -that he or she had never had a "racist" thought.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 04:32 AM
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..whatever its merits it's pretty poor writing -historically it is often either misleading, half-right or just plain wrong.
Certainly the mentions of France show little awareness of the rather curious history of relationships between the US and France -one recalls De Gaulle who would often insist that France's nuclear weapons were pointed at tous azimuths -in every direction; or the curious half-in half-out position of France in Nato.
It is also worth bearing in mind that France has, rightly or wrongly, felt betraed in other areas -like Britain she remembers Suez, she also remembers Vietnam. Nations like people all too often remember grievances (real or imagined) far longer than they remember kindnesses.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 04:38 AM
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elementary, poor. To begin by accusing one's opponents of "not fully understanding" -while it's a good cheap gibe is not a way to influence or persuade intelligent people - it's a sneaky way of saying that tehy are ignorant while teh writer is omniscient.
The little dig in "friends" is also very, very obvious.
As for the ramifications (what a wrod) of 9-11 -no one understands them. Half the Boards on the Net would be empty if anyone did.
It is precisely because we don't understand the anomalous official picture that we post on the topic.
We all understand the Party Line. What we don't understand is how the evidence supports the Party Line.
And if we did -to what extent is that sufficient cause to become involved in a war in Iraq? Why not join the Russians bombing Chechnya -or bomb the Israelis and the Palestinians at the same time?
Poor, poor stuff but an alarming indication of the Media's true opinion of its audience.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 06:01 AM
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Quiet1, if I understand, my friends ( blacks/hispanics/turkishs/morocos/arabs/koreans ( and I don'ts speak about our religions and poltical views who are differents also ) and myself, we are ALL racists.

We are living all together, but we are all a soft racists bunch.

Almost everybody on earth want to live with peoples like him. Blacks want to live with blacks, whites want to live with whites, muslims want to live with muslims,socialists want to live with socialists and so on....It's NORMAL ! Peoples are just looking for peoples like them.

If a christian want to live with a christian, it's ok. A muslim want to live with others muslims ? It's ok. But when a " race " want to live with his own " race " , this " race " is racist with you. I don't subscribe to your point of view ( thanks Sting
).

Do you know what's a cultural identity ? We have all one. Each race on earth have his own cultural identity who's definited by his " color ", his " faith ", his " way of life ", his " past ", his " collective behaviour ", his " foods ", his " history" ....etc...etc...

You can't mix all the races, or you'll destroy all their cultural identity.

Look the USA. After the Vietnam war, many vietnameses went to the USA, and they are now living together.

Or the Chinese, with their little " China Town " in L.A. Are they racists ? I don't think so, but with your point of view, they are.

Or in London, with the Indians or Pakistaneses. They are living together, Indian with Indians, and pakistaneses with Pakistaneses. With you, they are all racists. Me, I think they just want to live with peoples who shares the same culture like them.

Could you let peoples living like they want please ? And don't call them racists when they tell you that they want to live with peoples like them.

You don't understand it, but your multi-cultural rethoric exceed everybody. Whites, blacks, hispanics, arabs...all of them are exceeded. And you are creating some problems between all of them.

One of my friends ( who's black and muslim ha ha ha ) told me this : I'll not vote for him ( he was speaking about a socialist ). Do you know why ? Cuz this socialist had done a speech with the same arguments like yours. " We are all the same and bla bla bla....... " He told me he wasn't like me. I was white, he was black. He was Muslim and I was Christian.

So what ??? He's racist may be ??? He's nazi ???

One more time, I tell you this:If you want to live with peoples who are different from you, just do it. But don't call racists peoples who want to live with peoples like them. They are not racists and they don't want to do war with peoples who are not like them.

Just let the peoples chose their lifestyles, and don't try to chose for them. Things will go better.



P.S : And Estragon has right. We are in the " war on terrorism forum ", in the " An open letter to Europe " topic, and we are speaking about a so-called racism. We are far beyond the original subject.



[Edited on 30-10-2002 by ultra_phoenix]



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 06:12 AM
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LOL, U-P!
Your story reminds me of a time when I was talking to the lady that used to live down the street. She was a black lady, and as well as a muslim. It was amusing that we were talking about how races cannot live together very well, and that they should be seperated so as to have their own unhindered was of being.
While we discussed this, it dawned on me that I was a white Christian and she was a black Muslim living peacefully in the same neighborhood. When I pointed that out to her, her response was "You know, we humans is some strange animals, ain't we?"
Yup, I gotta say we are.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 07:02 AM
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Isn't that so amazing! And I think you will find that there are far more people who would disagree with races being separated than agree with the one black person you have ever spoken to. In South Africa the coloureds and blacks were turned into second class citizens. This bred resentment and more social unrest than if they were allowed to co-exist as a single community.

And why is it such a big deal that you spoke to one black muslim? Does she represent the views of the entire black community of America? No.

Thank God no one would believe your's represent the views of the entire white community.



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 09:06 AM
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Let me ask you guys a question...

Do black babies only want to play with black babies... White babies only with white babies... Etc???



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Fantastic_Damage

Isn't that so amazing! And I think you will find that there are far more people who would disagree with races being separated than agree with the one black person you have ever spoken to. In South Africa the coloureds and blacks were turned into second class citizens. This bred resentment and more social unrest than if they were allowed to co-exist as a single community.


What's going on FD ? Now, you have to speak about the apartheid ? Are you looking for some news arguments ?



Posted by Fantastic_Damage

And why is it such a big deal that you spoke to one black muslim? Does she represent the views of the entire black community of America? No.


It's not the big deal. It was just a simple story. But you right, it's not represent the whole entire black community of america point of view.



Posted by Fantastic_Damage

Thank God no one would believe your's represent the views of the entire white community.


ha ha ha....I find you short in arguments FD. Go to the " arguments station ", and fill in your " arguments tank ". You need it !


It's your problem man, you think that you represent the majority.In fact, you're the minority, and that's why you are so.....huuum...you are so.... you are so " like you are ".



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
Let me ask you guys a question...

Do black babies only want to play with black babies... White babies only with white babies... Etc???



Let me ask you a question.

Do babies are smoking ? No, they don't do it. They have to wait to grow. Smoking, is it good ? No, it's bad !

tsss tsss....



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
LOL, U-P!
Your story reminds me of a time when I was talking to the lady that used to live down the street. She was a black lady, and as well as a muslim. It was amusing that we were talking about how races cannot live together very well, and that they should be seperated so as to have their own unhindered was of being.
While we discussed this, it dawned on me that I was a white Christian and she was a black Muslim living peacefully in the same neighborhood. When I pointed that out to her, her response was "You know, we humans is some strange animals, ain't we?"
Yup, I gotta say we are.


....We are living all in good hamony here ( Belgium ), except some leftists A.S.S and muslims fundamentalists who are rotting our lives, whites, blacks, christians, jews, muslims are enjoying a pretty good neighborhood.

Leftists have to see problems where problems doesn't exist, otherwise their leftist life would be without interest.

BTW, their life has no interest.And it's normal you know. Since the fall of the former USSR, they have to find a new " cause ". Before, it was the fuc*^ capitalists, now, it's the fuc*^ racists.


Woaaw TC, I wonder what will be their next cause ? Any idea ?



posted on Oct, 30 2002 @ 02:04 PM
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"Do babies are smoking?"

What kind of grammar is that???

Come with better posts than that...
You didn't get my point at all.

When babies grow up, they get indoctrinated. Away from they original state, which is they don't see that another baby is from the same race or another race... All they see is another baby they can play with.
Grown men and women can learn a lot from babies...




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