It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

OP/ED: The New America of tomorrow

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 06:16 AM
link   
The Immigration Bill. Its been called everything, from "racists" to "amnesty" and the bill has met protest across the Union. With Hispanics holding banners and chanting "we want our land back" and others openly admit they "want Southern Western states to join Mexico". To be honest, a smaller Union would not be a bad thing for America.
 


President Abraham Lincoln did say that the United States would never be divided again. Sadly, it seems, the Union is once again divided. Mexican immigration is very high, and there is believed to be about 12 million illegal workers within the United States, mostly from Mexico and other Hispanic States. With this 12 million workers, who are not paying tax and who are living in poverty, the average American has to pay for them aswell (illegal immigration is a huge problem for any Economy).



Above is a statistical map of Hispanic immigration in the United States, as we can see, the majority are around the South Western States. These majority States are, what use to be called, Aztlan. Wiki gives this excellent description of Aztlan;



Aztlán ([asˈ.tlan], from Nahuatl Aztlan [ˈas.tɬaːn]) is the legendary ancestral home of the Aztec, also known as the "Mexica". It is represented as a volcano in a lake, located in what is now north of Mexico (including the territory from Texas to California annexed by the United States after the Mexican-American War), onto which the first Mexica emerged at the beginning of the fourth world. The word Aztec, rarely used by the Mexica to describe themselves, derives from Aztecatl, meaning "from Aztlán." The character of the place itself has less of a role in the legendary histories than the migration that was undertaken by the Mexica after they left Aztlán and before they settled in Tenochtitlan (also an island in a lake, the replica of their original home).

en.wikipedia.org...



So Aztlan is apparently, currently, "occupied" and the calls are coming for independence then a merge with Mexico. I say, let them have it. Here are my reasons; (the call is coming from Aztlan groups and Mexicans who want South Western States back)

Poverty

Illegal immigrants live in Poverty, get free health care, they do not speak English and they do not pay taxes. All of these factors are a drain on a Economy. Poverty restricts Economic growth. Removing these States will cut down the drain on the Economy and the money, that has to be spent on illegal immigration, can be invested to other parts of the Union.

GDP

Gross domestic product is one way of measuring the size of the Economy. The United States has the largest Economy in the World, which i believe the current GDP is 3.5%, the biggest sector of the US Economy is service. The Southern States have the lowest median incomes with some living below the Poverty line. If Hispanics and Mexico want these States, they will have to take on the poverty within these States. This means the United States will loose a large percentage of the Poverty drain on its Economy. With less States within the Union, the Government can invest in other sectors of the Economy, increasing the budget of Manufactoring in Cities like Detriot and create job opportunities with investment in poorer areas of the Union.

With cutting unemployment, investing in poorer areas and spending more on manufactoring, the United States can aim to be increasing its GDP to about 5+%

Government

Of course, a smaller Union will result in an easier time to administrate over. History has shown, the a large country can be hard to control over.

Better unity?

With a smaller Union and less Cizitens, the country will become a closer community. The nation will probably become more tighter and more patriotic in their nation and fellow country men.

Border control

Due to the United States giving up states, its border control accross the Union will become a lot more tighter on immigration from Hispanic States. This will be a good thing for the United States as it tries to maintain its leadership within the world.

Final thoughts and my views, do i think this will happen? I can see a break away within the next 10 years and i do not think it will be a bad move by the United States. Overall, it will create a better Union for the American people. Sometimes, history shows us that fresh starts can be a good thing.

Related News Links:
www.worldnetdaily.com
www.mnforsustain.org
www.freerepublic.com
sayanythingblog.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Illegal Immigrants want to take over South/Western States and merge with Mexico
America is about to collapse it seems.


[edit on 4-4-2006 by infinite]




posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 09:02 AM
link   
This is a joke, right?

Sure, let's just get rid of all of those states...none of them are any good for anything anyway, right?

Let's give the Rocky Mountains, the nation's largest wilderness areas and National Parks, the vast majority of the logging areas, a large portion of the mining and farming areas, all of the Pacific ports, and the homes of everyone like me (those that aren't 'smart' enough to live in the areas you see as worthwhile) to Mexico, because you think the US would be better off without this area.

Sometimes, a part of me thinks the US would be better off if we got rid of Washington DC, most of Southern California and all the other 'cultural centers' of the US (you know, the places where some people see the worth of others as determined by their address?). But, the rest of me realizes that these areas are worthwhile and have lots of good people living in them.

Maybe you should take a step back and really think about what you are proposing? Then again, maybe you'll never "get it".



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:04 AM
link   


because you think the US would be better off without this area.


Yes, apparently its my sole opinion on this, buts lets forget about the others shall we? including opinions and views from both sides of the border

So, you have continuing Civil disorder in these States, and my friends who i have in the are are talking about some sort of Civil War. But yet again, you like to think its just my idea..

Seeings you are the expert on this matter, shall the US keep these States, do nothing about illegal immigration, cripple your Economy then wait for a Civil War?
cause from talking to people from the area, they can see that happening.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:19 AM
link   
First off from what I understand the vast majority of illeagal aliens are hard working and pay taxes. Second of all Hispanics have been the majority in that region since it became a part of the United States and was controlled by either Spain or Mexico for over three hundred years before that. Third If we hadn't become so fat and lazy, with everybody wanting the cushy jobs OR the companies that control this country so greedy, we could and would do these jobs that the immigrants are doing. Fourth the vast majority of theses illegal aliens are the type of people we want in this country in the first palce (unless of course you're racist), they are hard working, they go where the jobs are, they do without to send money back home to their families in order to support them, not to mention the fact that they risk their lives to do so. What better citizen material could they be. And oh yes there are those who have enlisted (and died) to serve our country. Finally there was a book back in either the late 70's or early 80's called if my memory serves, "The Seven Nations of North America" (will check on that) that asserted that the social/cultural differences inherent in the various sections of the United States would continue until it either pulled the country apart into seperate countries or ended up dismantling the federal system as we know it for a looser confereration.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:39 AM
link   
Hmm. All these topics concerning a "civil war" with Mexico just seem like a bunch of carp to me...

I mean really, is the US Government just going to give Area 51 over to Mexico overnight without a fight? No.

Though I do admit that there are some areas that we (the United States) would be better off without, I still accept that they are a part of the Union. Whether or not we like it, the states are all part of a family, and to just give a state or any part of a state would be just like giving a child or brother to another family.

I won't let it happen, no matter how much I don't like the state or city that's trying to be taken.

I also laughed when I saw that this landmass that would be the New Aztlan includes Western Kansas. I mean, who wants Kansas for anything more than wheat growing? Sure there is some oil/natural gas there, but not enough to make it valuable. And the only real geographical feature is Mt. Sunflower (elevation like 4,000 ft, more of a hill than a mountain).

I can just see it now..."Remember Mt. Sunflower!!!"


That would go down in history well....



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:54 AM
link   
Honestly that has got to be the most idiotic idea i have ever heard...Lets get rid of California a region the has a gross income more than most country's.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:58 AM
link   
So... Let "them" have "it", huh?
I take it the original poster doesn't live in one of the states they're so willing to chop off and let fall to the dogs...


Well, I do. And I'm not interested in moving to the east coast to remain in my country.

United we stand, divided we fall? I guess we fall.

What bothers me most about this is that once again, we are being divided over an issue that stems from fear. This subject of Mexicans taking over the US is the new terrorism. The people of the US are turning their backs on the government that has deceived them, so the government must stir up another 'enemy' to unite us against. However, it's using a divisive technique to do so. It's threatening to split us right down the middle if we don't do something about the evil Mexicans.


And what breaks my heart is that, apparently, many are buying it, lock stock and barrel! Six months ago, no one had even heard about this issue, but all of a sudden, it's the main story in the news: Immigration! The new Terrorism!

It's like you have mold on your bread and you want to tear off a piece and throw it away. That's disgusting to me! And what makes you think "they" won't continue to encroach into YOUR precious country and take it over as well?

Well, maybe you are willing to give up half of your country but I'm not. If this government gave a flying crap about the security and safety of it's citizens, it would DO SOMETHING about illegal immigration instead of opening up the borders and encouraging this situation. And if you think the US government isn't encouraging this this movement, you need to Follow the Money and see where it leads...



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 10:59 AM
link   
Just to pipe in:

Immigrants earn money for the United Kingdom, even illegal immigrants are giving more than they take. The Home Office have admitted to this, as have many other Nation's. Even reported here on ATSNN.
If your system is built so that you do not make the most out of something that'll happen, it's not the immigrants fault but the Governments. Furthermore many illegal immigrants do not live in poverty, it's the lazy American's who won't do the jobs the illegal immigrants will do. Like it or not, they're keeping your Nation floating.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 11:05 AM
link   
I personally think your OP-ED piece represents one of the most misinformed, preposterous propositions I have had the pleasure of being amused by since I came to ATS. Try reading what Grover posted to get an infinitely more accurate picture of the illegal immigration issue.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 11:18 AM
link   
There is obviously a lot of hype in the news for some reason...
I just dont see it in real life...

I live in Oklahoma, and as is known, we got lots of them mexCANS here...
and they are already part of our culture... We all are learning a sprinkling of spanish, and they are all struggling with english...
we all know to talk to the "speaker" of a group, if we want any better communication than "no problem" responses...

I still see the same crews working hard, on our roads, houses, cars, and restaurants...

I have no problem with an occassional language barrier... it is amazing how well charades work multi-lingually.

In fact, the issues we see the most problem with could be solved easily:
1. make them accountable to our laws fully... too many times ignorance is forgiven... ignorance is no excuse
2. force insurance on vehicles... maybe have a work sponsor type thing
3. employers need a way to keep it legal... they would all be willing to "pay on the books" if they were required to by law... just no incentive/fear behind it presently... this would insure a fair competition for jobs among natives, and immigrants (yep, all non "ferners" are "native" now)
4. require a term of community or government service (military or civil) maybe 1-2 yrs part time, for full citizens rights
5. require students to take remedial or intro to english courses, and DONT pass them just to get them thru...

the rest of the solutions are found over the border...
education system needs to be improved... if we can bring up the level of knowledge of the average mexCAN to that of Americans, then you would find an amazing thing... they are just as capable of being doctors, lawyers, and politicians as Americans of any race...

it is all about the great equalizer- education...
the problem with mexico is poor education, poor public health, and corruption/weakness of government and police.
without those strangleholds, all of mexico could look like Cancun, or at least Ensenada

I dont see how there can be even the beginnings of a civil war, unless it is for another reason, that draws the mexCANs into the fray thru favor trading...



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 11:20 AM
link   
To reply to your statements/questions, Infinite:


Yes, apparently its my sole opinion on this, buts lets forget about the others shall we? including opinions and views from both sides of the border

You submitted this as an op/ed, that means it is your opinion. I never stated it was solely yours. Also, if you don't like me disagreeing with your opinion, don't submit it for responses.


Seeings you are the expert on this matter, shall the US keep these States, do nothing about illegal immigration, cripple your Economy then wait for a Civil War?

I never stated I was an expert on anything, I simply stated my opinion of your opinion.

To clarify my opinions: Yes, the US should keep these states. No, the US should not "do nothing about illegal immigration, cripple your Economy then wait for a Civil War".

I don't have a solution for the illegal immigration problem, or the nation's economy, nor would I claim to be an expert on either. I simply don't believe (as you do) that the solution is to give away part of our nation.



Oh, just so you know, I didn't vote against your submission...you have your opinion and I will fight to my dying day for you to have the right to express it...but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 02:55 PM
link   
And why not built a wall like in Israël between America and Aztlan? The borders would be safe and everyone would be happy. Maybe it will be the decision of the next president or even the Fuhrer Bush!



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 02:55 PM
link   
Don't you think we should ask the residents of those southwestern
states what they want?

Infinite, have you factored in the enormous economic losses if we gave away California? It's only the 5th largest economy on the planet. Not to mention the huge tax revenues that would be lost to the U.S.

And what about the First Americans, the ones on reservations, who's tribes have sovereign status? (meaning they are treated like a separate nation). Wonder how they'd feel about being under Mexican rule and losing their sovereign status?

-Forestlady



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 03:14 PM
link   
I also live in a border state and don't see the horror stories about Illegals that seem to be the dividing tactic used by the racists and fear mongers that currently are populating the MSM and some even here on ATS.

Benevolent Heretic is absolutely right!! This is a tactic used by the elite to divide this nation to try and divert our attention from their corruption.
Many fools have been sucked into this propaganda because it is so much easier to find a scapegoat, than look at the actual situation and realize "you been a chump, bubba"

I'm not saying that there aren't problems but the sky isn't falling as some of the more vitriolic would have you believe.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by whaaa]



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 03:19 PM
link   
Well at least you will not see Puertorrican Hispanics in that group we do not go around trying to reclaim US for us.


Actually the puertorrican groups has stayed away from the issue that the pro immigration are trying to do.

And for the division of the land well that will benefit nobody else but corporate American and its interest groups.

At least I am living in GA so we have many migrant workers here but while the south American population is growing steadily I still have not see them around my neighborhood unless is for landscaping.

Is only two Hispanic Puertorricans living in my area and is me and another person.


But I will be truthful to you in the last 9 years I have been living in my area I am starting to see entire communities of south American poor migrants taking over the what was once poor black neighborhoods.

Because new housing has been made for the poor citizens and the mobile homes communities are now occupied by migrant workers.

Don't be fool by the reclaiming of the land, because that means that they still will demand US assistance and benefits.


You know before I was skeptical and really didn't care about the migration but now that I have a good look at what is going on and what interest groups are trying to accomplish I a very angry of the abuses against migrants and the way Americans has been brush off over those private interest.

Our politicians careless what happen to Americans or illegals as long as they serve the higher power that pays their political careers.

Shame.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 03:22 PM
link   
This is something that I cant ever see happening, just give these states to someone who dont belong here in the first place. And something I personally would never agree to as a citizen of this country, sure just give up all the heritage of what the people in these places struggled to build and call home. I acknowledge that this country has many issues and problems and could be a lot better with changes, but the fact remains its still my country, and giving up parts of it to illegals just dont fit into my reasoning.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 04:04 PM
link   
Honestly I don't think it's impossible, but I think the part of California given to them would be south of L.A, since well no one would be willing to give up Los Angeles county or the city itself.

I figure if something like this does happen, they'll (Mexico or Aztlan) get Arizona, New Mexico, The southern most part of Nevada and California south of Los Angeles county.


Anyways, I agree with Infinite, the US would be alot better off with less states.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 04:19 PM
link   
I suppose, Florida becomes the new Hawaii or Alaska of Aztlan?


Come on, infinite, this "plan" makes no sense...

I agree, in part, with BH. This topic is a new contrivance of a sensationalizing media, an incompetent congress, and a fear accepting populous....


No wonder our politics are so screwed in this country... :shk:



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 04:23 PM
link   
Actually loam you got it wrong Florida is to be the new Havana and Jamaica with a small land for the new San Juan.


Now don't mess around with Harlem or Manhattan that is littler Puerto Rico and occurs we won't mess around with China town.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 05:05 PM
link   
Egads, giving away the Southwest is not an option at all.

Infinite do you realize the southwest US is the fastest growing economic sector in the US? What economic school of thought is your idea based on, University of Suicidal Capitalism?


Top 10 fastest growing states -CNNMoney
Go West or South, young man. Most everybody, including home buyers, seems to be doing it.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



In contrast, the strength of the Southwest is largely attributable to its durable manufacturing (particularly machinery and computers) and mining sectors. Not only did this region gain population at twice the national rate, it also had the largest percentage increase in per capita income as well.
www.bea.gov...


If you want to embrace poverty and a fractured marginalized economic region,
I suggest you move to Africa and give us a report how well your idea is working there.

United we grow, divided we capitulate.




[edit on 4-4-2006 by Regenmacher]



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join