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Religion is not the big killer. Masonry is.

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posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Eye and piramid.
1 the piramid and the eye represents aicient egiptian culture of the god horus and orisis, orisis being god of the uderworld, horus being the son of orisis.
Artifact from egiptian museum.


Nobody said that the eye wasn't used by the Egyptians. I just pointed out that it didn't originate with them.



The eye is the sun, the sun is god(not our god ceck the bible)


Who's this "our"? Gotta a mouse in your pocket?


but horus, and he is above the piramid on top looking at the people , while they pray to him every morning, basicly they praid to the sun every morning so horus wont punish them.


Wrong. The sun was worshiped because it was viewed as the giver of physical life. They did not believe the sun was going to "punish" them.


Your interpretation about where it came from are totaly unrealistic, it started with the god of the sun in aicient egipt, it's related to ra, horus , orisis the one you worship.


Wrong again. It was used in India long before Egypt. I could mention how the Vedas predate the Papyrus of Ani, but you've probably never even heard of them, much less read them.



basicly everithing comes from there compas and sqare is an artifact that you will find in egiptian museum, and it's 100% atribueted and represents aicient egipt.


What square and compass, what artifact, and what museum?




posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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The pyramid probably originated with the Greek mathematicians.


This is a ludrious statement. If you had any knowledge of history at all you would realize that the egyptian culture pre-dated nearly every civilization on the planet. The only argument you could possible raise is whether the pryamid was first developed by egyptians or mesopotamians.

And biblically, many aspects of Freemasonry differ from the teachings of the Holy Bible.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
pepsi78

I think you're getting mixed up between Masonic Light and me. It would appear that's not the only thing you're mixed up about.

Your just evoiding my quotes,got material show it, links please.
else you dont expect us to take your word for it, masonic dogma is a mix of aicient egiptian and mesopotanian culture, I got pictures of masonic lodges with little angels with goat feet on the doors of the lodge, little mesopotanians worshiping painted all over the walls of the lodge.
And for the eye you sustain it's the eye of god, which is not the case.
You dontmake sence my friend, you tell me not to pick on cristianity but later say that the bible has been proven wrong, in other words the bible is not valid, there for cristianity is not valid.
That is just your way of geting out of the mess.
by the way why do you keep bibles in the lodge since they dont represent the true word for you? I can not see why, it must be to convince fools .



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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Bible Vs. Oaths

Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven . . . nor by the earth . . . . Neither shalt thou swear by thy head . . . . But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

James 5:12 ". . . swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

So your saing not to trust the bible
great stuff, yet you have one in every lodge,you dont make sence,ohh but that is just for the surface , since you in your on statement say it has proven wrong.


The Bible is used traditional in Masonic Lodges, as the symbol of Divine Will. However, Masonry does not require its members to literally believe it, or be Christians.

Some of the stuff the Bible says or insinuates that has been proven wrong:

1. The earth has four corners (the Bible writers though the world was flat).

2. All creatures were created basically the same as they are now (we now know that the various species evolved from extinct common ancestors).

3. The universe was created in six days about 6,000 years ago (we now know that the universe came into existence around 14 billion years ago, and is continuing to expand and create (i.e., creation is still going on, it didn't stop on the Jewish sabbath).

4. Rainbows are a sign that God will never destroy the world by flood again (we now know that there was never a worldwide flood, and rainbows are simply white light streams broken through a prism).

5. Man was created before any other animal (we now know that dinosaurs and many other animals walked the earth before humans appeared).



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:13 AM
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Who's this "our"? Gotta a mouse in your pocket?

well dont you belive the eye in the eye of god?



Wrong. The sun was worshiped because it was viewed as the giver of physical life. They did not believe the sun was going to "punish" them.

And do you belive the same?




What square and compass, what artifact, and what museum?


The egiptian museum holds the one of it's bigest simbols as an artifact , it's the square and compas, it's noted as being one of the bigest simbols of aicient egipt.

The conclusion is that it all has to do with egipt or are related to egipt, horus,ra
A There for masonary is incompatible with the bible.
B There for masonary is incompatible with god.

None of the simbols has to do in any way with god that we know today, no such simbols are atribuited to him, there is no asociation that can be done, there for we are talking about other gods/god which tends to have dark suroundings based on their history.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by Distracto


This is a ludrious statement. If you had any knowledge of history at all you would realize that the egyptian culture pre-dated nearly every civilization on the planet.


I minored in history in college, and studied ancient civilizations closely. Anyone who would make the statement that the Egyptian Osirian civilization predates every other is obviously not well versed in history. Much, if not all, of Osirianism, along with its symbolism, did not appear in Egypt until well after the Hyksos arrived. This in itself proves that it does not predate the Indian religious culture of Vedic antiquity, and most historians agree that the Hyksos introduced cultural diffusion into Egypt that was carried from Indian culture.


The only argument you could possible raise is whether the pryamid was first developed by egyptians or mesopotamians.


Euclid and Pythagoras were Greeks, not Egyptians. Using pyramids as actual buildings is an entirely different question, though (although even here, it could be speculated that South Americans may have beat the Egyptians to it).


And biblically, many aspects of Freemasonry differ from the teachings of the Holy Bible.


And many teachings of the Holy Bible differ from the teachings of the Zend Avesta, and many teachings of the Analects of Confucius differ from the teachings of the Communist Manifesto, but none of that has anything to do with what we're talking about.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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The earth has four corners (the Bible writers though the world was flat).


Misinterpretation- Refers to North, South, East, and West



All creatures were created basically the same as they are now (we now know that the various species evolved from extinct common ancestors).


Misinterpretation- Natural Selection has modified animal behavior. Evolution is a unproven theory.



The universe was created in six days about 6,000 years ago (we now know that the universe came into existence around 14 billion years ago, and is continuing to expand and create (i.e., creation is still going on, it didn't stop on the Jewish sabbath).


Days may be slightly different between you and God.



Rainbows are a sign that God will never destroy the world by flood again (we now know that there was never a worldwide flood, and rainbows are simply white light streams broken through a prism).


Interesting, considering nearly every ancient culture recounts a major flood.




Man was created before any other animal (we now know that dinosaurs and many other animals walked the earth before humans appeared).


What bible are you reading? Gen 24- And God said let the earth bring forth every creature..... Gen 27- So god created man in his image...



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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And many teachings of the Holy Bible differ from the teachings of the Zend Avesta, and many teachings of the Analects of Confucius differ from the teachings of the Communist Manifesto, but none of that has anything to do with what we're talking about.


It has everything to do with what we are talking about- especially when others attempt to classify Masonry as a brotherhood that coincides with christian values.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Distracto]



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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The Bible is used traditional in Masonic Lodges, as the symbol of Divine Will. However, Masonry does not require its members to literally believe it, or be Christians.

I see no problem in that.



Some of the stuff the Bible says or insinuates that has been proven wrong:

I see a problem here, why do you hold a bible in the lodge?
Since for you in does not hold correct refreces for you , it would be used for what?
Since you dont think it holds out the correct refrence then I would say how ever correct or wrong on this matter you are in contradiction with what it says in the book, there for you are in contradiction with cristianity.



1. The earth has four corners (the Bible writers though the world was flat).

Maybe it is, maybe we just see it round, maybe we can rip a whole thru space and show it's just a sheet.



2. All creatures were created basically the same as they are now (we now know that the various species evolved from extinct common ancestors).

It does not refrence caracteristics on animals, it does not focus on biological properies, the bible does not do that.



3. The universe was created in six days about 6,000 years ago (we now know that the universe came into existence around 14 billion years ago, and is continuing to expand and create (i.e., creation is still going on, it didn't stop on the Jewish sabbath).

Six days may have been quite a time, you got the notion of the new calendar that has started from christ and ended up here, depending on the cicle of earth, depending how years were calculated,we may never know.



4. Rainbows are a sign that God will never destroy the world by flood again (we now know that there was never a worldwide flood, and rainbows are simply white light streams broken through a prism).

No, there was a documentary on national geografic that in fact sustains the posibility of a big flood, and it focuses on the arc of noe.

What matters now is that you are proving more and more that you are in contradicton of cristianity.
There for you belive something else?to be god, and not the old version.



5. Man was created before any other animal (we now know that dinosaurs and many other animals walked the earth before humans appeared).

But then again only 1 family survived after the flood, so it would by hard to find it.

I dont hold any of this against you any way because you belive different, I'm just pointing out that you belifes are not compatible with cristianity or of god, and that can be seen miles away.
further more, any mason will back you up and will say the same, so this is not a single case.
In fact just admit that masonary is not compatible with crestianity, get it over done, in fact that's what bothers me, that masonary as an organisation is not honest.


[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Distracto


It has everything to do with what we are talking about- especially when others attempt to classify Masonry as a brotherhood that coincides with christian values.


Masonry is a brotherhood that coincides with all true values, not only sectarian ones. While there is nothing in Masonry that would exclude the Christian, there is also nothing to disclude the Deist, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Taoist, or the Hindu.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Its also interesting to note that Freemasonic membership has fallen dramatically over the past years. Hmmm...



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Distracto


It has everything to do with what we are talking about- especially when others attempt to classify Masonry as a brotherhood that coincides with christian values.


Masonry is a brotherhood that coincides with all true values, not only sectarian ones. While there is nothing in Masonry that would exclude the Christian, there is also nothing to disclude the Deist, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Taoist, or the Hindu.

But since you are in contradiction with the bible you are in contradiction with cristianity.
How many share you view on the bible from the masonic ranks?
Do you all sustain the same?
I would like to know, but basicly what ever you aswer you will cause more questions, if you say yes, then we can deduct that even crestin masons are in contradiction with the bible, if not then I want to talk to one that is not.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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While there is nothing in Masonry that would exclude the Christian, there is also nothing to disclude the Deist, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Taoist, or the Hindu.


-edited for clarity
While there is nothing in Masonry that would exclude the FREEMASONIC Christian, there is also nothing to disclude the FREEMASONIC Deist, the FREEMASONIC Jew, the FREEMASONIC Buddhist, the FREEMASONIC Taoist, or the FREEMASONIC Hindu.

Your order just excludes everyone else. After all, its a secret. Thats the main reason why you swear oaths to keep it a secret....



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

well dont you belive the eye in the eye of god?


In Masonry, the All Seeing Eye is the symbol of the omnipresence of God. There is also an esoteric, occult meaning to the Eye, although it is not used in Masonry, but sheds light on its origin as a symbol.



"Wrong. The sun was worshiped because it was viewed as the giver of physical life. They did not believe the sun was going to "punish" them."

And do you belive the same?


Yes, I'm quite convinced that the sun is not going to punish me. I'm also reasonably assured that the sun is the giver of physical life, inasmuch as without it we would die. All this is pretty elementary.




"What square and compass, what artifact, and what museum?"

The egiptian museum holds the one of it's bigest simbols as an artifact , it's the square and compas, it's noted as being one of the bigest simbols of aicient egipt.


So you've said, I'm just waiting for some proof. I've never seen the square and compass used on any papyrus or in hieroglyphs, or in religious sites, which they no doubt would have been if they were in fact "one of the biggest simbols of aicient egipt" (sic).



None of the simbols has to do in any way with god that we know today, no such simbols are atribuited to him, there is no asociation that can be done, there for we are talking about other gods/god which tends to have dark suroundings based on their history.


Again, you're floating off on your own personal religious beliefs, which I promise I care nothing about. To quote Joe Friday, "Just the facts, m'am".



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Distracto


Your order just excludes everyone else. After all, its a secret. Thats the main reason why you swear oaths to keep it a secret....


If the order was a secret, then obviously you wouldn't know about it. Nor would you have been able to plagiarize McLenachan, like you did on another thread.

Who ever heard of people trying to keep something a secret by publishing books on it? You guys crack me up!



[edit on 16-6-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:53 AM
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First off we only know what freemasons tell us. They exclude everyone from their ceremonies and meets- so there is NO WAY to validate anything you tell us because it is, in fact, a one sided debate. If you want to know about christianity you can talk to a pastor. Judiasm- talk to a rabbi etc... To know the innerworkings of Masonry you have to swear oaths and become a member...

Second off, I listed sources for my article in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of my post. Read it, see for yourself!



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

But since you are in contradiction with the bible you are in contradiction with cristianity.


I never claimed to be a member of your religion. I don't understand why you keep bringing your religious opinions up. My religious beliefs are similar to Buddhism and Taoism. In the lodge the Bible is a symbol of the Divine Will. Masons aren't required to literally believe in its contents unless they themselves are Christians.


How many share you view on the bible from the masonic ranks?


I don't know, why don't you ask them?


Do you all sustain the same?


No, Masons do not all agree about religion. That's why there's a rule that forbids arguing about it in the lodge.


I would like to know, but basicly what ever you aswer you will cause more questions, if you say yes, then we can deduct that even crestin masons are in contradiction with the bible, if not then I want to talk to one that is not.


I believe Trinityman is an orthodox Christian. I'm sure he'll be happy to answer your questions about Christianity and Masonry, but as for me, I'm a proud heretic.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Plagiarism is a form of academic dishonesty; it is a matter of deceit: fooling a reader into believing that certain written material is original when it is not.

In order to plagurize I would have claimed the research for my own. Why would I list a source if I was trying to fool you into thinking its origional content. Get your terms strait before you make wild accusations.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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In Masonry, the All Seeing Eye is the symbol of the omnipresence of God. There is also an esoteric, occult meaning to the Eye, although it is not used in Masonry, but sheds light on its origin as a symbol.

Do you agree this has nothing to do with the god from the bible even if you think such god form the bible does not exist , just for comparation



Yes, I'm quite convinced that the sun is not going to punish me. I'm also reasonably assured that the sun is the giver of physical life, inasmuch as without it we would die. All this is pretty elementary.

Life can continue to exist thru artificial light for worming it's a bit dificult but that can also be puled of with out the sun, but you seem to give a holy aurora to the sun rather than call it scientific.



So you've said, I'm just waiting for some proof. I've never seen the square and compass used on any papyrus or in hieroglyphs, or in religious sites, which they no doubt would have been if they were in fact "one of the biggest simbols of aicient egipt" (sic).

I'm sorry I had it shown just like the piramid, but it would be dificult to obtain now , I lost the pic I dont have the source anymore, I can asure you it was there in the window of the museum, identical , only it had a big tag on it on the bootom that said egipt, and it stated that it's one of the bigest simbols of egipt.




Again, you're floating off on your own personal religious beliefs, which I promise I care nothing about. To quote Joe Friday, "Just the facts, m'am".

No I'm basing my arguments on the bible, not by religion , but by study, it's just a study that will prove that no matter what you belive in, there in no connection betwen the simbols that you mention and the god from the bible.

I asked a question, since all masons belive the same that the bible has been proven wrong, then why do you keep one in every lodge?

Either you find some excuse not to aswer or dont answer directly, if there is nothing to hide aswer my questions .


[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]





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