Religion is not the big killer. Masonry is.

Two possibilities:

1. My Heart Will Go On - Celine Dion (the hidden underground Masonic queen, and will cause me to put all masons on ignore )or

2. An unaccredited Mozart song (Magic Flute?)

Come on Aristocrat spill the beans, this isn't secret. What is it, I’m curious. If I ever have to sit through that crap again at least I’ll have something to look forward to. I guess James Horner didn’t have to credit it, but it’s still kinda weird that he didn’t.

#149. Titanic (1997) (uncredited)

Is James Cameron really a mason BTW?


[edit on 5/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

if masonry isnt a religion then why the hell are they so uptight about mentioning jesus in a lodge?

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
if masonry isnt a religion then why the hell are they so uptight about mentioning jesus in a lodge?

I think this is the first time I've seen a lack of religious discussion in lodge cited as an example of evidence that freemasonry is a religion. Are you saying that every group which meets and doesn't mention Jesus is ipso facto a religion? Conversely, are you saying that groups which do mention Jesus are therefore not religions.

Please explain where you are coming from with this.

I think masons dont want jesus mentioned in the lodge or christianity because they simply wish for their newcomers to believe in the crazy twisted religious dogma that they create, the babylonian mystery school related stuff. Jahbulon, orisiris, sephiroth etc. Therefore, they dont have to worry about you being averted away from what they want youre nose in.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
if masonry isnt a religion then why the hell are they so uptight about mentioning jesus in a lodge?

Religion and politics are not generally allowed as discussion, because of what they have caused. Which is division between people.

From my understanding, no athiest can be a mason. Every person will have a different religious view, even though they may be of the same faith.

Bring up one or both of those subjects, and not far behind is an arguement or worse. Look at it that way, it isn't for a bad reason, it is a preventive measure.

I wish to point you all to this thread especially the author of this post. I wrote post earlier, in reference religion. The first paragraph isn't so much of importance but the rest is. Good luck with your research all and never stop asking questions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Researcher,

Blake K. Stoltman

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Religion and politics are not generally allowed as discussion, because of what they have caused. Which is division between people.

From my understanding, no athiest can be a mason. Every person will have a different religious view, even though they may be of the same faith.

Bring up one or both of those subjects, and not far behind is an arguement or worse. Look at it that way, it isn't for a bad reason, it is a preventive measure.

Advisor, very good summary. When we first become Masons, we are told that nothing in the fraternity will conflict with our religious or political opinions, "be they what they may". In Lodge meetings, instead of arguing about Jesus or Allah or George Bush or Bill Clinton, we just stick to the business at hand.

Funny.

I can't remeber freemasons firebombing the local pagan center. Or bombing abortion clinics. Or starting wars and jihads in the name of god.

Nope. This is because religon is the creation of humankind that is responsible for the most bloodshed and death.

Its Christianity that killed millions during its inquisition and witch/werewolf paranoia. It is Islam that has marched across the world waging murderous jihads and enslaving the infidels. Its christianity that traveled across oceans and wiped out the native belief systems and cultures of people in the new world and replaced it with their own religon. It is islam that glorifies terror, war, and bloodshed in the name of their god. It is Christianity that tries to wrestle control of the government to turn America into a theocracy. Its Islam that already has numerous corrupt theocracies.


It is because of groups like Freemasons that the west shrugged off the theocratic totalitarianism that kept us down in the dark ages and actually created sane governments and systems.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
I think masons dont want jesus mentioned in the lodge or christianity because they simply wish for their newcomers to believe in the crazy twisted religious dogma that they create, the babylonian mystery school related stuff. Jahbulon, orisiris, sephiroth etc. Therefore, they dont have to worry about you being averted away from what they want youre nose in.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter topsecretombomb. Actually there is no religious (or indeed any other form of) dogma within freemasonry. In fact it's mercifully free of such things. What freemasonry wants your nose in is your sacred book - for all freemasons who are Christians this means reading the Bible. Freemasonry believes that by following the moral tenets espoused within the Bible (and other religious books), a man can become a better person.

That's something I believe is worthwhile.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter topsecretombomb. Actually there is no religious (or indeed any other form of) dogma within freemasonry.

Tell that to your Worshipful Master.

The fact is nearly every promotion ceremony has numerous religious references. A member also has to affirm belief in a higher power. Why would this be a pre-requisite to a non-religious fraternal organization?

Also-
The measure and the rule is displayed in "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen." Its on a wall in a scene where the league meets.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Distracto]

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
if masonry isnt a religion then why the hell are they so uptight about mentioning jesus in a lodge?

Of course it's a religion, they even have an altar in the lodge, what does a altar mean by definition?, where do you find an altar?
They call their buildings temples, what are usualy called temples.


[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]

i said it last year, ill say it again...i wish my fellow brothers could just ignore these questions and accusations. let the world think what it wants about masonry...try as we want to deny ignorance, ignorance is easier to find than truth, for most people...and for every person you may show the unexciting truth to...10 more pop in with the usual:

1. freemasons are taking over the world
2. freemasons eat/molest babies
3. freemasonry is a religion
4. freemsons blew up my toilet and raped me in my sleep
5. freemasons are responsible for (insert world crisis here).

it's because we fight so hard to show the truth, that for the die hard anti masons, it just fuels the fire. so whats the point anymore? if people want the truth its been said a million times in a million previous posts, that people can just search. the people who want to know the truth will search...those who just like spouting untruths and generalizations wont look, and are the ones that it wouldnt matter trying to show the truth anyway.

so once again...why bother, brothers?

it's because we fight so hard to show the truth, that for the die hard anti masons, it just fuels the fire. so whats the point anymore? if people want the truth its been said a million times in a million previous posts, that people can just search. the people who want to know the truth will search...those who just like spouting untruths and generalizations wont look, and are the ones that it wouldnt matter trying to show the truth anyway.

The deffinition of altar.
education.yahoo.com...

1
an elevated place or structure before which religious ceremonies may be enacted or upon which sacrifices may be offered.
2
A structure, typically a table, before which the divine offices are recited and upon which the Eucharist is celebrated in Christian churches.

Now I belive you have one in every lodge.
Since it's not a cristian curch number 1 would aply.
masonary is a religion by definition.
Stop denying it.

so once again...why bother, brothers?

Because it keeps the conspiracy going.
The more you insist the more it looks funny.
Take any forum that is not related to conspiracy theory and I bet you wont find a concetration of masons as big as here.
It only shows a organised effort by you and your felow massons to change what is.
It shows you planed on geting here on this site, not because your intrested in the site, not because you got on it by accident but because you planed to.
That will only make the conpiracy biger, some will say,wow they just poped up like after the rain.

Originally posted by Distracto
Tell that to your Worshipful Master.

Its OK, he knows already. In fact every freemason knows it. Its just the know-it-all non-masons who seem to have trouble with this concept.

The fact is nearly every promotion ceremony has numerous religious references. A member also has to affirm belief in a higher power. Why would this be a pre-requisite to a non-religious fraternal organization?

What is a promotion ceremony? I've never heard of such a thing in freemasonry. Are you sure you're not getting freemasonry mixed up with something else?

As to the religious references... of course. Freemasonry is all about teaching morality tales, and God is the source. Without a belief in a Supreme Being the lessons are meaningless. It teaches the morality of the religion rather than the religion itself.

The measure and the rule is displayed in "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen." Its on a wall in a scene where the league meets.

Ah... I think we're now coming to understand the source of your knowledge about freemasonry...

Originally posted by yin_yang
why bother, brothers?

I'm here to deny ignorance. Admittedly I don't pick up every foolish comment I see on ATS... I'd be here all day if I did . But i've been here long enough to see the impact of patient responses over the long term, and I've also seen freemasons lose it through sheer fustration.

IMO it's worth it. And every now and again a Mr. Necros comes along, who sometimes makes me laugh out loud with some of the things he/she says.

I actually think this is a great site and a marvellous opportunity for those who are serious about conspiracy to despatch the red herrings and get focussed on the real conspiracies (such as the refereeing of England matches at the World Cup ).

Mason Jar

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Religion is not the big killer. Masonry is.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree 100% with Edelweiss Pirate on this.

Please allow me to explain.

Within my family is told the tale of a distant relative whose name I will not reveal for reasons of confidentiality.

This relative, whom I shall not name, as previously asserted, was indeed killed by Masonry.

Killed as dead as dead can be, and there were many witnesses of sound mind and impeccable character in attendance when it happened.

To be fair, Masonry alone was not entirely to blame. Religion was a factor, and cannot be held completely blameless in the death of this unfortunate distant relative, whose name shall remain anonymous.

For it was on a fine Sunday morning that this ill-fated predecessor was walking, as was his custom, to attend the weekly sabbath rites.

And just as he was crossing the threshold to the Lord's House, a loose piece of Masonry fell and struck him soundly on the head.

And killed him.

Masonry Kills!

Ah... I think we're now coming to understand the source of your knowledge about freemasonry...

I was merely responding indirectly to another post on this thread referencing Masonic symbolism in movies. In fact, Leauge of extraordinary gentlemen doesn't even reference Masonry besides for the brief appearence of the Square and Rule. If you resort to abusive remarks trying to establish credibility then you obviously lack intelligent dialectic.

What is a promotion ceremony? I've never heard of such a thing in freemasonry. Are you sure you're not getting freemasonry mixed up with something else?

Let me be more specific. In each degree you have a rite of initation. Don't even try to argue it, it is documented by your fellow mason Charles T. McClenachan, 33.
Serious religious influence is presented in nearly every degree of initation from the 4th onwards.

it's because we fight so hard to show the truth

Your brotherhood is sworn to secrecy. I don't see how truth and secrecy correspond. In addition, people of all races and religions discover truth for themselves- they don't need to employ Freemasonry to find it.

Originally posted by Distracto

Ah... I think we're now coming to understand the source of your knowledge about freemasonry...

I was merely responding indirectly to another post on this thread referencing Masonic symbolism in movies. In fact, Leauge of extraordinary gentlemen doesn't even reference Masonry besides for the brief appearence of the Square and Rule. If you resort to abusive remarks trying to establish credibility then you obviously lack intelligent dialectic.

What is a promotion ceremony? I've never heard of such a thing in freemasonry. Are you sure you're not getting freemasonry mixed up with something else?

Let me be more specific. In each degree you have a rite of initation. Don't even try to argue it, it is documented by your fellow mason Charles T. McClenachan, 33.
Serious religious influence is presented in nearly every degree of initation from the 4th onwards.

Everything has to do with religion and it's connected to religios simbols.
All the simbols they have are connected to religios meanings.
Albert pike even specifies masonary is a religion.
It has been documented that they form circles and hold hands just like druids do in religios ceremonies, same possition same aspect, same o same o.
Masonary is a religion, for them it can be writen black on white "masonary is a religion" and still they would deny it.
That's the teachings the recive, what is important is not to convince them, they cant be convinced, they have been converted and suport the cause , they will lie they will do anything, important is to let others know what masonary is about.
Maybe others that just joined still have a chance.

Originally posted by Distracto


The fact is nearly every promotion ceremony has numerous religious references. A member also has to affirm belief in a higher power. Why would this be a pre-requisite to a non-religious fraternal organization?

Actually, it's a prerequisite to practically all non-religious fraternal organizations I've ever heard of, including Greek Letter Societies in colleges. The same holds true for Boy Scouts of America, and Girl Scouts.