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The Real History & Motives of Freemasonry

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posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 12:38 PM
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Ok, I’ve watch the video again and here are some of the interesting things I noted:

  1. The papers found on Lanze (Bavarian Illuminati who got zapped) contained letters addressed to the Grand Lodge of France, in Paris.

  2. The Masons acknowledge credit for the French revolution. In a publication entitled “humanist” (humanism?) of June 1988. (of course no one mason speaks for all masons, I just thought that masons strictly denied this.)

  3. Lenin was a 31° mason in a French lodge (cannot spell it something like arts et travails(travaux?, or arts aux travers, can’t tell, sorry) And was also initiated in 1914, into the Grand Orient of the Ninth Sisters.

  4. Pierre Charles L’Enfant was a mason. (is this confirmed?)

  5. The reason for his subtitle “The Emissaries of Jahbulon” is a reference to a spider with 3 heads, called Jahbulon. (13°, Scot Rite)


    And finally the Rothschild:

    Nathan Lodge of emulation, London. (Thanks for the confirmation on this one ML


    James and Anselm Rothschild were members of the Masonic Supreme Council of France. (unconfirmed)

    Ferdinand was initiated in Lodge no. 2420, England. (unconfirmed)

    Lionel Walter joined whiled studying at Oxford. Recruited by Alfred Milner. (unconfirmed)

    You guys might have to check here for the Mayer Amschel Rothschild family tree.

    I would love confirmation (a la masonic light) or more information on any of the points above. Thanks.



    [edit on 6/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]




posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

I would love confirmation (a la masonic light) or more information on any of the points above. Thanks.


I'll try.


  • The papers found on Lanze (Bavarian Illuminati who got zapped) contained letters addressed to the Grand Lodge of France, in Paris.


  • This story is fictional. No one ever got zapped. The formerly secret documents of the Illuminati were published by Weishaupt while in exile in order to prove that the charges made against his Order were false. The legend that these papers were discovered on the person of an Illuminati courier after being struck by lightning is, although original and sort of funny, not true.


  • The Masons acknowledge credit for the French revolution. In a publication entitled “humanist” (humanism?) of June 1988. (of course no one mason speaks for all mason, I just thought that masons strictly denied this.)


  • I suppose it would be possible for a Mason to acknowledge credit for the French Revolution, but this would only show his own ignorance of history and cultural conditions in 18th century France. No serious researcher of historian would make that claim.


  • Lenin was a 31° mason in a French lodge (cannot spell it something like arts et travails(travaux?, or arts aux travers, can’t tell, sorry) And was also initiated in 1914, into the Grand Orient of the Ninth Sisters.


  • None of the Bolsheviks were Masons in any form, regular or irregular. In his autobiography, Trotsky tells us that he had studied Freemasonry in his youth, but was never himself a Mason.

    The general uprising that occured in St. Petersburg in February of 1717 eliminated the czarist power, and a democratic government was established under Kerensky as Prime Minister. Kerensky was a Mason, as were most of his advisors and subordinates in the new government.

    In October of that year, the Bolsheviks called for a general strike, and began military offenses against Kerensky's establishment, which lead to the civil war. Eventually, Kerensky was forced to resign and a Soviet republic was declared. Soon afterward, due to high concentration of Masons within the Kerensky government and military, the Bolsheviks outlawed Freemasonry because they did not want the so-called "Whites" to plot against the new Marxist regime.


  • Pierre Charles L’Enfant was a mason. (is this confirmed?)


  • L'Enfant was always a very notable anti-Mason, and had never been a member of the fraternity. He published an anti-Masonic journal in Paris called "Freemasonry Exposed". Since he had no personal experiences with the Craft and was a devout Catholic, he fell for Taxil's hoodoo hook, line, and sinker, and was the first to publish the Pike/Lucifer hoax as a real-life story. After L'Enfant discovered it was a hoax, he at least had the decency to retract the story publicly. Unfortunately, anti-Masons today quote his original article all the time, but ignore his retraction.


  • The reason for his subtitle “The Emissaries of Jahbulon” is a reference to a spider with 3 heads, called Jahbulon.


  • There are no spiders in Freemasonry.



    James and Anselm Rothschild were members of the Masonic Supreme Council of France. (unconfirmed)


    This would be unlikely. Even if they had been Masons, they would not have qualified for Scottish Rite membership in France because they were Jews, and the French Scottish Rite, like in England, admits only Masons who are trinitarian Christians.



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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    Originally posted by Masonic Light
    This story is fictional


    I ran into this legend before because a similar story is told for the Protocols of Zion, that lightning legend is fictional. However the fact that the Illuminatus Lanz got stuck by lightning and compromizing papers were discovered on him isn’t fictional.



    "When my late friend Lanz was struck by lightning at my side in the year 1785 in Regensburg, what an opportunity this could have provided me to play the penitent and remorseful hypocrite, and thus gain the confidence of my persecutors."

    Source:

    Die Illuminaten, Quellen und Text zur Aufklärungsideologie des Illuminatenordens (1776-1785)

    as quote on:
    freemasonry.bcy.ca...


    It’s also confirmed in Leopold Engel’s Geschichte des Illuminaten-Ordens, The event prompted a priest, Solonus Berger to say:

    “All freemasons are rascals, and all rascals are freemasons. The lightning has revealed this abomination.” (source: Les Illumines de Baviere, horrible translation mine.
    )

    PS: ML I edited my post, this 3-head monster with the body of a spider would be in the 13° of Scottish Rite, Royal Arch of Solomon.

    I’m also interested in the scorpion, is there a scorpion in mason symbolism?



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


    I ran into this legend before because a similar story is told for the Protocols of Zion, that lightning legend is fictional. However the fact that the Illuminatus Lanz got stuck by lightning and compromizing papers were discovered on him isn’t fictional.


    Please re-read the following on the page that you linked to:



    As an example of the mythology that surrounds the history of the Illuminati, note that Barruel claimed that Lanz, an Illuminati courier and apostate priest, was struck by lightning, thus revealing Weishaupt's papers to the authorities, but this does not appear to be substantiated. This error was widely reprinted and enlarged on by subsequent anti-masons whose lack of research and disdain for historical accuracy has lead them to confuse Johann Jakob Lanz (d.1785), a non-Illuminati secular priest in Erding, and friend of Weishaupt, with Franz Georg Lang, a court advisor in Eichstätt who was active in the Illuminati under the name Tamerlan.
    Source:


    as quote on:
    freemasonry.bcy.ca...



    I edited my post, this 3-head monster with the body of a spider would be in the 13° of Scottish Rite, Royal Arch of Solomon.


    There are neither monsters, nor spiders, nor anything with three heads in the 13° of the Scottish Rite, nor any other degree of the Rite. The same can be said of the Royal Arch Degree in the York Rite, as well as the other York degrees.


    I’m also interested in the scorpion, is there a scorpion in mason symbolism?


    In the 26° and 28° of the Scottish Rite (the 26th is known both as Knight of the Brazen Serpent and Sufi Master, while the 28th is Prince Adept), 12 columns are shown, each denoting one of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, as well as one of the Constellations of the Zodiac. The Column representing Scorpio has a painting of a scorpion on it.

    [edit on 6-4-2006 by Masonic Light]



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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    I think the debate is if it was Johann Jakob Lanz or Franz Georg Lang that was struck, and whether he was Illuminati or not. The fact that a friend of Wieshaupt was indeed zapped while carrying Illuminati paper is confirmed by Weishaupt (which I’ve quoted above) And again in Hegel’s book., I’ll research it more tomorrow if this is unsatisfactory.

    That’s reassuring about spiders, I hate spiders.



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    I think the debate is if it was Johann Jakob Lanz or Franz Georg Lang that was struck, and whether he was Illuminati or not. The fact that a friend of Wieshaupt was indeed zapped while carrying Illuminati paper is confirmed by Weishaupt (which I’ve quoted above) And again in Hegel’s book., I’ll research it more tomorrow if this is unsatisfactory.


    I'll look into it too. The way I read it is that Lanz, who was not a member of the Illuminati, was struck. Since he was not a member of the Illuminati, he certainly wouldn't have been carrying around their top secret papers. Lang, who was a member of the Illuminati and who did have possession of documents, lived happily ever after. The article also confirms that the documents in question were seized during raids by the fuzz, not discovered on a corpse.


    That’s reassuring about spiders, I hate spiders.


    Ditto. The accusation that Masons worship a god called Jabulon seems to have originated with Walter Hannah's book "Darkness Visible". This was supposedly a combination of the words "Jah", "Ba'al", and "On", which were supposed to be the names of three different deities.

    This rumor spread throughout anti-Masonic circles until some wiseacre decided to go one up, and claim that Jabulon was a three-headed god. However, the three-headed spider thing appears to be a new one, as I've never heard that one before.

    But, in any case, Masons do not worship a god named Jabulon, be he three-headed or otherwise. After all, everyone knows we prefer Baphomet by far!



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    I think the debate is if it was Johann Jakob Lanz or Franz Georg Lang that was struck, and whether he was Illuminati or not. The fact that a friend of Wieshaupt was indeed zapped while carrying Illuminati paper is confirmed by Weishaupt (which I’ve quoted above) And again in Hegel’s book., I’ll research it more tomorrow if this is unsatisfactory.

    That’s reassuring about spiders, I hate spiders.


    Speaking of spiders, I came across this image from the Bohemian Grove:



    Any thoughts? Are they talking about the insect or something else? Sounds like witchcraft language.

    [edit on 6-4-2006 by eudaimonia]



    posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 06:31 PM
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    Originally posted by stalkingwolf
    An example: If you enter a museum that is posted NO Pictures and proceed
    to take pictures anyway you can be arrested , tried, and sent to state prison( and hopefully housed with bubba the booty bandit) .


    Are you saying that you think some one should be imprisoned for taking a photograph in a museum if theyre told not to! Ahh youre not a magistrate are you, cause if you are i promise to pay those parking fines right away.



    Originally posted by stalkingwolf
    So what breed of Satanist are you?


    And this just doesnt deserve comment..



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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    Originally posted by eudaimonia


    Speaking of spiders, I came across this image from the Bohemian Grove:



    Any thoughts? Are they talking about the insect or something else? Sounds like witchcraft language.


    It's a quote from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". In the Bohemian Grove, it supposedly means that people shouldn't use their Grove privileges to network for business or political purposes, but should be there only out of interest in the arts.



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 08:33 AM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    Ferdinand was initiated in Lodge no. 2420, England. (unconfirmed)


    I can give you some more information about this.

    Ferdinand de Rothchild Lodge No. 2420 was founded in 1891 in Buckinghamshire, close to Rothchilds home at Waddesdon. It was common in those days to name lodges after famous local people, but also common to name lodges after famous freemasons, so this doesn't really tell us whether he was a freemason or not.

    As Rothschild died in 1898 he would have had just seven years at the end of his life to have been initiated into the lodge that took his name.

    I'll see if I can find out anything more about his possible membership.



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 08:45 AM
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    Originally posted by Masonic Light

    Originally posted by eudaimonia


    Speaking of spiders, I came across this image from the Bohemian Grove:



    Any thoughts? Are they talking about the insect or something else? Sounds like witchcraft language.


    It's a quote from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". In the Bohemian Grove, it supposedly means that people shouldn't use their Grove privileges to network for business or political purposes, but should be there only out of interest in the arts.



    I was going to suggest maybe EA Poe, Oh what a tangled web we weave.....




    Sounds like witchcraft language.
    exactly what language would that be? I have known many Witches
    from many parts of the world. The closest thing I have run across
    to a universal language used by practitioners of a belief system is
    latin used by the RCC.


    Are you saying that you think some one should be imprisoned for taking a photograph in a museum if theyre told not to!

    It is not my place to determine if someone should be imprisoned for the offense.
    that is the responsibility of the legal system in the particular area the offense occurred.

    What I said was that they COULD be arrested and imprisoned for the offense . Much
    has to do with the Location involved, circumstances at the time, and many other factors.

    The thing to remember is you ( general you) are on private property.



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 09:01 AM
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    Looks like they were both Illuminati anyway… Here's a list of the original Bavarian Illuminati members...


    x = Mitgliedschaft gesichert: ohne Rücksicht auf Dauer und Grad der Zugehörigkeit
    xx = Mitgliedschaft ungesichert

    [clip]

    x Lang, Franz Georg, Hofrat in Eidistatt [Tamerlan], 32, 38, 227 f.,233
    x Lang, Joh. Adam, Jurist in Mainz, später Klubmitglied [Hugo Grotius], 61
    x Lanz, Joh. Jakob, Weltpriester in Erding [Sokrates], 89,

    source: Der Geheimbund der Illuminaten

    quoted on:

    freemasonry.bcy.ca...



    Looks like the BC lodge might have some amending to do. Can someone tranlaslate Mitgliedschaft gesichert: and Mitgliedschaft ungesichert please?

    Still no confirmation if Lanz/Lang was carrying anything when he was stuck. I assume that when Adam referred to being a hypocrite, (previous quote) that’s what he met. I’ll look for confirmation on this too…

    ML Anselm Rothschild was in Vienna, (not Paris) were Jews not accepted as masons there too?

    Thank you Trinityman, that would be awesome.



    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    Looks like they were both Illuminati anyway… Here's a list of the original Bavarian Illuminati members...



    x Lang, Franz Georg, Hofrat in Eidistatt [Tamerlan], 32, 38, 227 f.,233
    x Lang, Joh. Adam, Jurist in Mainz, später Klubmitglied [Hugo Grotius], 61
    x Lanz, Joh. Jakob, Weltpriester in Erding [Sokrates], 89,



    Looks like the BC lodge might have some amending to do.


    I can't read German, but I think this is a list of those whom Barruel claimed to be Illuminati in his book, but we'll need someone who speaks German to clear it up for us.


    ML Anselm Rothschild was in Vienna, (not Paris) were Jews not accepted as masons there too?


    Your original post quoted a claim that Anselm and another of his brothers were members of the French Supreme Council. Not only would they not have qualified at the time, but the timeline doesn't appear to work, as there were no regular Supreme Councils in either France nor Vienna at that point. There were in existence several Chapters of Rose Croix and Councils of Princes of Jerusalem, as well as a Council of the Rite of Perfection in old Paree, but these held to the Templar/Christian tradition.


    [edit on 7-4-2006 by Masonic Light]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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    I really hope we get a German speaker on here to clear this up. I think this list is larger than the one given by Barruel, so I doubt it’s the same. Remains to be seen….

    What year did the Supreme Council of France began. I’d like to permanently put to rest the James and Anselm as Supreme Council claim. Anselm died in 1855. James died in 1868.

    (But do supreme councils regularly meet as a Lodge?, It seems members of the 33° degree are spread out throughout the US. Maybe the Rothschilds were traveling masons?)

    Outside the conspiracy world the Rothschild are highly regarded members of the business community. (even within the conspiracy world there is a kind of fascination with the name). Once the Lodge is identified they will happily confirmed if a Rothschild was a member of their Lodge.


    Originally posted by Masonic Light
    as one of the Constellations of the Zodiac.


    So the scorpion is one of 12 possibilities, yet the author chooses this one.
    Although the author doesn’t hide his slant, after all the opening sentence is:

    Originally posted by eudaimonia “All over the world there are people, who call themselves freemasons and believe they are spreading the light, but they are actually very much afraid of the light.”


    I still encourage everyone to watch it, if only for the beautiful scenery.


    About the Caduceus mentioned earlier, didn’t Zecharia Sitchin make links between the Caduceus and knowledge of DNA in Sumerian times?

    EDIT:
    I found an excerpt (a large one) of one of the Jüri Lina’s book (Under the Sign of the scorpion)

    Sorry it’s about Lenin again…



    Lenin was a freemason of the 31st degree (Grand Inspecteur Inquisiteur Commandeur) and a member of the lodge Art et Travail in Switzerland and France. (Oleg Platonov, "Russia's Crown of Thorns: The Secret History of Freemasonry", Moscow, 2000, part II, p. 417.)



    Alexander Galpern, then secretary of the Masonic Supreme Council, confirmed in 1916 that there were Bolsheviks among the freemasons. I can further mention Nikolai Sukhanov (actually Himmer) and N. Sokolov

    source: www.geocities.com...


    Note: it could be a case of anti-Masonic authors quoting each other.

    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 01:00 PM
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    This is from René Le Forestier’s The Bavarian Illuminati. I hope masons and non-masons can consider it as a authorative source on the Bavarian Illuminati. This book is his doctoral thesis written in 1915. He is a scholar and often quoted on Masonic sites. (such as BC lodge) He also wrote “La Franc-Maçonnerie templière et occultiste aux XVIIIe et XIXe”.

    Not only does Le Forestier confirms the Lang legend (yes Lang) He also tells us the content of the letter found on Lang’s body.

    This is a translated excerpt from “Illuminés de Bavière”

    Until then, the Bavarian Government had never established that the Illuminati had disobeyed any of its Edicts. They attributed to Providence a lightning bolt who gave them an initial proof.

    On the 10th of July 1785, The Abbot Jacob Lang
    who was traveling to Silesia, visited Weishaupt in Ratisbon. He was stuck down by lightning while riding with Wesihaupt around the city. The body was deposited at the Chapel of St-Emmeran and documents were discovered on his body. One of the paper appeared to be compromising. A Benedictine, Roman Zirngibul alerted Gaspart de Lippert of the Bavarian Government, who in turn, alerted Kreitmayer.

    The compromising document consisted of:


    Visit during your voyages visit as many Lodges as possible. And carefully note the following points:

    1. The name of the Lodge and the city were it’s located.

    2. The name of the WM, the SW and the JW and any influent members.
    (the terms used are “Maitre en Chaire” and 2 wardens “Surveillant”)

    3. The system to which they belong.

    4. How ancient is this system?

    5. What way is this system directed?

    6. What degree are conferred over the symbolic degrees.

    7. Do they know the Illuminated system?

    8. What do they think of it?

    9. What do they think about the pursuits against masonry in Bavaria and who they think is responsible?

    10. What do they think about the Loyalists and the Jesuits?

    Do not reveal yourself as an Illuminati so that you can better study the people’s opinions.

    With this paper was also a more complete list of Illuminati membership, which the Bavarian government added to their list previously obtained from Cosandey and Renner.

    The Bavarian government saw in these instructions, handwritten by Costanzo, proof that the Illuminati was still involved in Masonic works.

    Source: René Le Forestier, Illuminés de Bavière, 1915 : translated by CN23


    I hope the translation is clear, I could have made some mistakes along the way. Although it doesn’t say that Lang was an Illuminati. He was nevertheless entrusted with some important Illuminati papers. I think the Illuminati had seals, so these documents could have been sealed and Lang could have been a simple carrier, (as friend of Weishaupt) not an Illuminati himself.

    Also note that he says nothing about letters to the Grand Lodge of France.


    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]


    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    What year did the Supreme Council of France began. I’d like to permanently put to rest the James and Anselm as Supreme Council claim. Anselm died in 1855. James died in 1868.


    The Supreme Council of France was organized in 1804. I thought those Rothschild dudes were older.


    (But do supreme councils regularly meet as a Lodge?, It seems members of the 33° degree are spread out throughout the US. Maybe the Rothschilds were traveling masons?)


    The Supreme Council of the Southern Jurisdiction, USA, meets once every two years, in October of every odd year. I'm not sure about France.


    Outside the conspiracy world the Rothschild are highly regarded members of the business community. (even within the conspiracy world there is a kind of fascination with the name). Once the Lodge is identified they will happily confirmed if a Rothschild was a member of their Lodge.


    Agreed. If they were Masons, no doubt their Mother Lodges would be proud of the fact.



    So the scorpion is one of 12 possibilities, yet the author chooses this one.
    Although the author doesn’t hide his slant, after all the opening sentence is:
    “All over the world there are people, who call themselves freemasons and believe they are spreading the light, but they are actually very much afraid of the light.”


    As the Apostle John once wrote: The light shineth in darkness, though the darkness comprehendeth it not.


    About the Caduceus mentioned earlier, didn’t Zecharia Sitchin make links between the Caduceus and knowledge of DNA in Sumerian times?


    Yikes, on that one, I have no idea. I do believe that some of the ancient mystics had at least an intuitive knowledge of DNA, due the serpent symbolism they used in religion, and other spiral symbols in regards to infinity and the perpetuation of life.


    EDIT:
    I found an excerpt (a large one) of one of the Jüri Lina’s book (Under the Sign of the scorpion)

    Sorry it’s about Lenin again…



    Lenin was a freemason of the 31st degree (Grand Inspecteur Inquisiteur Commandeur) and a member of the lodge Art et Travail in Switzerland and France. (Oleg Platonov, "Russia's Crown of Thorns: The Secret History of Freemasonry", Moscow, 2000, part II, p. 417.)



    Alexander Galpern, then secretary of the Masonic Supreme Council, confirmed in 1916 that there were Bolsheviks among the freemasons. I can further mention Nikolai Sukhanov (actually Himmer) and N. Sokolov

    source: www.geocities.com...


    Note: it could be a case of anti-Masonic authors quoting each other.


    Perhaps. I know for a fact that Vladimir Illych Lenin was never a Mason, not even an irregular one. I've got nothing against him personally: I admire him for some things, and don't admire him for others. He considered Freemasonry a club for liberals, and was opposed to such an organization in the Soviet state, as he considered liberals defenders of capitalism. The only Bolshevik leader who ever had a real interest in Masonry was Trotsky, although he never joined.

    The same website you quoted also falsely claims that Lenin, Zinoviev, Trotsky, and the other Old Guard leaders were members of B'nai B'rith.

    [edit on 7-4-2006 by Masonic Light]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


    Not only does Le Forestier confirms the Lang legend (yes Lang) He also tells us the content of the letter found on Lang’s body.



    As noted above, it was Lanz, not Lang, that fell to lightning; but it was Lang, not Lanz, who was a member of the Illuminati. According to British Columbia website that you cited earlier, documents were seized by the police in a police raid on Lang's home, but were not found on Lanz, who was not a member although Barruel claimed he was.



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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    This is the strangest thing; Le Forestier seems to have merge the names (or someone previously,) together. Whoever he is talking about he is talking about a priest. And he doesn’t confirmed if this priest was Illuminati. (No wonder there’s so much confusion), however the story above is true, and compromising documents were found on the priest’s dead body. (see tranlation above)

    IMO, Le Forestier is more reliable than Barruel, if Barruel turns out to be the original author of the list.


    [edit on 7/4/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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    ...



    [edit on 7-4-2006 by Tamahu]



    posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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    ...

    [edit on 7-4-2006 by Tamahu]






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