Well, definitive proof that prayer does not help the sick...

Im not much of a religious man, but when I was faced with the death of family members I found myself looking to prayers. Not for it to heal those who are sick, but for myself and the individual to come to peace with themselves and what is in front of them.

If a prayer will allow a man to come to grips with the fact death is an inevitable reality in his near future, then I would deffinately say it helps.

Were not looking for a cure to cancer or aids in a prayer, were looking to beable to smile with that last breath.

ProtOn -

No throwing scripture from me.

I agree that that is discrimination to not let them into the church, but that is the way that that church is structured. And yes, I do agree that many christians do not believe as deeply in the bible as they should and their actions bear that out.

Again, I can only go back to my statement that I am responsible for me and my relationship with God.

My main reason for writing here again is that I am concerned for you that you are so hardened in your heart against good christians from what sounds like many bad experiences in your life that you may miss the one or two people somewhere around you that you might find are good christians.

There was an email floating around for a while about "praying to God to show me a sign that he is there."

In summary, "I brushed away the beautiful butterfly on my shoulder, I swatted at the bee that landing on the colorful flowers in my garden, etc. etc.

When we live in a beautiful place, we often tend to overlook the beauty around us and it all looks the same.

Cheers,

JDub

How, how how could I have known that you were not referring to me?? It wasn't that your response was taken out of context, it was actually given out of context! The first three words you wrote were "as I stated", however this was the first time I had ever seen you state this??

If you didn't notice, I was replying to this quote. It shouldn't be that difficult to understand why I said what I said when I quoted what I quoted and what I replied to that quote.

"Your anger over "something" is evident just by your two responses I've read here in this post and in another religious area. "

It should have been very clear then.

So let's get back on track please and if you do choose to insult, please try not to suggest it toward some unknown group you call "those" because I seriously had no idea who you were referring to. That's what I was trying to relay to you.

I'm sorry if you feel that I'm insulting. But if you've read correctly, alot of these insult's your refering to are not really directed at you personally. My opinion's/observation's of religous attitude's may be considered insulting, I don't think they are though. Alot of what I see is most definatley born if ignorance or lack of knowledge.

I chose not to go into details about the persons prayer because there was no relavence, really. Does it matter what the prayer was???? All that matters is that I happened to witness the prayer "aloud" and then witness the prayer being anwered a moment later, and I was in awe. And being the thread topic, I thought it was valid to share that with you guys. It's not the first time, it's just the most recent experience I've witnessed to an answered prayer.

No, it doesn't matter what the prayer was. I never did ask about the prayer itself. I asked about the person's condition. I was just curious about the PERSON'S CONDITION. Where are you getting prayer in this statement?

"What was the problem with your family member? Can you explain more about it? "

Again, in order to NOT take what you say out of context can you please elaborate on what "people" you are referring to?? If your referring to me then say so, if you are referring to John Doe or his committee then say so.

Seeing as how I've implied that you personally are taking thing's out of context and showing place where you have, such as above, thing's should be pretty clear. Why are you so confused on this???

What attitude is that? Talk about taking things out of context. Perhaps you need to take a breather and then re-read all the things I've stated in this post topic and the one you are bringing into this one. I think that your shere anger is causing you to jump into something and put words where they are not without actually reading what I'm saying. Then you bring another memeber into it, "Sun Matrix" and again, I have no idea of what you have going on with that person?? So why is it brought up?

Your attitude towards not accepting or how you disagree with the "acts" gay people do. If you really want I can quote you, only if you feel it's really necessary. I am reading what your saying. I understand what your saying, to a point. I don't really understand your opinion on gay people, why you hold your views the way you do. You'd really have to read a few discussion's me and Sun had to understand. He was just an example of someone who love's to take thing's out of context. It's like a hobby of his or something.

I'll ask you again, what is your intention? Do you want to listen to me talk to you about believing prayer and debate with me cordially or do you want to throw a bunch of animosity at me which makes me think "what are you on about"??

I did state what my intention was didn't I? Reread if needed. I did ask a question for discussion, you didn't want to answer it. Fine, whatever. You don't have to if you don't want too. Not much debate on prayer is going to get done anyways if we have to keep going back and forth like this.

Btw, if a voice told me to jump off a bridge, I'd know it wasn't a voice of reason therefore no, I would not heed to it.

I'm almost tempted to quote various verses from the bible... Almost.

And I never stated that prayer was a cure all. I will say it again, I will pray and have faith whether my prayers are answered or not.

Never did state that was your personal belief in prayer.

And I will remain adament that my prayers are not in vain and I'll certainly share that view with others, such as you.

Your entitled to do so. I'm also entidled to show or point out that prayer is just as effective as the placebo effect and one shouldn't put TOO MUCH faith into it. We're all entitled to our opinion's, even if they disagree.

Originally posted by BlueTileSpook
My main reason for writing here again is that I am concerned for you that you are so hardened in your heart against good christians from what sounds like many bad experiences in your life that you may miss the one or two people somewhere around you that you might find are good christians.

My heart isn't "hardened" against good christian's. I just haven't met any yet. None that I personally know and can say "Hey, now there's a good guy". My main dealing with religous people has been pretty awfull, and so my attitutde has become pretty harsh towards those belief systems. To me, it looks like nothing more then a tool used for personal benefits, not for the good it's supposed to be teaching.